Author Topic: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?  (Read 103129 times)

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #200 on: March 14, 2016, 10:46:58 AM »
Get drunk on bliss in meditation, just sitting still enjoying breathing. The more we are lost in thoughts the less we can access bliss. In such a condition of being one does not ponder the existence or non existence of God.

I love meditating, it makes my life much better.

Exercise + meditation = bliss

And as opposed to religious indoctrination, meditation has a clear body of evidence showcasing its effects.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #201 on: March 14, 2016, 10:50:56 AM »
good to see your smugness bypass is working well

I don't know what you mean, but you're welcome to clarify.

Donny

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #202 on: March 14, 2016, 10:52:02 AM »
I love meditating, it makes my life much better.

Exercise + meditation = bliss

And as opposed to religious indoctrination, meditation has a clear body of evidence showcasing its effects.
I truly believe i achieve a state of Zen when i perform Jo and Ken Suburi  :)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #203 on: March 14, 2016, 11:03:45 AM »
Deep meditation is like a baptism by both water and fire. All the Christian mystics went in to deep meditation where they communed with Christ. In such a state ones 'sin' which is ignorance of our true nature is resolved.

I haven't read about that in scripture.  Where are those passages located?

BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #204 on: March 14, 2016, 11:24:08 AM »

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #205 on: March 14, 2016, 11:40:04 AM »


The gospel of Thomas is a non-canonical gospel because it is not in harmony with the other canonical gospels and promotes the teachings of gnosticism which is not of Christ.  Unfortunately Thomas joins the company of the gospels of Barnabas, Enoch, Clement and Baruch.  False gospels and epistles that have no harmony with inspired canon.  The gospel of Thomas is a 2nd century gospel and has no association with the apostles of Christ as they were deceased at the time of it's writing; hence it has no authority in that regard and certainly no divine inspiration.  The gospel denies the deity of Christ and that he is the Messiah.  Further it states that salvation is essentially achieved via inward reflection and that teaching is simply not of Christ.

The Gospel of Thomas contains the followings bits of theology which are simply not of Jesus Christ:

"Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."



BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #206 on: March 14, 2016, 11:51:29 AM »
all the gospels were written long after Jesus departure by people who may not have had any direct connection with his disciples. Teachings were passed on orally for the most part.

On the saying about women; so Jesus was a getbigger afterall!  :D


Primemuscle

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #207 on: March 14, 2016, 03:11:05 PM »
all the gospels were written long after Jesus departure by people who may not have had any direct connection with his disciples. Teachings were passed on orally for the most part.

On the saying about women; so Jesus was a getbigger afterall!  :D



This ^  :)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #208 on: March 14, 2016, 03:45:09 PM »
all the gospels were written long after Jesus departure by people who may not have had any direct connection with his disciples. Teachings were passed on orally for the most part.

On the saying about women; so Jesus was a getbigger afterall!  :D



Matthew and John were Christ's disciples.  Mark was a contemporary of the disciple Peter and the apostle Paul.  Luke was contemporary of the disciples and close friend of Paul.  Paul was a contemporary of Peter and Luke.  All gospels written within 30-60 years after Christ ascended and the earliest gospel of Mark being the pattern by which Matthew and Luke drafted their writings.

Most biographies are written many, many decades or centuries after the individuals written about have died.  In comparison the gospels were written very close to the actual events.  

There is evidence that some of Paul's letters were written within less than 25 years from Christ's crucifixion and Paul's conversion and encounter with Christ within 5-7 years of Christ's acsension.

Correct, as far as the apostles were concerned they did adhere to a long standing oral tradition including a talent for precise memorization and this is fantastic evidence supporting the accuracy of the writings.  Hence it's relatively easy, under divine inspiration, to put pen to paper and recount these events; although, difficult to stop and write while constantly on the run from people trying to murder you and all your friends.

Primemuscle

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #209 on: March 14, 2016, 09:32:48 PM »
With direct reference to this thread title, maybe God has grown weary of being in the spotlight and just wants some celestial alone time.  ;)

BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #210 on: March 14, 2016, 11:46:35 PM »
Matthew and John were Christ's disciples.  Mark was a contemporary of the disciple Peter and the apostle Paul.  Luke was contemporary of the disciples and close friend of Paul.  Paul was a contemporary of Peter and Luke.  All gospels written within 30-60 years after Christ ascended and the earliest gospel of Mark being the pattern by which Matthew and Luke drafted their writings.

Most biographies are written many, many decades or centuries after the individuals written about have died.  In comparison the gospels were written very close to the actual events.  

There is evidence that some of Paul's letters were written within less than 25 years from Christ's crucifixion and Paul's conversion and encounter with Christ within 5-7 years of Christ's acsension.

Correct, as far as the apostles were concerned they did adhere to a long standing oral tradition including a talent for precise memorization and this is fantastic evidence supporting the accuracy of the writings.  Hence it's relatively easy, under divine inspiration, to put pen to paper and recount these events; although, difficult to stop and write while constantly on the run from people trying to murder you and all your friends.

All the gospels as we know them were originally written in Greek. There are no Hebrew or Aramaic first hand accounts that have been found.

Even if Jesus manifested before me right now and asked me to believe he is the one and only savoir it would not make any difference to me. I would still have to put in hard efforts coupled with grace to realize the kingdom of heaven. The truth as I see it is that no enlightened being is going to make his form, his personality an exclusive entry point in to salvation. It was the Church who created this theology in order to control the masses. Christians are generally lazy. I sometimes sit for hours in the empty church and people come and go say a prayer light a candle and leave. People think Jesus, the saints, Mary, God will do it all for them, no need to put oneself through anything remotely transformational. 

How does it feel to live surrounded by people who you 'know' are going to hell?







CalvinH

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #211 on: March 15, 2016, 05:22:42 AM »
He just left Chicago with Jesus.


Is he headed to New Orleans?

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #212 on: March 15, 2016, 07:14:54 AM »
All the gospels as we know them were originally written in Greek. There are no Hebrew or Aramaic first hand accounts that have been found.

Even if Jesus manifested before me right now and asked me to believe he is the one and only savoir it would not make any difference to me. I would still have to put in hard efforts coupled with grace to realize the kingdom of heaven. The truth as I see it is that no enlightened being is going to make his form, his personality an exclusive entry point in to salvation. It was the Church who created this theology in order to control the masses. Christians are generally lazy. I sometimes sit for hours in the empty church and people come and go say a prayer light a candle and leave. People think Jesus, the saints, Mary, God will do it all for them, no need to put oneself through anything remotely transformational.  

How does it feel to live surrounded by people who you 'know' are going to hell?

Most of apostles (Peter and Paul included) spoke Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek, but it was the empire of Rome that did their level best to destroy the Christian libraries and halt the progression of Jesus Christ's gospel message.  

The field of archeology continues to undercover more and more extant manuscripts and have their authenticity validated with great intellectual vigor.  Back in 2012, textual critic Dan Wallace announced the discovery of a 1st century manuscript of Mark (results pending publication via EJ Brill) in addition to various 2nd century biblical manuscripts (all of which are significant findings).  Slowly but surely the gap between the present and the writing of the originals closes, but that doesn't mean we're without confidence in our present materials.  

The field of textual criticism is dedicated to the understanding the transmission and copying process of these ancient documents and has done so for decade after decade.  Their level of certainty is so great that they certify the New Testament with a 98.5% level of accuracy and reliability.  Even the great liberal textual critic Bart Ehrman (who is an admitted God hater) has stated in the appendix of the 4th edition of his famous book Misquoting Jesus that "the essential Christian beliefs are not affected by textual variants in the manuscript tradition of the New Testament" (please note that this appendix was removed in later additions of the book  ;D).  

Further, the use of dead languages such the Koine Greek, Aramaic (sister language of Arabic) and Hebrew (derivative of ancient Chaldean) has helped preserve the integrity of the writings given the development of these languages has both stopped and their usage ceased.  It's as if time halted with the biblical writings so that further linguistic corruption could not occur.

Now, what truly troubles me is your statement that even if Christ were to manifest in front of you it wouldn't be enough to convert or convince you of his truthfulness and righteousness.  This is unfortunately the point in the discussion in which I know that answering the objections of the God-hater is pointless.

For most God haters they aren't looking to have their objections answered.....they're simply looking for their next objection.  You can surf the net and find atheist sites with lists of biblical objections...some substantive yet most trivial.  If the substantive objections are answered first (and the vast majority can be) that should satisfy the remaining trivial objections, but it doesn't.  It's a rabbit hole that God haters - who admittedly have no level of satiation - travel down endlessly.....always looking for the next way to object to God.

You say Christians are lazy and that they don't seek personal transformation.  That tells me you don't understand Christianity and you certainly don't understand concepts of salvation, justification, imputation and sanctification.   I don't claim expert level understanding of the theology, but I certainly grasp these concepts and can communicate them to others (and have on these boards repeatedly).  Still, there isn't any point in me AGAIN presenting these materials here because you've clearly put forth that interaction with Christ himself (even if accomplished on your terms) wouldn't be sufficient.  So even if you pitch further objections and I continue to bat them away it won't make a lick of difference for you.   Hopefully it will for others.  I don't think you're a bad person (quite the opposite), but I don't think you seek discussion about God to understand his truth....it's merely to validate yourself.  

BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #213 on: March 15, 2016, 09:24:06 AM »
Most of apostles (Peter and Paul included) spoke Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek, but it was the empire of Rome that did their level best to destroy the Christian libraries and halt the progression of Jesus Christ's gospel message.  

The field of archeology continues to undercover more and more extant manuscripts and have their authenticity validated with great intellectual rigor.  Back in 2012, textual critic Dan Wallace announced the discovery of a 1st century manuscript of Mark (results pending publication via EJ Brill) in addition to various 2nd century biblical manuscripts (all of which are significant findings).  Slowly but surely the gap between the present and the writing of the originals closes, but that doesn't mean we're without confidence in our present materials.  

The field of textual criticism is dedicated to the understanding the transmission and copying process of these ancient documents and has done so for decade after decade.  Their level of certainty is so great that they certify the New Testament with a 98.5% level of accuracy and reliability.  Even the great liberal textual critic Bart Ehrman (who is an admitted God hater) has stated in the appendix of the 4th edition of his famous book Misquoting Jesus that "the essential Christian beliefs are not affected by textual variants in the manuscript tradition of the New Testament" (please note that this appendix was removed in later additions of the book  ;D).  

Further, the use of dead languages such the Koine Greek, Aramaic (sister language of Arabic) and Hebrew (derivative of ancient Chaldean) has helped preserve the integrity of the writings given the development of these languages has both stopped and their usage ceased.  It's as if time halted with the biblical writings so that further linguistic corruption could not occur.

Now, what truly troubles me is your statement that even if Christ were to manifest in front of you it wouldn't be enough to convert or convince you of his truthfulness and righteousness.  This is unfortunately the point in the discussion in which I know that answering the objections of the God-hater is pointless.

For most God haters they aren't looking to have their objections answered.....they're simply looking for their next objection.  You can surf the net and find atheist sites with lists of biblical objections...some substantive yet most trivial.  If the substantive objections are answered first (and the vast majority can be) that should satisfy the remaining trivial objections, but it doesn't.  It's a rabbit hole that God haters who admittedly have no level of satiation travel down endlessly.....always looking for the next way to object to God.

You say Christians are lazy and that they don't seek personal transformation.  That tells me you don't understand Christianity and you certainly don't understand concepts of salvation, justification, imputation and sanctification.   I don't claim expert level understanding of the theology, but I certainly grasp these concepts and can communicate them to others (and have on these boards repeatedly).  Still, there isn't any point in me AGAIN presenting these materials here because you've clearly put forth that interaction with Christ himself (even if accomplished on your terms) wouldn't be sufficient.  So even if you pitch further objections and I continue to bat them away it won't make a lick of difference for you.   Hopefully it will for others.  I don't think you're a bad person (quite the opposite), but I don't think you seek discussion about God to understand his truth....it's merely to validate yourself.  

I admire and respect you and enjoy enlightening discussions. I am not a God hater. I do have alot of objections to mainstream Christianity, as I do with aspects of other religious paths (or any worldview) which I feel keep people from experiencing the fullness of life and god and themselves. If Jesus manifested before me I would be thoroughly reverent and feel blessed as I would if it were another enlightened being. What I meant is that belief by itself is not sufficient if it does not blossom in to personal inner awakening. Awakening to the exact same state that that enlightened being before me is experiencing. Which takes dedicated concentration and practise, which takes a whole lot more than what most Christians put forth of themselves. If one cannot bring the interior consciousness in to a perfect stillness one cannot allow in the full benediction of the Divine. Shalom.




Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #214 on: March 15, 2016, 09:44:40 AM »
I admire and respect you and enjoy enlightening discussions. I am not a God hater. I do have alot of objections to mainstream Christianity, as I do with aspects of other religious paths (or any worldview) which I feel keep people from experiencing the fullness of life and god and themselves. If Jesus manifested before me I would be thoroughly reverent and feel blessed as I would if it were another enlightened being. What I meant is that belief by itself is not sufficient if it does not blossom in to personal inner awakening. Awakening to the exact same state that that enlightened being before me is experiencing. Which takes dedicated concentration and practise, which takes a whole lot more than what most Christians put forth of themselves. If one cannot bring the interior consciousness in to a perfect stillness one cannot allow in the full benediction of the Divine. Shalom.





I understand much more now....thanks for the clarification!  I need hand holding from time to time.   ;D

See, I don't mind answering questions at all.  Now, I don't always have an answer (or sometimes even a good answer), but the dialogue is good provided it isn't the typical "question asked >>  answer given  >>  utter brick wall of rejection received" scenario over and over and over.  This isn't happening in this instance so I'm grateful for that.

I think how I can attempt to relate to what your saying is with the idea that "faith without works is dead".  This is true.  All sorts claim to be Christian, claim Jesus as Lord, etc....but so much of that is nominal or vapid claims.  Further a genuine faith in Christ is absolutely accompanied by a desire to live for Christ and be the proverbial "salt and light" and "hands and feet" of Christ.  

I simply can't articulate your position as well as you can, but I do agree that if a person claims a change in Christ that others should recognize that change and that the individual should proactively be seeking to be as Christ-like as possible.

I'm glad you are not a God-hater.  ;)

BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #215 on: March 15, 2016, 11:36:22 AM »
I understand much more now....thanks for the clarification!  I need hand holding from time to time.   ;D

See, I don't mind answering questions at all.  Now, I don't always have an answer (or sometimes even a good answer), but the dialogue is good provided it isn't the typical "question asked >>  answer given  >>  utter brick wall of rejection received" scenario over and over and over.  This isn't happening in this instance so I'm grateful for that.

I think how I can attempt to relate to what your saying is with the idea that "faith without works is dead".  This is true.  All sorts claim to be Christian, claim Jesus as Lord, etc....but so much of that is nominal or vapid claims.  Further a genuine faith in Christ is absolutely accompanied by a desire to live for Christ and be the proverbial "salt and light" and "hands and feet" of Christ.  

I simply can't articulate your position as well as you can, but I do agree that if a person claims a change in Christ that others should recognize that change and that the individual should proactively be seeking to be as Christ-like as possible.

I'm glad you are not a God-hater.  ;)

I wont always have questions but I always intend to be respectful. I am a God lover, sometimes to the point that devotional tears will flow, a very different state from crying.

I resonate with your understanding about how a real Christian should be and would also concur that works without faith are dead, though we differ in the narrowness or breadth that that faith takes.




BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #216 on: March 15, 2016, 11:44:45 AM »

BigRo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #217 on: March 15, 2016, 11:52:19 AM »

Skeletor

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #218 on: March 15, 2016, 12:24:46 PM »
The gospel of Thomas is a non-canonical gospel because it is not in harmony with the other canonical gospels and promotes the teachings of gnosticism which is not of Christ.  Unfortunately Thomas joins the company of the gospels of Barnabas, Enoch, Clement and Baruch.  False gospels and epistles that have no harmony with inspired canon.  The gospel of Thomas is a 2nd century gospel and has no association with the apostles of Christ as they were deceased at the time of it's writing; hence it has no authority in that regard and certainly no divine inspiration.  The gospel denies the deity of Christ and that he is the Messiah.  Further it states that salvation is essentially achieved via inward reflection and that teaching is simply not of Christ.

The Gospel of Thomas contains the followings bits of theology which are simply not of Jesus Christ:

"Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."




What does that mean for Maria Calo?



Agnostic007

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #219 on: March 15, 2016, 01:19:10 PM »
Matthew and John were Christ's disciples.  Mark was a contemporary of the disciple Peter and the apostle Paul.  Luke was contemporary of the disciples and close friend of Paul.  Paul was a contemporary of Peter and Luke.  All gospels written within 30-60 years after Christ ascended and the earliest gospel of Mark being the pattern by which Matthew and Luke drafted their writings.

Most biographies are written many, many decades or centuries after the individuals written about have died.  In comparison the gospels were written very close to the actual events.  

There is evidence that some of Paul's letters were written within less than 25 years from Christ's crucifixion and Paul's conversion and encounter with Christ within 5-7 years of Christ's acsension.

Correct, as far as the apostles were concerned they did adhere to a long standing oral tradition including a talent for precise memorization and this is fantastic evidence supporting the accuracy of the writings.  Hence it's relatively easy, under divine inspiration, to put pen to paper and recount these events; although, difficult to stop and write while constantly on the run from people trying to murder you and all your friends.

Jesus H Christ you can't be serious!

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #220 on: March 15, 2016, 01:25:06 PM »
Jesus H Christ you can't be serious!

You know that "Christ" isn't a last name, right LOL?  

Yes, I'm serious.  

I'll wait for the Ehrman and Carrier opinions that suggest manuscripts were forged last week.

Then I'll reply with evaluations from Metzger, Wallace, White, Habermas, McDowell, Geisler, etc.....I know the drill.

So let's cut to chase:  you like the opinions that say the bible is garbage and I like the opinions that say it's the inspired word.

Agnostic007

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #221 on: March 15, 2016, 01:33:37 PM »
You know that "Christ" isn't a last name, right LOL?  

Yes, I'm serious.  

I'll wait for the Ehrman and Carrier opinions that suggest manuscripts were forged last week.

Then I'll reply with evaluations from Metzger, Wallace, White, Habermas, McDowell, Geisler, etc.....I know the drill.

So let's cut to chase:  you like the opinions that say the bible is garbage and I like the opinions that say it's the inspired word.

So then we agree I'm the logical reasonable one

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #222 on: March 15, 2016, 01:35:47 PM »
So then we agree I'm the logical reasonable one

Sounds great!

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2016, 02:22:18 AM »
mos has tipped over the edge

crazy preacher of peace

there is irrefutable evidence of other historical facts around that time

bu no evidence outside of the speculation of christians regarding the facts around jesus
T

Ronnie Rep

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #224 on: March 16, 2016, 05:38:58 AM »