Author Topic: moderately heavy  (Read 4107 times)

NoCalBbEr

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moderately heavy
« on: March 10, 2006, 05:32:03 PM »
Hey guys
I was wondering, can you gain the same kind of mass and size by using moderate to heavy weights?? I'm one of those guys that go extramely heavy everytime I'm in the gym.. I'm getting worried about getting  injuries..or do i have to keep pushing it to balls to the walls??

Thx

Arnold jr

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2006, 06:51:27 PM »
Hey guys
I was wondering, can you gain the same kind of mass and size by using moderate to heavy weights?? I'm one of those guys that go extramely heavy everytime I'm in the gym.. I'm getting worried about getting  injuries..or do i have to keep pushing it to balls to the walls??

Thx
I find it more productive to go as heavy as I can, but at the same time keeping my rep rang in the 8-12 category. I will occasionally throw in a lower rep set, not often and normally nothing I can't get at least for 6 reps.

Jr. Yates

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2006, 06:53:34 PM »
I always try to incorperate a bit of power lifting in my bodybuilding routine...so on my last set of the core excersise for the day i will go heavy for a rep range of 2-4 for example back day my last set of deads will be super heavy...but i think its important to do a range of different exersises and feel the muscle contract as you do it.
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NoCalBbEr

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2006, 08:29:52 PM »
I dont  know if this is a good example bc hes  on gear but like how jay cutler trains. who watch how much weight he moves...

pumpster

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2006, 09:42:24 PM »
Use the same intensity but 8-12 reps using moderately heavy weights after a good warmup. It allows you to control the resistance better & get a better feel in the muscles while shifting the stress off the joints and lowering injury risk. As long as the weight's gradually increased over time, you'll get size increases that are as good or better. Lower reps are better for strength, moderate reps are better for tissue growth.

Coleman's a good example. Always keeps the reps moderate & rarely gets injured.

GoneAway

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2006, 11:11:22 PM »
Lower reps are better for strength, moderate reps are better for tissue growth.

Can you explain this some more? I thought strength and muscle size went hand in hand.

pumpster

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2006, 05:46:00 AM »
There's overlap between strength & size, but also some variance. The best combination for growth is strength gained  using moderate reps and moderately heavy weights. Below a certain threshold around 6 reps, the increased weight puts inordinately more stress on the connective tissues like ligaments and joints, and shifts the priority of muscle fiber recruitement. Muscle has both high and low twitch fiber; extreme rep ranges enlist these two extremes.

A moderate number of reps engages a wider variety of muscle fiber, and generates higher production of lactic acid. Intuitively you might notice that there is less of a burn from doing lower reps, which is symptomatic of that. That then leads to differences in testosterone secretions that are associated with tissue growth.

Specifically, from studies:

Although heavy resistance does innervate high threshold motor units, serum testosterone levels are increased through moderate to high volume of exercises. This is achieved through multiple sets, exercises, and a moderate repetition range (around 8-10 repetitions), with short rest intervals (between 30 seconds to 1 minute).

For gains in muscular size, smaller motor units need to be recruited first in each set of exercise. As the set progresses in intensity, larger units will then be recruited. If the low threshold motor units are inhibited to recruit the high threshold motor units for explosive movements (as in powerlifting), the low threshold units that are not activated will not undergo hormonal adaptations.

This is because of the size principle of muscle fiber recruitment. Since motor units are recruited in an orderly fashion (from low threshold to high) and can span a range of muscle fiber types (Type I and Type II), then a moderate range of repetitions must be used to recruit the entire spectrum of fibers. This recruitment pattern allows the full spectrum of fibers to adapt to the training by increasing sensitivity to circulating anabolic hormones.

After a muscle has been subjected to intense stress through maximal force contractions over a moderate repetition range, hormones begin the growth process and muscle remodeling. Growth hormone plays a vital role in adapting to the stress of resistance training. Growth hormone levels can be increased through resistance training through high intensity (10 repetitions coupled with heavy resistance) with three sets of each exercise (high total workload) and short, one minute rest periods. Once the levels are elevated, a cascade of events occur; decreased glucose utilization, increased amino acid transport across cell membranes, increased protein synthesis, increased utilization of fatty acids, increased lipolysis (fat breakdown), enhanced immune functions, and a promotion of compensatory renal hypertrophy.

Why Moderate Reps Stimulate Optimal Hypertrophy
Evidence suggests that moderate repetition sets provide an optimal stimulus for growth in the fast twitch fibers, while high repetition sets may optimize the hypertrophy process in slower twitch fibers.  Reasons follow.  First, sets which fall within a 1 to 5 repetition continuum will most likely cause the participant to fail due to neurological signaling problems before an optimal stimulus for muscle growth can be induced (1, 2).  Secondly moderate repetition sets (6-12) take full advantage of human recruiting systems.  In general, the nervous system will recruit lower threshold fibers first and enlist high threshold fibers progressively as the set continues on.  By the end of a set all available muscle cells have been brought into play (3).  Thirdly the release of anabolic hormones is highest after these types of sets (4, 5, 6, 7, 8).

A greater circulation of anabolic hormones in the body, results in greater adaptations to imposed demands. Interestingly enough, much evidence supports the postulate that lactic acid production can be very conducive to the release of hormones such as testosterone and growth hormone ( 3, 4, 5 ).  Lactic acid is a by-product of glycolysis (6).  This is the energy system that is used most heavily during 30-90 seconds of work.  Glycolysis is directed by a series of enzymes, which comprise what is known as a chemical pathway.  The enzyme lactate dehydrogenase is more active than any enzyme in the pathway.  Therefore the more the participant relies on this pathway, the greater the build up of lactate will be.  Hakkinen et al.  found that blood lactate concentration during exercise correlated significantly (P < 0.01) with the increase in serum GH concentration.  While Lu et al. in the Journal of Sports medicine found that increased plasma testosterone levels in males during exercise is at least partially a result of a direct stimulatory effect of lactate on the secretion of testosterone by increasing testicular cAMP production.  Consequently blood lactate levels rise highest in moderate sets, with moderate rest.  As opposed to low repetition, relatively high rest sets.

Power lifting type movements have a greater reliance on the creatine phosphate (PC) system, which is used for, extremely low repetition, high intensity sets.  Note that intensity in this light is in reference to percentage of the athlete’s one repetition maximum.  The PC system does not result in lactic acid production and as a result is frequently referred to as the A Lactic anaerobic system. 




NoCalBbEr

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2006, 10:38:15 AM »
AWESOME read. thx bro

GoneAway

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2006, 04:52:36 AM »
Thanks, pumpster.

monster triceps

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2006, 04:56:23 AM »
Come on pumpster, you could at the very least give credit to the person who wrote that.
Oh and by the way, Ronnie has injured his knees, shoulders, biceps, his legs, his back, ruptured a disk in his back and lastly his tricep.
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JPM

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2006, 08:35:50 AM »
M-Tri beat me to the punch. That's sounds like a white paper research grant you copied the info from. Weither theory or no, there are just as many, or more, papers out there that come to the opposite conclusion(s) that was issued in the paper/article you copied. If fact there are dozen's of reserch papers
 related to hypertrophy/strength and the stimulation/stress load/recovery adaptability of the human body all  backed up with serious lab research, where most all come to different findings. Exercise science has not approached being an exact science as yet. In other word, there is not one absolute method of working out for every one. Three reps can do for you what twenty reps can't and vice versa. Heavy, moderate or light is still a personal experiment for each of us.

No one can site Coleman as an example for everyone else. He, and the super pro's like him, are one in a millon  gentic mutations with a gifted  potentional for getting bigger and stronger. And with the chemically engineered aids used today, no mear mortal could even closly approach Coleman (or any other Pro) in the way of muscle mass and  development. Coleman has had major injuries, which seems to be overlooked by many. He is getting older now and I would question his general health in the near future. With those enlarged interinal organs I would expect him and a few of the other Pro's, to implode as time goes by.

My own personal view (for what it's worth): I consider most Pro's and other top BB'er's in the same class as drug junkies.This is not a judgement, either good or bad on my part, just an observation.  If any one has seen most of these Pro's up close and personal and watched the way they really train you could be in for a very unpleasant surprise. No disresects to them but it's what it is. Good Luck.

pumpster

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2006, 11:37:51 AM »
LOL. Once again focusing on peripherals like white papers-focus on content, you idiot.

What's predictable is that some, JPM in particular, invariably have to check in and disagree with others in order to proffer the "last word"  ;). If you take a close look you'll see that this character then  rephrases things already said by others. Hard to notice because the prose are so F--- long-winded! Too funny.

You know what-I think I'll go with Coleman's experiences, over ANY of the arm chair know-alls here. What he's saying is in 100% agreement with my own experiences over the years by the way, as I've already said.

JPM on the other hand, goes with predictable (boring) stuff, nothing out of the box-nothing like that which would confuse him and his preconceptions.

His long-winded entreaties are also seriously lacking in brevity-part of effectively imparting knowledge is understanding how to present it in palatable, interesting ways, you old cout.

"Body-builders are druggies" - the kind of unasked for dumbass generalizations expected of a senior citizen fighting a losing battle with senility.  ;)


pumpchaser

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2006, 12:29:10 PM »
Genetics are the biggest thing no matter what. I seem to not be able to get me calves to grow no matter how hard I train them.  My father in law however has calves like a bodybuilder and has never lifted weights in his life. He said he did allot of cycling when he was young but has not been on a bike in probably 10 years. Pure Genetics!

pumpchaser

theworm

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2006, 01:09:46 PM »
Yes, look at Surge Nubret (sp?) he had a huge chest just like Arnold.  I read he used to do 20 sets of 200 pounds, doing 50 reps!  Then Arnold went heavy and had a big chest too.  Bottom line, do what works best for you.  I personally do not see how anyone can grow doing more reps of lighter weight.  I would do heavy, 6-8 reps...
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Hedgehog

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2006, 01:15:00 PM »
Three different types of muscle fibers.

Type I
Type IIa
Type IIx

The Type IIx and IIa are the biggest and strongest (fast twitch type fibers). Long distance runners needs a lot of Type I.

Go figure.

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JPM

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2006, 02:24:09 PM »
Yikes!....Seems as if Pumpster is having his usually MeltDown....poor guy.  Actually no disagreement offered on my part, just thoughts posted on a message board. Not all that important if any one agrees with them or not. Sorry Pumpsters may feel so threaten by anyone who may not be in lock step with his views. Hope he understands how foolish he tends to look a lot of the time. But than again, his post must be very important to him in some emotional way.

Wondering where  Pumpster would get the old cote & senior citizen thing, unless both of those things apply to himself. He does use fuzzy logic in his ideas though, kind of like he was nearing senility. And where does he get that  grumpy attitude,  like some old man would have.  Last time I checked my driver's licence I was still 33 year old.  But I do hope he will keep posting and include all those happy face logo's, their so mature.  Pumpster, good luck & God bless.

SideBar: Actually when Pumpster started to post on this board I thought he was some high school kid that just got in the bad habit of reading too many T&A muscle mag's and regurgitating whatever he read. Now I think he may be a  older gentleman who is going through his second childhood. The assistence home where he lives probably allows him to use the computer in the day room. He does get his diaper changed from time to time, the only time he is off line. 
 

stayhungry

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2006, 02:28:47 PM »
i agree with what most people have said here. BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT SIZE GAINS COME MOSTLY FROM YOUR DIET, EAT LOTS AND YOU WILL GAIN.

pumpster

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2006, 02:47:32 PM »
Quote
Seems as if Pumpster is having his usually MeltDown

LOL, more personal crap in lieu of content.


Quote
SIZE GAINS COME MOSTLY FROM YOUR DIET, EAT LOTS AND YOU WILL GAIN.
Only applies if other salient & required components are in place & effective.

Monster Triceps' opinions are immediately discredited with this crap:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=59266.0

stayhungry

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Re: moderately heavy
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2006, 04:17:29 PM »
yes exactly but basics of gaining size is eating enough