Oppressed white farmers occupy federal building in Oregon

[TuHolmes]

Not even sure why people are bringing up sexual orientation. Lots of us white guys are gay (no homo) and they tend to do very well financially.

Ask Tom... He brought it up.

And finally changing demographics.  White heterosexual males have been the majority for all of this country's history, but that is changing.  Already changed in places like California.  White militia types are scared as shit of that.

I didn't see the point he was making either, which is why I inquired as to a clarification.

[240 is Back]

Whose building is it?  It's a federal building meaning it belongs to "the people".  These men are "the people" and they are addressing grievances against the government. 

They want to gain a larger market share of the cattle industry.

They want to use govt lands to gain a competitive advantage.

Even if they *could* use it because they paid for it, the biggest issue is now they're no longer letting OTHERS use it. 

The took over a federal building.  They refuse to let others come close.  They said they'll kill people.  They're not just using their share, they're taking it all.  OTHER taxpayers can't use it now either, people who work there are deprived of it. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

They want to gain a larger market share of the cattle industry.

They want to use govt lands to gain a competitive advantage.

Even if they *could* use it because they paid for it, the biggest issue is now they're no longer letting OTHERS use it. 

The took over a federal building.  They refuse to let others come close.  They said they'll kill people.  They're not just using their share, they're taking it all.  OTHER taxpayers can't use it now either, people who work there are deprived of it. 

[Kazan]

They want to gain a larger market share of the cattle industry.

They want to use govt lands to gain a competitive advantage.

Even if they *could* use it because they paid for it, the biggest issue is now they're no longer letting OTHERS use it. 

The took over a federal building.  They refuse to let others come close.  They said they'll kill people.  They're not just using their share, they're taking it all.  OTHER taxpayers can't use it now either, people who work there are deprived of it. 

Yep get that narrative out there, so when .gov goes in hot, it will all look justified.

[TuHolmes]

Yep get that narrative out there, so when .gov goes in hot, it will all look justified.

Serious question to you Kazan.

Do you feel they are justified in their actions?

While I believe in freedoms, if someone is found guilty of a crime, should people be allowed to intercede on their behalf to keep them from dealing with punishment?

[timfogarty]

Ask Tom... He brought it up.

Please, call me Tim

I didn't see the point he was making either, which is why I inquired as to a clarification.

From where I sit, the radical right seems to be mostly older white christian heterosexual males.  They seem to fear "others" the most.  Their numbers are dwindling because 1) they're old and dying off, and 2) everyone else is becoming more populace.

the original point of this thread was to point out the hypocrisy of the news coverage and of the way the authorities are dealing with it.  If the group that had occupied the federal building with their assault weapons been anyone other than white heterosexual males, it would be on cable news non stop, and the authorities would have stormed the building already.

Let me throw out this definition of White Privilege: Being pulled over by a traffic cop and not fearing that you will be harassed, injured, or killed.  Even though I'm white and male, that I'm not heterosexual, from past experiences, I don't trust the police.  I understand the BLM movement well.

White Privilege is taking over a government building with assault rifles and surviving to see the next day.

[timfogarty]

Yep get that narrative out there, so when .gov goes in hot, it will all look justified.

Based on what happened at the Bundy ranch two years ago, you really think .gov will not just simply wait them out?

Wait them out is the correct response.  Too bad police won't do that with non whites.

[SaintAnger]

Imagine if blacks had the means and balls to do something like this.  Fighter jets would have been scrambled.

[_aj_]

Serious question to you Kazan.

Do you feel they are justified in their actions?

While I believe in freedoms, if someone is found guilty of a crime, should people be allowed to intercede on their behalf to keep them from dealing with punishment?

Double jeopardy is an actual thing in jurisprudence. Citizens should be free and ENCOURAGED to resist anti-Constitutional actions made by their government. It's the whole fucking point of the second amendment.

[_aj_]

Imagine if blacks had the means and balls to do something like this.  Fighter jets would have been scrambled.

Utter bulkshit.

[TuHolmes]

Please, call me Tim

From where I sit, the radical right seems to be mostly older white christian heterosexual males.  They seem to fear "others" the most.  Their numbers are dwindling because 1) they're old and dying off, and 2) everyone else is becoming more populace.

the original point of this thread was to point out the hypocrisy of the news coverage and of the way the authorities are dealing with it.  If the group that had occupied the federal building with their assault weapons been anyone other than white heterosexual males, it would be on cable news non stop, and the authorities would have stormed the building already.

Let me throw out this definition of White Privilege: Being pulled over by a traffic cop and not fearing that you will be harassed, injured, or killed.  Even though I'm white and male, that I'm not heterosexual, from past experiences, I don't trust the police.  I understand the BLM movement well.

My apologies Tim,

Are you claiming that if you are pulled over at a traffic stop that you fear for your life because the police can tell you are gay?

You will have to excuse me if I don't exactly buy what you're selling there.

The BLM groups would laugh in your face for saying that.

Double jeopardy is an actual thing in jurisprudence. Citizens should be free and ENCOURAGED to resist anti-Constitutional actions made by their government. It's the whole fucking point of the second amendment.

I don't believe this is a double jeopardy situation. The Judge handed down a sentence that he could not legally do. I do believe this is a problem, but there are minimum sentences (I don't agree with minimum sentences personally) and they legally should have to serve the full 5 years.

No one seemed to do this over minimum sentences for drug possessions and what not.

Now, while I don't agree with these minimum sentence statutes, that is not the same as "Double Jeopardy". These people are not being tried for the same crime twice. They are being forced to complete the minimum sentence that the law requires.

[timfogarty]

Are you claiming that if you are pulled over at a traffic stop that you fear for your life because the police can tell you are gay?

My interaction with police since I came out in 1982 have convinced me that police are not to be trusted.  and I'd say that most gay guys, certainly those over a certain age, would say the same thing.  BLM groups understand that perfectly.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Please, call me Tim

From where I sit, the radical right seems to be mostly older white christian heterosexual males.  They seem to fear "others" the most.  Their numbers are dwindling because 1) they're old and dying off, and 2) everyone else is becoming more populace.

the original point of this thread was to point out the hypocrisy of the news coverage and of the way the authorities are dealing with it.  If the group that had occupied the federal building with their assault weapons been anyone other than white heterosexual males, it would be on cable news non stop, and the authorities would have stormed the building already.

Let me throw out this definition of White Privilege: Being pulled over by a traffic cop and not fearing that you will be harassed, injured, or killed.  Even though I'm white and male, that I'm not heterosexual, from past experiences, I don't trust the police.  I understand the BLM movement well.

White Privilege is taking over a government building with assault rifles and surviving to see the next day.

is this " Black Privilege " in action? Armed with " assault rifles " in front of a police station and not a single one of them gunned down. 

Let me throw out this definition of White Privilege: Being pulled over by a traffic cop and not fearing that you will be harassed, injured, or killed.

My " White privilege " didn't save me when a white cop pulled me over , mistook my sun glasses for a gun and pointed his firearm at my head while screaming for me to get out of the car. Oh and it didn't save me when a Massachusetts State trooper threatened to kill me.

[Kazan]

Serious question to you Kazan.

Do you feel they are justified in their actions?

While I believe in freedoms, if someone is found guilty of a crime, should people be allowed to intercede on their behalf to keep them from dealing with punishment?

Yes, the individuals at the root of all this were arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced, served their time and were released - as per the law.

It's .gov that decided to haul them back in and make them serve more time.

[mr.turbo]

a group of "terrorists" according Harry Reid, armed to the teeth, holed up in a gubment building.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/politics/reid-calls-bundy-supporters-domestic-terrorists

they're upset because two of their colleagues were actually convicted of terrorism and they don't want them incarcerated.

http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison


nobody is reporting it as terror though?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/03/why-arent-we-calling-the-oregon-militia-terrorists/

 


looking forward to the FBI statement on this matter.

I expect swift action will be taken against this threat!

[TuHolmes]

My interaction with police since I came out in 1982 have convinced me that police are not to be trusted.  and I'd say that most gay guys, certainly those over a certain age, would say the same thing.  BLM groups understand that perfectly.

So again, I ask you.

Can a cop tell you are gay when you are being pulled over or stopped for some reason?

Do you believe that it equates to being instantly identified as black?

[timfogarty]

My " White privilege " didn't save me when a white cop pulled me over , mistook my sun glasses for a gun and pointed his firearm at my head while screaming for me to get out of the car. Oh and it didn't save me when a Massachusetts State trooper threatened to kill me.

you lived to tell about it.

Sandra Bland was pulled over for a traffic stop (one that the car video showed to be completely bogus), arrested when she should have only gotten a citation, and ended up dead in the jail cell.  The Grand Jury declined to indict.

[TuHolmes]

Yes, the individuals at the root of all this were arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced, served their time and were released - as per the law.

It's .gov that decided to haul them back in and make them serve more time.

But they didn't.

They were convicted of terrorism and there is a minimum time of 5 years which they did not serve.

The Judge did not have ability to give them a lighter sentence due to guidelines and requirements. So this was not done "as per the law".

[timfogarty]

Do you believe that it equates to being instantly identified as black?

No, I can blend in, so my life is not in danger as much as other minorities.  

But even white women get harassed by police, so I'm sure some feel trepidation when being pulled over.

And it is not just white police officers, but all. The War On Terror™ has turned all police into paramilitary groups.  They think they're in the Marine Corp with the Us vs Them feeling cranked up even more.  They no longer know how to deescalate a situation.  God help you if you ever feel the need to call the police for a family member with mental health issues, especially if you're not white.

[Kazan]

But they didn't.

They were convicted of terrorism and there is a minimum time of 5 years which they did not serve.

The Judge did not have ability to give them a lighter sentence due to guidelines and requirements. So this was not done "as per the law".

Well then the sentence should have been contested at the time, not a year and half later. That is bullshit and equivalent to double jeopardy. I like how .gov starts charging people with terrorism, that is a very subjective term.

[TuHolmes]

No, I can blend in, so my life is not in danger as much as other minorities.  

But even white women get harassed by police, so I'm sure some feel trepidation when being pulled over.

And it is not just white police officers, but all. The War On Terror™ has turned all police into paramilitary groups.  They think they're in the Marine Corp with the Us vs Them feeling cranked up even more.  They no longer know how to deescalate a situation.  God help you if you ever feel the need to call the police for a family member with mental health issues, especially if you're not white.

Understand, I'm not protecting police officers that do bad things.

I am just specifically saying that I don't think the police equate being gay in the same way the police equate being black, especially in regards to someone being able to immediately determine a reason to be bigoted towards them.

[NarcissisticDeity]

you lived to tell about it.

Sandra Bland was pulled over for a traffic stop (one that the car video showed to be completely bogus), arrested when she should have only gotten a citation, and ended up dead in the jail cell.  The Grand Jury declined to indict.

you lived to tell about it.

Irrelevant " white privilege " should have prevented me from even getting pulled over in the first place.    Again your claim Let me throw out this definition of White Privilege: Being pulled over by a traffic cop and not fearing that you will be harassed, injured, or killed

Sandra Bland was pulled over for a traffic stop (one that the car video showed to be completely bogus), arrested when she should have only gotten a citation, and ended up dead in the jail cell.  The Grand Jury declined to indict.

Yes the conspiracy  She got pulled over maybe it was bogus or not , she decided where that interaction went , if she just shut her mouth she could have driven off with just a ticket. The cop was a complete dick for sure but she wanted to test him , she got what she wanted. And I love how you imply she ' ended up dead in the jail cell " NO , Tim , She KILLED herself in the jail cell. Recall all the conspiracy theories? She was dead already when they took her mug shot? They " killed " her? There was no footage of her alive? 

I've encountered some MAJOR asshole cops and some cool ones. These matters aren't as black & white as people paint them out to be.

[mr.turbo]

On Sunday, Sheriff Ward issued a longer statement that said, in part:

“These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers, when in reality these men had alternative motives to attempt to over throw the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States.

“We are currently working jointly with several organizations to make sure the citizens of Harney County are safe and this issue is resolved as quickly and peaceful as possible. At this time we do not have any information that any other areas in Harney County are in immediate danger.

“We ask that people stay away from the refuge for their safety. We also ask that if anyone sees any of these individuals in the area to please contact law enforcement and do not confront the individuals themselves. …”

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-militia-oregon-20160103-story.html

 

[Walter Sobchak]

you lived to tell about it.

Sandra Bland was pulled over for a traffic stop (one that the car video showed to be completely bogus), arrested when she should have only gotten a citation, and ended up dead in the jail cell.  The Grand Jury declined to indict.

Not an accurate description of what occurred.

Did Ms. Bland or her family post bail so she wouldn't be held in jail?

Not a very good example. She brought about her charges and arrest, she resisted, she was charged, her family wanted nothing to do with her because she was psychotic, and then she killed herself.

[chaos]

11 pages?