So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Raymondo]

Yes I understand your point.

However Mary's virgin status is vital to establish the impregnation of the Holy Spirit. If she were not a virgin than Jesus wouldn't be who He claims to be.

Well then, he wasn't.

[Dave D]

Well then, he wasn't.

Touche . And again your point is valid.

Inevitably we will all know for sure one way or another if Jesus is indeed a liar.

[BigRo]

Yes I understand your point.

However Mary's virgin status is vital to establish the impregnation of the Holy Spirit. If she were not a virgin than Jesus wouldn't be who He claims to be.

In what way would Jesus not be who he claims to be if he was conceived in the normal manner? Why the dichotomy between spiritual purity and the reproductive process. Original sin is it.

[Raymondo]

Saying things like "having to school you" doesn't phase me.

That is correct.  A man identifying as a pastor repeatedly abused a child.  Therefore he is not of Christ....he is not made new in Christ....he is of the devil and his old wicked self.   The pastor needs to repent and be made new in Christ.   This behavior is neither of God nor is this "pastor" saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and sanctified by the Holy Spirit in order to fulfill the will of God.  We have a false convert in the form of a pastor still steeped in his sin....the old man did not die but remains a slave to sin.  Not a Christian according to the objective, ultimate standards of God.  

This is as "no true Scotsman" as it gets. I am going to use this as an example on another website I work on.

Instead of pointing me to a specific objective rule, you use rhetoric to exclude the pastor's specific case.

This is schooling since you either:

1) Know the difference between your indoctrination and logic and indoctrination wins every time, you just refuse to play by logical rules, or
2) You are simply ignorant and don't understand half the stuff we post, merely pretend you do.

[Raymondo]

In what way would Jesus not be who he claims to be if he was conceived in the normal manner? Why the dichotomy between spiritual purity and the reproductive process. Original sin is it.

It was a misunderstanding based on translation from medieval Greek to another language. "Virgin" in medieval Greek also meant "young girl".

[Man of Steel]

This is as "no true Scotsman" as it gets. I am going to use this as an example on another website I work on.

Instead of pointing me to a specific objective rule, you use rhetoric to exclude the pastor's specific case.

This is schooling, since you either:

1) Know the difference between your indoctrination and logic and indoctrination wins every time, you just refuse to play by logical rules, or
2) You are simply ignorant and don't understand half the stuff we post, merely pretend you do.

As I'm repeating for the third time I prescribe to God's standards....that's all I need LOL.

All of God's word is meaningless rhetoric to you, Freedom, TA, SF, the O1 guy., etc....

[Raymondo]

As I'm repeating for the third time I prescribe to God's standards....that's all I need LOL.

Exactly. Don't even try to argue. You're not in a position to.

[BigRo]

It was a misunderstanding based on translation from medieval Greek to another language. "Virgin" in medieval Greek also meant "young girl".

possibly though the supernatural conception scenario is present in many other savior figure stories.

[Raymondo]

possibly though the supernatural conception scenario is present in many other savior figure stories.

Many elements of the Jesus narrative are found in saviour figure stories. Like in the Sun God. Death in winter, resurrection in spring... etc.

[Man of Steel]

Exactly. Don't even try to argue. You're not in a position to.

I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between God's ultimate, objective standard and a logical fallacy used correct the subjective standards of men.

Maybe someone else can articulate it in terms that are easier to understand.

[Raymondo]

I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between God's ultimate, objective standard and a logical fallacy used correct the subjective standards of men.

Maybe someone else can articulate it in terms that are easier to understand.

There's nothing to understand other than your thought process.

[Dave D]

In what way would Jesus not be who he claims to be if he was conceived in the normal manner? Why the dichotomy between spiritual purity and the reproductive process. Original sin is it.

Great question.

If Jesus were born of a man, say Joseph,  he would be no different than the "sons of Abraham" (in this sense  circumcised  Jews who believed in YHWH ) and even more so a son of Adam, the original  fallen savior/ruler of the earth (this is your original sin point).

Jesus being born of the spirit of God explains His divinity and and sin free nature. He then is the "new" Adam sent to rectify a broken system offering to restore the relationship between God and man (long story short before sin Adam walked and talked freely amongst /with God. Sin broke that relationship and the recorded encounters with God took place in Holy places and/or on Holy ground (think of priests in the inner sanctuary of the temple or Moses on Mt. Sinai). Only "purified" priests went before God).

Jesus became a sacrificial lamb, that when crucified made it possible for man to communicate directly with God, just as the first Adam did.

[Dave D]

It was a misunderstanding based on translation from medieval Greek to another language. "Virgin" in medieval Greek also meant "young girl".

Parthenos? The original Greek meant virgin or maiden. The idea was sexually pure, or am I mistaken?

[BigRo]

Great question.

If Jesus were born of a man, say Joseph,  he would be no different than the "sons of Abraham" (in this sense  circumcised  Jews who believed in YHWH ) and even more so a son of Adam, the original  fallen savior/ruler of the earth (this is your original sin point).

Jesus being born of the spirit of God explains His divinity and and sin free nature. He then is the "new" Adam sent to rectify a broken system offering to restore the relationship between God and man (long story short before sin Adam walked and talked freely amongst /with God. Sin broke that relationship and the recorded encounters with God took place in Holy places and/or on Holy ground (think of priests in the inner sanctuary of the temple or Moses on Mt. Sinai). Only "purified" priests went before God).

Jesus became a sacrificial lamb, that when crucified made it possible for man to communicate directly with God, just as the first Adam did.

Sinning (sex) is needed for the survival and reproduction of species. Did Jesus's 'sin free nature' never get an erection? If we allow him other human emotions like anger etc why cant we allow him a libido also. One that he very well could have transformed through a celibate path in to his enlightenment but he still had a body with hormones.

[Man of Steel]

There's nothing to understand other than your thought process.

Will you continue to school me on the application of logical fallacies before or after your continued ad hominems?

[Dave D]

Sinning (sex) is needed for the survival and reproduction of species. Did Jesus's 'sin free nature never get an erection? If we allow him other human emotions like anger etc why cant we allow him a libido also. One that he very well could have transformed through a celibate path in to his enlightenment but he still had a body with hormones.

Where did the idea that erections are sin come from? I wasn't aware of this.

Jesus spoke of heart issues, that men's actions were the result of a false/corrupt belief system. He taught to look inward to understand outward expressions.

I'm of the belief that Jesus was celibate, and took no wife.  

[BigRo]

If sexual desire was the reason we fell out of paradise and erections usually go in tandem with a libido then if Jesus had sexual desire/erections how could he have a sin free body. I can also believe he lived a chaste life but surely he was tempted to marry and live a normal life with children instead of fulfilling his difficult mission.

[Raymondo]

Will you continue to school me on the application of logical fallacies before or after your continued ad hominems?

I see no problem in calling out your stupidity after the argument is settled.

[Man of Steel]

If sexual desire was the reason we fell out of paradise and erections usually go in tandem with a libido then if Jesus had sexual desire/erections how could he have a sin free body. I can also believe he lived a chaste life but surely he was tempted to marry and live a normal life with children instead of fulfilling his difficult mission.

Jesus was without sin.  No sexual desires.  No lust.  No adultery.  No pornographic thoughts.

Being tempted does not equate to engaging in the temptation.

[Man of Steel]

I see no problem in calling out your stupidity after the argument is settled.

Ok Ray, you do that.

[Raymondo]

Jesus was without sin.  No sexual desires.  No lust.  No adultery.  No pornographic thoughts.

Being tempted does not equate to engaging in the temptation.

So he was tempted? I thought you said no "desires".

Which is it?

[Skeletor]

Jesus was without sin.  No sexual desires.  No lust.  No adultery.  No pornographic thoughts.

Being tempted does not equate to engaging in the temptation.

How can you (or anyone else) know about another person's every thought?

[BigRo]

Jesus was without sin.  No sexual desires.  No lust.  No adultery.  No pornographic thoughts.

Being tempted does not equate to engaging in the temptation.

but it does equate to having desire even if not acted apon, and your not willing to allow him that humanness.

[SF1900]

No pornographic thoughts? ahha lol.

The idea that having sexual thoughts is a sin just shows you how illogical religion is. Trying to control what you think on a daily basis. As if having a sexual feeling about someone is so bad.   Seriously, I cant believe religion thinks of this shit and people follow it lol.

[Man of Steel]

So he was tempted? I thought you said no "pornographic" thoughts.

Which is it?

He was tempted by Satan.  There was no mention of pornographic thoughts within that episode of temptation.

My statement is that pornographic thoughts are often associated with lust and masturbation about adulterous situations and sexual perversions.

He was without sin.