So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[MP]

It's much more logical to believe in a creator (or God) than it is to think the universe, man, the order of things, the depth of human emotion, etc., all simply came out of nothingness.

When you start analyzing the different "religions" that's what causes all the problems.

[Dave D]

Let's also not forget that the execution via crucifixion was prophesied in great detail hundreds and hundreds of years before it occurred and was fulfilled completely.

Agreed.

I was just answering the thread question. God has appeared, it's been documented, and mankind was so receptive to His ideas they had Him killed.

In the light of eternity 2000 years wasn't that long ago.

[Man of Steel]

Agreed.

I was just answering the thread question. God has appeared, it's been documented, and mankind was so receptive to His ideas they had Him killed.

In the light of eternity 2000 years wasn't that long ago.

My apologies, didn't mean to come across condescending...was just tacking on to your reply.....all good! 

[Primemuscle]

Because he is not a physical person but a belief system

Correct!

[OB1]

Because he is not a physical person but a belief system

Yup.
Nothing but a concept or thought.
Might as well be rich if you can get thoughts to materialize though.

[Necrosis]

My apologies, didn't mean to come across condescending...was just tacking on to your reply.....all good! 

lol, kinda ambiguous. He could of went to china were they had documentation, civilization and education, but nope, so ignorant sheep headers in the east which is still stuck in those retarded times.

God never showed himself, if he did, what a retarded way of doing it.

[bicepsofsteel]

Why has man failed to stop this?

Man WAS trying. Not sure if you were aware but the forces of good were battling to overcome Nazism whilst they were exterminating the Jews. God allowed the holocaust to happen, the rest of mankind fought to defeat it the best they could.Millions of soldiers died fighting the nazi's.  Either God doesn't exist or he watched the holocaust happen and didn't lift a finger

[Man of Steel]

Because he is not a physical person but a belief system

Jesus Christ is God.  Is a human being.  Lived on earth.  Died, buried and rose from dead.  There were witnesses.  His life and death were prophesied.

[Man of Steel]

lol, kinda ambiguous. He could of went to china were they had documentation, civilization and education, but nope, so ignorant sheep headers in the east which is still stuck in those retarded times.

God never showed himself, if he did, what a retarded way of doing it.

If he had appeared in a manner you think he should've someone else that hates God would say "what a retarded way of doing it".   Many people reject God no matter what.

[Tapeworm]

Man WAS trying. Not sure if you were aware but the forces of good were battling to overcome Nazism whilst they were exterminating the Jews. God allowed the holocaust to happen, the rest of mankind fought to defeat it the best they could.Millions of soldiers died fighting the nazi's.  Either God doesn't exist or he watched the holocaust happen and didn't lift a finger

But not because they were killing Jews.  And then the goodest of the good guys nuked civilians and policed the world to make sure there were rainbow cupcakes for everyone for breakfast every day.  The end.

[Man of Steel]

Correct!

Incorrect!

[Man of Steel]

Man WAS trying. Not sure if you were aware but the forces of good were battling to overcome Nazism whilst they were exterminating the Jews. God allowed the holocaust to happen, the rest of mankind fought to defeat it the best they could.Millions of soldiers died fighting the nazi's.  Either God doesn't exist or he watched the holocaust happen and didn't lift a finger

Mankind is given dominion over the earth:

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

When you're given dominion you act as governor over that with which you've been given authority, but from the perspective of the giver you are acting as a steward on his behalf.

A steward is one given authority by a greater power to manage a situation.  A king would often have governors or stewards over territories within his kingdom.

God is the creator and king and empowers mankind as stewards in that they are given dominion over creation to govern it and all its resources.

The problem of evil is not of God, but of man.  As believers in Christ we're commanded to spread the gospel message and help others understand the reasons for the hope within us.  

God entrusted humanity to govern the world.  The suffering within the world is a result of our actions.  Some see suffering in the world and blame God, but God already established a means to help mitigate that suffering......you and me.   Further, the problem of suffering (evil) is further resolved one soul at a time as folks turn and give their lives to Christ in humble surrender.

Yet the world loves it sin and replaces good with evil and evil with good.  It's backward and opposed to God and yet we blame God when he doesn't stop "the other guy's sin".  

If God were to intervene in man's evil choices then that would mean he would defy your will and force you into his.  That would mean you can't continue to enjoy pornography, adultery, alcohol abuse, recreational drug use, murder, rape, torture, idolatry, child abuse, etc....pick your favorite poison and that would be gone.

[Man of Steel]

According to the bible, God intervened all the time, and committed many evil acts. Stop cherry picking.

You clearly missed my point.  Read again.

[Man of Steel]

No, you conveniently missed my point. Jesus must have distracted you or something. What is it that you think i misinterpreted?

I never stated God doesn't intervene.  What we repeatedly see in scripture is God pronouncing judgment upon the reprobate that have come into the fullness of their sin after a long period with which to repent.

If God intervenes he has a specific, righteous purpose that both transcends us and that we may not fully comprehend.

What I stated is that people always want the other guy's sin to stop and not their own.  People want God to defy the other's guy will, but certainly never their own.   God doesn't just want the Nazis sin to stop, but your sin and my sin.  We see murder and think "that's gotta stop and God's doing nothing" yet most don't flinch when people worldwide are steeped in adultery and pornography and alcohol.....cause that stuff feels good!!

Tell me about all this evil of God.


  

[Raymondo]

And I've already already told you about the evil of your God before...remember when you took the giant meltdown, refused to address any of the points i made and instead claimed that God kills kids because we keep on sinning? It was like You turned into the "seven minute abs" guy from there's something about mary when he flips out lol.

Sounds interesting, do you have a link to the thread?

[Man of Steel]

LOL i'm glad that God doesn't differentiate between the holocaust and looking at porn...He's firm but fair, i'll give him that. I hope he gave himself a good telling off when he turned water into wine, though. And I've already already told you about the evil of your God before...remember when you took the giant meltdown, refused to address any of the points i made and instead claimed that God kills kids because we keep on sinning? It was like You turned into the "seven minute abs" guy from there's something about mary when he flips out lol.

So god "gives us" the free will to sin ( ), declares all sins are equal (according to your post), yet sometimes decides to destroy cities and drown everyone when he's pissed off, and blames us for the fact that he's an abject failure of a god; he hates sin and killing that much that he occasionally decides to kill people for it haha.

 I've come to realise that you're mentally ill. Your views are poisonous and if there ever was such a thing as a moral and just creator, he would surely send you and your kind to hell - Of that i am certain.

No I said God wants our sin to stop.  You then made the statement that there's no difference between the holocaust and pornography....those are your words.  God is just.

Why is turning water into wine is wrong?  Consuming alcohol isn't sinful.  Being drunk is sinful.  Being an alcoholic is sinful.

No, I didn't meltdown previously...I was composed I just made a mistake.   I did error my initial interpretation of your position and I apologized for that.  You accepted my apology and are now misrepresenting the situation and throwing it back in my face....classy.

God kills kids because we sin?  I don't understand what you're saying....need clarification to comment.

I never said all sin was equal....you just made that inference and stated it here as if I made that claim.  I said God wants our sin to stop....Nazi sin, my sin, your sin, etc...

He destroys cities because he's an adject failure of a God?  Again, don't understand....need clarification to comment.  

God has pronounced judgment upon the wicked and reprobate when they came into the fullness of their sin.  Are you suggesting that the wicked should go unpunished?  Why would you side with evil instead of righteousness?  God saves the good and punishes evil.   Why is that improper?  

I'm mentally ill?  Is that because I don't agree with your subjective presuppositions and atheist worldview?  Is it because I can defend my position as a theist?  

I think you need to calm down because you seem really angry right now and I'm not sure why.  It's reads as though you're boiling over and yet you don't truly understand that which you criticize or perhaps you're confused...it happens to the best of us.  I'll do my best to help explains things, but better if you calm down a bit.

  

[Man of Steel]

Sure do.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=589225.0

Let's of course remember this part of that dialogue:

Captain Freedom, I fully apologize for claiming you were mocking me, for initially deleting your nuclear explosion picture and claiming that you were anything other than genuine and forthright and never putting forth any negativity whatsoever.

I apologize for making unfair assumptions about your good intentions and ask for your forgiveness.  I should not have assumed the worst case and should have given you the benefit of the doubt.

I've reread the beginning of the thread with fresh eyes and I admit I was wrong in my assumption of you.   We've had good back and forth before and I should've been patient and not jumped to conclusions.  Even Christians make mistakes in judgment from time to time.  I let the actions of others dictate my judgment of you here.

That said, what questions do you still have?

[Raymondo]

Sure do.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=589225.0

Thanks for that, it is an interesting debate. I can see you put a lot of thought into your replies. I am a bit wary of writing very elaborate posts, because inevitably theists hit a brick wall and then, absent a meltdown, two things happen:

1) they will either go into long winded digressions or obfuscations, so they give the appearance of a reply without actually staying on point, or
2) they will latch onto a shift in tone and claim that some sort of grievous injury has been done and therefore they cannot read your post, which might easily have taken an hour to write.

Man of Steel did both of those things. Actually it is a consistent pattern with him. Same with pellius on the creation thread, when the going got rough he started repeating himself, quoting Hamlet, throwing non-sequiturs, like a child covering his ears with his hands and jumping in circles.

It is very hard to move past that brick wall and admit that religious thinking might have contradictions or that it might not be internally consistent. It requires a certain level of confidence and a willingness to show vulnerability.

[Man of Steel]

It is you that needs constant clarification on your own posts and doesn't seem to grasp exactly what it is you are saying, or what it is that it would mean if your comments hold any truth.

"God kills kids because we sin?  I don't understand what you're saying....need clarification to comment."

"It's the effect of our sinful choices that have brought about things like pain and fear upon the world (in both people and pigs).  We're subjected to evil, disease, famine, disasters, etc...all the results of our sin.   This world and it inhabitants exist in a perpetual state of decay leading to death because of sin."

for you to also say this: "God has pronounced judgment (sic) upon the wicked and reprobate when they came into the fullness of their sin.  Are you suggesting that the wicked should go unpunished?  Why would you side with evil instead of righteousness?  God saves the good and punishes evil.   Why is that improper?"

Well, it doesn't make any sense. It is you that seems to think that not only the wicked should go unpunished, but the innocent should too. Was god saving the good when he fucking drowned everyone in an enormous flood, inflicted plagues on people, turned them into pillars of salt and issued commands to kill our own kids for the most trivial of deeds? This is the nonsense that you believe in, deem as moral and seek to proselytise onto others. He quite clearly is an abject failure of a god and i can't fathom as to why you cannot see this, which is part of the reason why i think you're mentally ill. I also don't accept the fact that you can defend your position as a theist in any sort of logical, rational manner. You are right, however, that i should probably go chill out. I shall go and sculpt my guns for a bit before continuing with any more discussion.

As for our previous debate i linked. Yes, you did calm down over the few days that we had that discussion, but you can't deny that you went mental initially lol.

Ok, now I understand what you're suggesting.  Thank you for the clarification.  Yes, what I wrote previously is correct.

Now, God doesn't kill kids because of your sin or my sin.  God takes kids lives for many reasons which are both righteous and just.  I couldn't begin to understand them all.  

Those that aren't aligned with God aren't innocent....they're steeped in their sin.  They deserve the punishment for their chosen actions to defy God's laws.  

To be made righteous means you repent and stop sinning and follow the will of God.  Like Christ told his disciples we should become like the little children....innocent and without willful sin.   Said it's shameful to lead those little ones into sin and those who do will be punished.

We make the assumption that the innocents that perished (in the flood for example) died a painful, horrific death.  We don't know that.  Did they lose their lives here on earth?  Absolutely.  As did generations of pagans before them.  Had they been allowed to flourish for another generation or several generations they (the children...the innocent) would've fallen prey to the sinful behavior of their ancestors and been separated from God eternally when they died.  God saw that the pagan nations had come into the fullness of their sin.  So he pronounced judgment upon the wicked and took the innocent to be with him.  Spared the innocent their inevitable and repeatedly demonstrated fate via their elders and saved them from an existence of being virtually alone in the post-flood world.....just went straight to the Father in his glory.

Yes, as I already posted in that thread and again in this one I did make a mistake. I apologized, I asked for forgiveness and you acknowledged that and did.  Today you're throwing it back in my face; hence you've demonstrated a Godless condition that lacks the understanding of forgiveness.  I can't help that.

[BigRo]

sin sin sin is all I hear.

"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I'll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase "each other" doesn't make any sense." -Rumi

[Man of Steel]

sin sin sin is all I hear.

"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I'll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase "each other" doesn't make any sense." -Rumi

Man has subjective ideas of wrong and right.

God has absolute objective standards of wrong and right.  

And yes, we all need to repent and stop sinning.....even Rumi needed to.

[bigmc]

Man has subjective ideas of wrong and right.

God has absolute objective standards of wrong and right.  

And yes, we all need to repent and stop sinning.....even Rumi needed to.

so he absolutely knows what right and wrong is

but allows his priests to freely molest children while being protected by his church

[Man of Steel]

so he absolutely knows what right and wrong is

but allows his priests to freely molest children while being protected by his church

Yes, we have free will to sin.

Catholic church is the Pope's church...he sets the standards there.

God has his church.....we follow God's standards.

[BigRo]

And how do we distinguish mans subjective standards versus gods objective standards...the holy bible? The bible was written by men.

By being obsessed about sin, what sin is and trying to avoid it one becomes like the Pharisees. All clean and pure without but lacking spiritual realization and keeping others from entering in to that kingdom of direct understanding.

If sin means to miss the mark, then the essential sin out of which all ignorance arises is falling out of the enlightened state of union with god which is the state that Rumis poem describes. Perfect Oneness, no duality there, no right and wrong, yet no harm done to oneself or others.

[basil]

God has appeared in the form of a samsquanch.  Werd.