So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Sizwe]

? Nocturnal emissions? Those aren't considered in the same class because it's in the subconscious?

Exactly

[Sizwe]

Abstinence rarely works.

"Abstinence-only-until-marriage programs don't work. To date, 11 states have evaluated the impact of their abstinence-only-until-marriage programs. None has been shown to reduce teen sexual activity."

Secondly, single parent, STD and pregnancy often has a lot to do with not educating the youth about proper and safe sex. Teens are going to have sex. Fact. Its best to educate them. Furthermore, a lot of teenage pregnancy has nothing to do with sinning or trying to avoid sexual feelings: a lot has to do with crime, poverty, lack of education, etc.

What does masturbation have to do with objectifying someone elses body?  

Research is quite clear that masturbation is a healthy act within reason. You can either cite evidence of the contrary, or be quiet about it and continue to spew your religious stuff, gimmick.

 "intrinsically and gravely disordered action."

Research does not show that masturbation is gravely disordered action. Try again, gimmick.

I said if you need to ejaculate, your body will do so itself. The health benefits of you jerking off on top of it would probably be negligible.
What does masturbation have to do with objectifying someone elses body? Try getting it off thinking about / looking at flowers..and if you do, once again, probably something not quite normal.
Single parent, STDs and teenage pregnancy can all be greatly avoided by waiting until marriage, and many do. Its not taboo or abnormal despite the strong push against it these days.

[SF1900]

I said if you need to ejaculate, your body will do so itself. The health benefits of you jerking off on top of it would probably be negligible.
What does masturbation have to do with objectifying someone elses body? Try getting it off thinking about / looking at flowers..and if you do, once again, probably something not quite normal.
Single parent, STDs and teenage pregnancy can all be greatly avoided by waiting until marriage,and many do. Its not taboo or abnormal despite the strong push against it these days.

That is not what the research shows about masturbation. Tons of articles. So either show evidence or shut up with your supposed reasoning. Your opinion means nothing without evidence.

lol at objectifying someone else because of thoughts. Yeah, ridiculous.

I already showed abstinent programs dont work. You failed to provide evidence to the contrary.

Its all your opinion. You = fail.

[Garbage Man]

Jesus in cereal is all the proof I need.

[bigmc]

Would you say these benefits could also be gained by having sex in a married relationship, or does it only work when you jerk off? I personally believe these added benefits are negligible to your overall health and can probably be obtained otherwise.
"lol at objectifying someone else because of thoughts. Yeah, ridiculous." - this is your opinion, but thoughts do lead to actions and actions have consequences, even if you're not aware of them.
And I don't know what abstinence programs you speak of, but please test this yourself and try getting someone accidentally pregnant or contracting and STD by not having sex, lemme know how it goes.

you need to get out more

[BigRo]

Abstinence can be helpful for someone wanting to progress in meditation/elevate their consciousness as long as the energy can be sublimated. The power of concentration is enhanced but not if the mind is constantly dwelling on sex. I have always felt a considerable difference between being vitally charged and depleted, and much prefer the former state, even as a teen I knew this so always made efforts for self control, but from an energetic experiential standpoint not a moral one.

[Man of Steel]

What do you mean "kill nonbelievers today"?

Why are you adding in this condition of context to certain passages but not to others? If the bible is a historical document to be understood within its own context, and not interpreted for life today then stop using scripture to tell everyone how to live their life. I noticed you recently quote Deuteronomy as an example of why drug use is wrong; Deuteronomy 13:6-10 clearly states that you should kill family members that worship other Gods, and you know there are many other passages that i could post which call for similar actions. Will you now please answer my question of whether it is justified for a Christian to act upon these passages and kill his family for worshipping false idols?

Either you believe it is Gods word and they would be justified in following it, or you are guilty of cherry-picking and twisting scripture to fit your own agenda. I would appreciate an answer regarding the second question i put to you, also.

I'm sorry if I haven't given your posts more undivided attention, but yesterday (and most days) I answer questions as I'm able.  Some days I have to be brief and others days allow me to be more thorough.  Yesterday I was answering comments from about 5-6 folks at once while multitasking stuff.  My replies were quick and brief or copied and pasted from previous posts.  Sometimes I miss posts, sometimes I have to gloss posts, sometimes I can't get to every post.  I'll try to answer as I'm able.

I read your longer post yesterday quickly and some of the last sentences mentioned something about "justifying killing unbelievers"...something to that effect.  So I was asking for clarification.  I know you have no idea what's occurring in my current day-to-day, but it hasn't afforded a ton of time to devote to atheist objections.....so my responses have been more brief.

I quoted out of Deuteronomy recently?  I don't recall that at all.  Not saying I didn't....I just don't remember.  Maybe some of the articles I posted did?  

I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives.  I'm telling them how God views sin and how to be saved from the wrath and judgment of God because of their sin.   Just about the most loving thing someone can do for another.  And I continue to do it amidst consistent ridicule and mockery and hate.

Given the book mentioned do you have a question about something pertaining to the specific laws for Israelites?  The Israelites are God's chosen folks and as such they were to be set apart in every facet of their lives from the world around them.  Their existence was such that everything done was in order to be holy and pure representatives of God.  They had specific dietary laws, clothing laws, sacrificial laws, tithing laws, hygiene laws, etc.....

A big "no-no" was putting false gods before God (or having any part of false gods).  You can't be part of the chosen, set apart folks and give worship to man-made, demonic, false gods.....punishment was death.  Gentiles were grafted into the nation of Israel, but Christ's salvific work eliminated the sacrificial laws yet upheld the moral laws (10 commandments...with the exception of Sabbath law) and removed Gentile involvement from old dietary, clothing, hygeine, tithing laws, etc.....the new testament is a new covenant.

Is this what you were wanting to understand?  Or is there something else?  

[Pet shop boys]

Like in the sky or on tv or anything? Like to say do this and don't do that, im happy with this, im not happy with that.

He doesn't.

Because hes not real.

Now grow up.

Because people wouldn't do shit with their lives waiting for him to show up and dictate when or how to do things



WoooSHHHHHHHH

[BigRo]

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;   Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.  And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."

Divinely inspired stuff  

[mazrim]

I already showed abstinent programs dont work. You failed to provide evidence to the contrary.

I think his point was that abstinence works not that abstinent programs work. All that shows is a lack of self control which is a lot of people's issue in many areas.
Abstinence is a 100% effective.

[Man of Steel]

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;   Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.  And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."

Divinely inspired stuff  

So in this case we need some historical context.  

Objectors of these verses typically envision and portray the Israelites worshipping fun-loving, happy-go-lucky, false gods of flowers, puppies and rainbows.    And whichever of the pure of heart Israelites chose to worship these sugary-sweet, gentler than gentle, kinder than kind false gods was put to death by the vindictive, murderous, jealous, bitter, petty, vile God of the Hebrews!!  BOOOOOOOO Hebrew God!  How could you?!!  

Not the case.  

Pagan worship was anything but smiles, puppies and candy bars.  It was live infant sacrifice via burning to death on white hot altars to Molech.  It was self-mutilation within ceremonies of sexual perversion and the whoring of young women in demonic rituals to Baal.  It was demonic rituals of witchcraft/sorcery and further ritualistic sexual perversion and whoring of women to the pagan goddess Asherah.  It was carnal, it was dark, it was twisted, it was evil, it was demonic and it destroyed countless innocents.

So, if an Israelite defied his/her sacred covenant with God and chose to participate in the evil worship and practices of false pagan gods such as Baal, Asherah and Molech they lost their wretched lives for it.  These folks traded new and righteous life in order to corrupt and destroy the lives of others.

Do I believe God was just?  Absolutely.  If a person is going to break a righteous covenant with God and engage in acts that pervert and murder innocents then it's absolutely just that your life be forfeit as punishment.  

[Man of Steel]

Jesus of Nazareth was a man and all men have desires.

True and Jesus Christ's desires were pure and righteous and unblemished.

[Agnostic007]

We know about Jesus' life.

Jesus Christ was without sin.  He had no sinful thoughts.   

You actually know very little about Jesus' life. You know almost nothing from the time he was 1 years old until 30 years old. He died roughly at 33 years. What you DON'T know about Jesus' life could fill a book... no pun intended 

[Man of Steel]

You actually know very little about Jesus' life. You know almost nothing from the time he was 1 years old until 30 years old. He died roughly at 33 years. What you DON'T know about Jesus' life could fill a book... no pun intended 

We know his life was without sin whether we know 5 minutes or 33 years of his life.

[Man of Steel]

Can anyone give me cliffs on this thread?   LOL   

The majority of people are God haters and a few of us are God lovers.....you're welcome.  

[Agnostic007]

Saying things like "having to school you" doesn't phase me.

That is correct.  A man identifying as a pastor repeatedly abused a child.  Therefore he is not of Christ....he is not made new in Christ....he is of the devil and his old wicked self.   The pastor needs to repent and be made new in Christ.   This behavior is neither of God nor is this "pastor" saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and sanctified by the Holy Spirit in order to fulfill the will of God.  We have a false convert in the form of a pastor still steeped in his sin....the old man did not die but remains a slave to sin.  Not a Christian according to the objective, ultimate standards of God.  

When you say standards of god.. do you mean

Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together

or

13If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19They shall fine him a hundred shekelsb of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

20If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

maybe you meant this standard from god;

23If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

25But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

28If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29he shall pay her father fifty shekelsc of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


All good standards to live by right? Your God is a pretty whacked out dude by any real moral standards. 

[wes]

The majority of people are God haters and a few of us are God lovers.....you're welcome.   

It was strictly a rhetorical question my brother as we all know how these threads are just repeats of similar threads that are of the same subject matter.


Peace buddy,and keep doing your thing!   

[Man of Steel]

He was tempted by Satan, but the form that temptation took never arose in his consciousness as a desire for wedded intimacy with a beautiful woman? How could he effectively be tempted then?

God does not need a sacrifice for our sin, for the humanness which he himself created to ensure the continuation of the species.

As noted previously, there is not indication of temptation via sexual intimacy, perversion, etc.....it was promises of grand giving of the world and testing of his divine power.

Correct, God does not need a sacrifice for our sin.  Once you work from a perspective of "God needing" you're in error.  The sacrifice is what we need in order to be aligned with God.  Everything God does is in accordance with what humanity needs and drawing us out of our own will and into his will for our lives.

[Agnostic007]

We know his life was without sin whether we know 5 minutes or 33 years of his life.

you can't tell me his favorite color, favorite food, favorite pastime as a kid, best friend as a child, if he had a dog. You can't tell me if he had a sense of humor, if he liked to swim, was he a morning person or a night owl. You can't tell me anything about this person you claim to have a personal relationship with, but you KNOW he was without sin... yeah that's totally believable. 

[Man of Steel]

you can't tell me his favorite color, favorite food, favorite pastime as a kid, best friend as a child, if he had a dog. You can't tell me if he had a sense of humor, if he liked to swim, was he a morning person or a night owl. You can't tell me anything about this person you claim to have a personal relationship with, but you KNOW he was without sin... yeah that's totally believable. 

Ok, so if I knew the answers were blue, roast chicken, playing stick ball, Saul, Skippy, knock-knock jokes, the backstroke and the calm of early morning would that change anything else in scripture we do know about Christ and the love and grace revealed to his body of believers?

Yes, we know he was without sin.

[Agnostic007]

Ok, so if I knew the answers were blue, roast chicken, playing stick ball, Saul, Skippy, knock-knock jokes, the backstroke and the calm of early morning would that change anything else in scripture we do know about Christ and the love and grace revealed to his body of believers?

Yes, we know he was without sin.

No further questions your honor.. I rest my case..

[Man of Steel]

When you say standards of god.. do you mean

Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together

or

13If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19They shall fine him a hundred shekelsb of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

20If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

maybe you meant this standard from god;

23If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

25But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

28If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29he shall pay her father fifty shekelsc of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


All good standards to live by right? Your God is a pretty whacked out dude by any real moral standards.  

These were standards for the Israelites in the OT in order to maintain their righteous standing and covenant with God.  They entered a holy, sacred covenant with God and were to be set apart in all facets of life from the pagan nations that surrounded them.  

Yes, Israelites were not meant to mix certain fabrics, a symbol of being set apart from the world and not intermingling with it's ungodly practices and customs.  Gentiles are not subject to this standard are they part of a new covenant.

Yes, if a Israelite man suspected that his betrothed had engaged in an adulterous relationship and it was determined that he was in error in this regard then he was to pay penance to the family as an apology, he was punished for his behavior and the marriage would continue as initially planned since he made good on his wrongdoing.....they were to be pure and set apart.
 
Yes, the standard for adulterous relationships could be death within the Israelites.....they are to be pure and set apart.

Yes, if a man raped a young woman he was put to death.....they were to be pure and set apart.

You chose the harshest translation which includes the term "rape" which is the minority of the various translations.  The terms "and they are discovered" implies a complicit relationship hence invalidating the improper use of "rape" and indicating an adulterous relationship......they were to be pure and set apart.

If they broke God's laws and defied his standards their lives could be forfeit.  

Today we live in an increasingly Godless world in which people turn evil into good and good into evil.  Sexual perversion and adultery is just "having some fun WHOO-HOOH!!"  

Zero accountability for actions so lets all agree the actions are good....WE DID IT!!

[Man of Steel]

No further questions your honor.. I rest my case..

You didn't answer my question.  You just claimed some sort of victory.  Ok.

[Agnostic007]

These were standards for the Israelites in the OT in order to maintain their righteous standing and covenant with God.  They entered a holy, sacred covenant with God and were to be set apart in all facets of life from the pagan nations that surrounded them.  

Yes, Israelites were not meant to mix certain fabrics, a symbol of being set apart from the world and not intermingling with it's ungodly practices and customs.  Gentiles are not subject to this standard are they part of a new covenant.

Yes, if a Israelite man suspected that his betrothed had engaged in an adulterous relationship and it was determined that he was in error in this regard then he was to pay penance to the family as an apology, he was punished for his behavior and the marriage would continue as initially planned since he made good on his wrongdoing.....they were to be pure and set apart.
 
Yes, the standard for adulterous relationships was death within the Israelites.....they are to be pure and set apart.

Yes, if a man raped a young woman he was put to death.....they were to be pure and set apart.

You chose the harshest translation which includes the term "rape" which is the minority of the various translations.  The terms "and they are discovered" implies a complicit relationship hence invalidating the improper use of "rape" and indicating an adulterous relationship......they were to be pure and set apart.

If they broke God's laws and defied his standards their lives could be forfeit.  

Today we live in an increasingly Godless world in which people turn evil into good and good into evil.  Sexual perversion and adultery is just "having some fun WHOO-HOOH!!"

If a man rapes a woman she must marry her rapist.. Stoning was appropriate punishment for adultery. Again, the character of your god, whether it was 5 years ago, or 1500 years ago is pretty piss poor. You would give him a pass on anything he did and we've proven that with the stories of his soldiers cutting open pregnant women with swords, and all manner of atrocities.. just because he is god. Dangerous grounds there.. similar to Hitler.. well, if Hitler says to burn the jews.. must be right.. he's Hitler after all

[Man of Steel]

If a man rapes a woman she must marry her rapist.. Stoning was appropriate punishment for adultery. Again, the character of your god, whether it was 5 years ago, or 1500 years ago is pretty piss poor. You would give him a pass on anything he did and we've proven that with the stories of his soldiers cutting open pregnant women with swords, and all manner of atrocities.. just because he is god. Dangerous grounds there.. similar to Hitler.. well, if Hitler says to burn the jews.. must be right.. he's Hitler after all

You glossed my explanation.  Here it is again:

You chose the harshest translation which includes the term "rape" which is the minority of the various translations.  The terms "and they are discovered" implies a complicit relationship hence invalidating the improper use of "rape" and indicating an adulterous relationship......they were to be pure and set apart.  She wasn't forced to marry a rapist, she was forced to marry the man she gave her virginity to.  The term "young woman" often implies virginity.  Virginity is to be given to her husband.  Therefore the man in question is to be her husband since marriage and sex is highly regarded by God.

Today's world wants to make marriage a bad situation and treat sex as casual and carefree and fun.....trading evil for good.  You have no regard for sex and God's standards in reference to it.  You define it according to your subjective presuppositions and Godless worldview.  "It feels good so what's wrong with that?"  God is the objective standard....the bar....the ultimate degree of righteousness and he says otherwise.  You like your sin you so you dismiss God as irrational and vindictive and carry on trading good for evil.  The world's standards are grounded in subjective opinions and whimsy.  Whatever god abhors the world wants to legalize and justify as good.

When God wiped out nations of pagan folks it's because they came into the fullness of their sin and God passed judgment upon them.  Pregnant, pagan women that would've given birth to future Godless pagans that would've been eternally separated from God were wiped out.  God had had enough of their wickedness and generation after generation of children brought into the world and destroyed by the influence of their reprobate elders.  These unborn children were innocent and brought to God's kingdom before the generations of pagans before them could corrupt them and separate them from him permanently.

Why do you side with evil and hate righteousness?  

Yes, because he is God and he is good and rigtheous and holy and the ultimate standard is his law and will always supercede our opinions.  Don't want righteousness then move along and give someone else an opportunity to be saved.