So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Primemuscle]

Marriage is man's invention? Where was it established? What's the first recorded instance? What are some of the popular inventions of cats or dogs (these can be of the domestic or wild variety)?

You are making comparisons which are illogical. Marriage and monogamy are not the same thing, although The Bible presents marriage as a divine institution.

Though marriage has ancient roots, until recently love had little to do with it.

"What marriage had in common was that it really was not about the relationship between the man and the woman," said Stephanie Coontz, the author of Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage "It was a way of getting in-laws, of making alliances and expanding the family labor force."

[Primemuscle]

I know and believe it.  You and others won't accept that.  Ok by me.

You believe this. Therefor you believe you know this.

[Man of Steel]

You believe this. Therefor you believe you know this.

It's up.  No it's down.
It's black. No it's white.
It's left. No it's right.
It's bad.  No it's good.
It's correct.  No it's incorrect.

All this nonsense is. 

[Dave D]

http://www.truthbeknown.com/   

Ro as I said you're a deep spiritual dude. What are your thoughts? Is there a God (it doesn't have to be the Christian version)?

If there is does God care?

 Does God owe his creation any explanation?

Do we owe God anything? Or is God an absentee parent deserving of our hate?

What I find so funny is those who believe there is no God that science can disprove Him (and of course those that say science is dangerous and wrong).

For THOUSANDS of years people believed the earth was flat. For 500 we've believed it's round. In both cases science explained those beliefs.

Science evolved.

People have discovered more in the last 100 years than all of history combined, think about that. That's pretty phenomenal.

Maybe one day soon science will finally offer verifiable evidence  there is no God, but don't be surprised when people don't believe it, we still have flat earthers today.

[Man of Steel]

Right, that's it. YOU'RE GETTING POEMED!!

Take 2 ==>>

Ask your questions Captain:

Question 1)

Question 2)

Question 3)

etc......

Are these your questions?

How can any man be so deluded as to claim that God literally did flood the world, drown everyone - the innocent too, and rightfully so, but we cannot be sure that he didn't magically remove their ability to feel pain as he drowned him?

The miraculous, tangible, special revelation of the Holy Spirit in my life when I surrendered my life to God.  It affirmed everything in scripture and that revelation has continued to this day.  I understand God's reality, his grace, his love, his mercy, etc....

You've already taken many passages of scripture as literal and attempted to justify them, as with the parable of Christ and the pigs, Noah's Ark etc, so if a man reads passages from the bible which instruct him to kill unbelievers and members of family who have sinned, and takes them as literal, is he right in doing so?

Are you referring to actual passages in scripture?  Is this an invented situation of your own making?   If God deems an event appropriate then it is even if I can’t comprehend it fully.  I trust in his goodness, grace, mercy and justice.   Why?  Because of the special revelation of his reality in my life.  I have faith in what I don't understand of his will because of the truth of his will he's revealed in my life and the confidence it brings.  

if God appeared before you and asked you to sacrifice your child as a test of faith, would you?

Given I know of Abraham’s example in scripture yes I would follow through, but I also know that God stopped Abraham after he was tested and didn't allow his child to die.
Without that knowledge of Abraham’s circumstance would my faith be as strong as Abraham’s if I were tested in the same manner?  I don’t know.


Now, what other questions am I missing.  I went fishing for you posts in this thread (even though I said I wouldn't) and came up with one post that contained these.

Did I answer everything or do you have other questions?

What are they?

Question 1)

Question 2)

Question 3)

etc.....

[Dave D]

Would God create this basis of direct disobedience? Really, an apple?

I am not sure what you mean in your opening paragraph. In retrospect, I first leaned this in Sunday school, like many of us did. It could have been any fruit, indeed it could have been anything. No one really knows. It is simply what many were taught....it is symbolic.

Did I ask why? I don't believe I did.

The consequences of what we do, either good or bad, are in the here and now.  

Prime I guess I don't know what you're asking on this or any of your other comments.

You are making comparisons which are illogical. Marriage and monogamy are not the same thing, although The Bible presents marriage as a divine institution.

Though marriage has ancient roots, until recently love had little to do with it.

"What marriage had in common was that it really was not about the relationship between the man and the woman," said Stephanie Coontz, the author of Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage "It was a way of getting in-laws, of making alliances and expanding the family labor force."

I'm well aware of the history of marriage. Western culture is responsible for the idea of "love based" matrimony  (although the Old Testament introduces the idea).

Your point was marriage is a man made invention. So is rape, imprisonment and pizza. Man invents everything. My comparison was made because your point was unknown or incomplete.

Monogamy works with swans. It has worked with man. If it's not your thing fine. But don't act like it's impossible.

[BigRo]

Ro as I said you're a deep spiritual dude. What are your thoughts? Is there a God (it doesn't have to be the Christian version)?

there is one divine source beyond name and form, containing name and form, as name and form

If there is does God care?

If I care then that is proof enough that god cares, for we are not separate from god.


Does God owe his creation any explanation?
its up to us to figure it out and make our own meaning


Do we owe God anything? Or is God an absentee parent deserving of our hate?

does my foot owe my brain anything?

What I find so funny is those who believe there is no God that science can disprove Him (and of course those that say science is dangerous and wrong).

For THOUSANDS of years people believed the earth was flat. For 500 we've believed it's round. In both cases science explained those beliefs.

Science evolved.

People have discovered more in the last 100 years than all of history combined, think about that. That's pretty phenomenal.

Maybe one day soon science will finally offer verifiable evidence  there is no God, but don't be surprised when people don't believe it, we still have flat earthers today.

Science is going outside of its realm of functionality when it attempts to prove or disprove spiritual origin. For that we need a different methodology altogether.

[Primemuscle]

Prime you're a strange dude.

If you read the question I quoted I was asking if he meant NE's were permissible as opposed to masturbation. My point was if it's subconscious then wouldn't it be considered a heart  (internal) issue.

Everyone is so worked up over sex.

Why?

People display self control regarding sex every day and everyday there are people who don't have self control. A man can't just mate any woman he wants whenever he wants, we define that as rape. So everyday people display sexual self control. Those who don't are usually labeled criminals.

If you're married  be married, enjoy being faithful to your partner . If that doesn't work or you have some of different relationship fine.

If you're single do you.  If you want to sleep with multiple people than by all means.

If you can't to committed rrelationships dont. But don't get mad when people are hurt and upset by your choice.

I prefer eccentric to strange.

At my age, I don't get very worked up about sex. Abstinence would be fairly easy for me. I'm not ready to abstain though.  

It is a myth, however, that males "must ejaculate" regularly to get rid of built-up sperm. It's true that "unused" semen is absorbed back into the body, and that you don't "need" to ejaculate regularly to live a healthy and fulfilling life. This doesn't mean that wet dreams won't be more likely if you do not regularly orgasm, as there has been no scientific study that's proven a correlation between sexual activity and wet dreams.

“Orgasm relives tension as oxytocin stimulates feelings of warmth and relaxation” Carol Rinkleib Ellison

In 1997, a group of researchers in Wales decided to look into the relationship between orgasms and mortality. They studied the sexual frequency of 918 men between the ages of 45 and 59. They evaluated those who died from coronary heart disease and discovered that those who had two or more orgasms a week died at a rate half of those who had orgasms less than once a month. The researchers concluded that “sexual activity seems to have a protective effect on men’s health.” Findings from the Caerphilly cohort study

[Dave D]

I appreciate your thoughts bro.

[Raymondo]

It is me I that asked you to keep your answers succinct in this thread.

Small correction there (grammar nazism).

Otherwise, carry on. Your posts rock.

[Dave D]

Jesus Christ, It's barely been about twenty minutes, hardly a need for a "take 2". Suddenly you're all ears when you know there's a poeming on the horizon!

Firstly, It is me that asked you to keep your answers succinct in this thread. Don't be trying to impose a "short and sweet" on me when you can't manage it yourself; secondly, you don't need to go fishing for them, It's not like you haven't already seen them and just chose to ignore them. Nonetheless, Let's just go with these:

Question 1) Is it not somewhat nonsensical for God to have created a pig, granted it quite a high degree of intelligence and ability to feel pain, and then demonised it, declared it as unclean and allowed it to be used as a sacrificial object to exorcise demons with?

Question 2) You've already tried to answer this one vaguely by suggesting that Jesus rocked up in the New Testament to cancel out God's old orders of killing your family if they worship other gods, so just to clarify - You are saying it is wrong for people to kill their family for idolatry, but it was fine before Jesus came?

Question 3) Given that you've claimed to have experienced God's presence before, as well as that of Angels and Demons (if i am not mistaken), Would you sacrifice your child and "give up their "worldly existence" if God asked you to?

Question 4) As for you quoting out of Deuteronomy, what difference would it make if it was your original words or an article which you posted in support of your stance? Are you saying that you personally repudiate all of its passages and do not believe them to have come from God? Or could Deuteronomy be correct when it comes to drug use, but wrong nowadays, when it comes to sacrificing your family?

No need for excessive logorrheas, let's keep the answers short and sweet, please.  

You make great points and as I've said to others I understand why you don't share these beliefs. Your questions cause me to evaluate my stance.

I know you haven't addressed me but I'll give this a shot though I don't think it'll change your opinion (not that I'm trying to).

1) good question and if you remember the whole story the community was mad as well that Jesus let the pigs go over the cliff. I think the bigger message Jesus sent that day was that a humans life is more valuable than other life (that said I'd be upset if it were my heard of pigs).

2) Idk Mos's stance nor the context of the original question but killing people for idolatry was an acceptable practice, it didn't always happen much like we have discrepancies our legal system today.

3) I once had someone ask me what if God told them to sell drugs? My only response was if that's what you really think that is what God is telling you to do and that's the area where you feel like you should obey Him, above all other area, well you shouldnt get mad if you're shot, robbed and/or imprisoned. Because that's obviously part of the plan if you're going to break the law.

So if someone took the Abraham stance to sacrifice their child (they'd be wrong biblically because Jesus was the final sacrifice) and went through with it they should expect everything that would come with murdering a child.


4) I'm not sure context so i have no answer


Very good questions.

[Man of Steel]

Question 1) Is it not somewhat nonsensical for God to have created a pig, granted it quite a high degree of intelligence and ability to feel pain, and then demonised it, declared it as unclean and allowed it to be used as a sacrificial object to exorcise demons with?

Just your subjective opinion.  You don’t agree with God.  And?   I trust in God’s objective standards.   That simple.  He used a herd of pigs to help free an entire region of people from the oppression and possession of demons.  I trust his judgment.

Here is the link to the pig thread….all my responses included:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=589225.0#quickreply

Question 2) You've already tried to answer this one vaguely by suggesting that Jesus rocked up in the New Testament to cancel out God's old orders of killing your family if they worship other gods, so just to clarify - You are saying it is wrong for people to kill their family for idolatry, but it was fine before Jesus came?

I don’t know what “rocked up in the New Testament” means.

You’re referring to laws specific for the Israelites which I addressed already in this thread today.

Here are today’s replies (I shortened them here):

Given the book mentioned do you have a question about something pertaining to the specific laws for Israelites?  The Israelites are God's chosen folks and as such they were to be set apart in every facet of their lives from the world around them.  Their existence was such that everything done was in order to be holy and pure representatives of God.  They had specific dietary laws, clothing laws, sacrificial laws, tithing laws, hygiene laws, etc.....

A big "no-no" was putting false gods before God (or having any part of false gods).  You can't be part of the chosen, set apart folks and give worship to man-made, demonic, false gods.....punishment was death.  Gentiles were grafted into the nation of Israel, but Christ's salvific work eliminated the sacrificial laws yet upheld the moral laws (10 commandments...with the exception of Sabbath law) and removed Gentile involvement from old dietary, clothing, hygeine, tithing laws, etc.....the new testament is a new covenant.

So in this case we need some historical context.  

Objectors of these verses typically envision and portray the Israelites worshipping fun-loving, happy-go-lucky, false gods of flowers, puppies and rainbows.    And whichever of the pure of heart Israelites chose to worship these sugary-sweet, gentler than gentle, kinder than kind false gods was put to death by the vindictive, murderous, jealous, bitter, petty, vile God of the Hebrews!!  BOOOOOOOO Hebrew God!  How could you?!!  

Not the case.  

Pagan worship was anything but smiles, puppies and candy bars.  It was live infant sacrifice via burning to death on white hot altars to Molech.  It was self-mutilation within ceremonies of sexual perversion and the whoring of young women in demonic rituals to Baal.  It was demonic rituals of witchcraft/sorcery and further ritualistic sexual perversion and whoring of women to the pagan goddess Asherah.  It was carnal, it was dark, it was twisted, it was evil, it was demonic and it destroyed countless innocents.

So, if an Israelite defied his/her sacred covenant with God and chose to participate in the evil worship and practices of false pagan gods such as Baal, Asherah and Molech they lost their wretched lives for it.  These folks traded new and righteous life in order to corrupt and destroy the lives of others.

Do I believe God was just?  Absolutely.  If a person is going to break a righteous covenant with God and engage in acts that pervert and murder innocents then it's absolutely just that your life be forfeit as punishment.  

Question 3) Given that you've claimed to have experienced God's presence before, as well as that of Angels and Demons (if i am not mistaken), Would you sacrifice your child and "give up their "worldly existence" if God asked you to?

Just answered this above.

Here was my reply:

Given I know of Abraham’s example in scripture yes I would follow through, but I also know that God stopped Abraham after he was tested and didn't allow his child to die.
Without that knowledge of Abraham’s circumstance would my faith be as strong as Abraham’s if I were tested in the same manner?  I don’t know.

Dave is exactly correct though, Jesus Christ is the ultimate sacrifice so the question is bascially void...the circumstance wouldn't happen....it's merely a thought experiment.

Question 4) As for you quoting out of Deuteronomy, what difference would it make if it was your original words or an article which you posted in support of your stance? Are you saying that you personally repudiate all of its passages and do not believe them to have come from God? Or could Deuteronomy be correct when it comes to drug use, but wrong nowadays, when it comes to sacrificing your family?

I don’t agree with every word written in articles or remember every facet of every article posted, but I post things up for the sake of discussion.   There’s no activity on the board.  In general I agree with most things posted in their entirety.    Sometimes I put articles up just to stimulate discussion.

What does make a difference is the example you’re referring to.  I need context to understand your questions.  Show me which of my posts referred to Deuteronomy or which article I posted that referred to it.  Then we can discuss…..as intended.  Or better yet.  Go to the thread that interests you and begin discussing.

What drug use are you referring to in Deuteronmony?  I don’t have the book memorized.  

Have all your questions been addressed now between this post and one above (to you)?

[Raymondo]

There is a world of difference between Dave D's and Man of Steel's posts.

The former answers relatively to the point and his replies show a confident believer who is not afraid of showing vulnerability.

[Dave D]

Thank you for taking the time to answer, Dave. It is good to hear that you are willing to evaluate your stances. It is something i frequently do, also.

There is a world of difference between Dave D's and Man of Steel's replies.

The former answers relatively to the point, which shows a confident believer who is not afraid of showing vulnerability.

Thanks guys, as I said you guys bring up great logical points that really cause me to think. I know things can get heated quickly, that's the beauty of getbig, but you guys know MOS he's a passionate dude, he was before he knew Jesus so of course he will be afterwards.

Mos is a good dude.

[Primemuscle]

Prime I guess I don't know what you're asking on this or any of your other comments.

I'm well aware of the history of marriage. Western culture is responsible for the idea of "love based" matrimony  (although the Old Testament introduces the idea).

Your point was marriage is a man made invention. So is rape, imprisonment and pizza. Man invents everything. My comparison was made because your point was unknown or incomplete.

Monogamy works with swans. It has worked with man. If it's not your thing fine. But don't act like it's impossible.

I must be coming across as contrary, which I did not intend. The written word is often misunderstood. When folks discuss things in person, it is easier to clear up misunderstandings.

My religious background is with Religious Science (not to be confused with Christian Science). Religious Science is considered metaphysical. Religious Science is not contrary to other Religions, which explains why one will find folks of many different faiths attending services. You could describe Religious Science and me as coming from the standpoint of "live and let live." Having said this, I also have formed over the years personal beliefs. I am not interested in convincing anyone to believe as I do.

In my opinion it is important to believe in something bigger than ourselves. This manifests in many different ways and beliefs. I pretty much accept any belief which is not evil or harmful to others. In this thread, BigRo comes closest to me in his thinking. He is spiritual and he's doesn't impose his beliefs on others. My guess would be that he is completely at peace much of the time.

Unfortunately, I have the bad habit to taking the bait and then engaging in discussions I probably shouldn't and being annoying or seemingly contrary to other folks. I took note of Man of Steel's comments on things being black or white just for the sake of argument. The truth is I see things in shades of gray and not black or white. Man of Steel seems honorable and committed to his beliefs. I respect him for this.

I believe monogamy is very possible and probably more prevalent than we know. It is not clear to me how you came to the conclusion I believed it wasn't possible. 

 

[Man of Steel]

Sorry, MOS. My laptop crashed before i could post my original reply; i'll keep this one short. Yes you have answered my questions, and in the manner which i expected. To summarise:

God is free to abuse and harm animals; he created them and you have no need to question his judgement. He is also free to kill unbelievers and pagans; you believe this is justified and again, have no reason to doubt his morality. Killing your family for idolatry was fine if you were an Israelite as they were God's chosen people and held to a higher standard - which resulted in death if it was not upheld. Nowadays, this would be unacceptable as Jesus decided to contradict this by eliminating the sacrificial laws but uphold the moral laws. Yes you would kill your child if God asked you to; you have the benefit of scripture to know that it is likely he would stop you at the last minute, but without this knowledge, you would be slightly more hesitant.

Thanks for clarifying.

Exactly the reply I expected.  Could have written it myself.

[10pints]

Was having my post-shower wank the other day, the door bell rings, I remember I have an amazon delivery due. I cut the wank 10 shuffles short of the vinegar stroke, strap my hampton to my stomach using the band of my thermal underwear, chuck on a t-shirt and shorts, run downstairs, open the door......Fucking god squadders wanting to convert me! I just say:"you have got to be kidding me.." and shut the door in their face before they can say anything.

[Raymondo]

Exactly the reply I expected.  Could have written it myself.

Why don't you leave the condescension aside for a moment? The guy took the trouble of carefully reading your post, including posts you quoted in order to craft a neat and concise summary, out of what in my own opinion, is sheer nonsense. This sort of thing that takes effort and there is zero hostility in his summary. Can you not see this?

You owe Captain Freedom an honest and even tempered reply.

[Man of Steel]

Why don't you leave the condescension aside for a moment? The guy took the trouble of carefully reading your post, including posts you quoted in order to craft a neat and concise summary, out of what in my own opinion, is sheer nonsense. This sort of thing that takes effort and there is zero hostility in his summary. Can you not see this?

You owe Captain Freedom an honest and even tempered reply.

AHAHAHAHHAH

[Raymondo]

Thank you. I've come to expect this from Man of Steel. I simply wanted to bring an end to our conversation by providing a brief summary which would allow others to understand where I was coming from when I questioned him. I don't believe I misrepresented him at all but this isn't the first time he has reacted in this way, and I doubt it will be the last.

They do this all the time. You could have spent half and hour shifting through all that shit. And they just wave your response aside.

Ignorant, arrogant, cowardly, disrespectful behaviour.

[mazrim]

Why don't you leave the condescension aside for a moment? The guy took the trouble of carefully reading your post, including posts you quoted in order to craft a neat and concise summary, out of what in my own opinion, is sheer nonsense. This sort of thing that takes effort and there is zero hostility in his summary. Can you not see this?

You owe Captain Freedom an honest and even tempered reply.

Lol, worst attempt at obvious trolling I've seen in awhile. So terrible it was almost a literal "lol".

[BigRo]

Was having my post-shower wank the other day, the door bell rings, I remember I have an amazon delivery due. I cut the wank 10 shuffles short of the vinegar stroke, strap my hampton to my stomach using the band of my thermal underwear, chuck on a t-shirt and shorts, run downstairs, open the door......Fucking god squadders wanting to convert me! I just say:"you have got to be kidding me.." and shut the door in their face before they can say anything.

lol

[Man of Steel]

Was having my post-shower wank the other day, the door bell rings, I remember I have an amazon delivery due. I cut the wank 10 shuffles short of the vinegar stroke, strap my hampton to my stomach using the band of my thermal underwear, chuck on a t-shirt and shorts, run downstairs, open the door......Fucking god squadders wanting to convert me! I just say:"you have got to be kidding me.." and shut the door in their face before they can say anything.

Perfect example of the world.

[BigRo]

what should he have done Man of Steel? Confessed that he was in the middle of having a wank and let them in to intervene?

[10pints]

Perfect example of the world.

I know, these deluded god squadders, always trying to stop others from having a good time.....