So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Man of Steel]

what should he have done Man of Steel? Confessed that he was in the middle of having a wank and let them in to intervene?

He should've done exactly what he did....whatever he wants to.

[Man of Steel]

I know, these deluded god squadders, always trying to stop others from having a good time.....

Well, technically you stopped your fun to go get your Amazon package and had the package not been expected the fun would've continued regardless of the door, correct?

Hey, it doesn't matter.  I just liked your example.

[10pints]

Well, technically you stopped your fun to go get your Amazon package and had the package not been expected the fun would've continued regardless of the door, correct?

Hey, it doesn't matter.  I just liked your example.

Perhaps, in an alternate universe, where no one believed in god, and didn't go round pressing random people's doorbells, I ejaculated. Who knows?

[Primemuscle]

Was having my post-shower wank the other day, the door bell rings, I remember I have an amazon delivery due. I cut the wank 10 shuffles short of the vinegar stroke, strap my hampton to my stomach using the band of my thermal underwear, chuck on a t-shirt and shorts, run downstairs, open the door......Fucking god squadders wanting to convert me! I just say:"you have got to be kidding me.." and shut the door in their face before they can say anything.

Since you were otherwise occupied, why answer the door?

[Agnostic007]

Special revelation of God in believers validates the words of scripture.

That's why there's only one denomination. All believers have the same understanding of the words of scripture because of the revelations from God.... oh wait... there are hundreds upon hundreds of denominations ALL claiming to have the right revelation. Something you might expect to see if a book of various manuscripts translated and updated over the years would cause......that was written by man for man     

[Agnostic007]

Exactly the reply I expected.  Could have written it myself.

No, no you couldn't.. it's way too direct and clear

[Primemuscle]

That's why there's only one denomination. All believers have the same understanding of the words of scripture because of the revelations from God.... oh wait... there are hundreds upon hundreds of denominations ALL claiming to have the right revelation. Something you might expect to see if a book of various manuscripts translated and updated over the years would cause......that was written by man for man     

First Commandment: Join not anything in worship with God

Second Commandment: Be good and dutiful to parents

Third Commandment: Kill not your children because of poverty

Forth Commandment: Come not near to "shameful" sins whether committed openly or secretly

Fifth Commandment: Kill not anyone whom God has forbidden

Sixth Commandment: Come not near to the orphan’s property, except to improve it, until he (or she) attains the age of full strength

Seventh Commandment: Give full measure and full weight with justice

Eight Commandment: Whenever you speak, say the truth even if a near relative is concerned

Ninth Commandment: Fulfill the Covenant of God

Tenth Commandment: And, indeed, this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow other paths, for they will separate you away from His Path.  This He has ordained for you that you may become pious

[Agnostic007]

First Tables of Stone (Exodus 20)
 ("which Moses didst break")
 
 
Second Tables of Stone (Exodus 34)
 ("the words that were on the first")
 
 

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.
 
   
1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).
 
 

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.
 
   
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
 
 

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
 
   
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.
 
 

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
 
   
4. All the first-born are mine.
 
 

5. Honor your father and your mother.
 
   
5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.
 
 

6. You shall not kill.
 
   
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
 
 

7. You shall not commit adultery.
 
   
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.
 
 

8. You shall not steal.
 
   
8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.
 
 

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
 
   
9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.
 
 

10. You shall not covet.
 
   
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
 
 
Beats these 2 sets of Commandments from the bible

[Agnostic007]

Ten Punishments
 (Let's post these in the schoolroom!)
 
 

1. Exodus 22:20: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
 
 

2. Leviticus 24:16: And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death.
 
 

3. Exodus 31:15: Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
 
 

4. Exodus 21:15: He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
 
 

5. Exodus 21:17: He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
 
 

6. Exodus 22:19: Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
 
 

7. Leviticus 20:13: If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.
 
 

8. Leviticus 20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
 
 

9. Mark 16:16: He that believeth not, shall be damned.
 
 

10. Malachi 2:1-4: And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name, ... behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.

 

[Necrosis]

High quality book, full of reason.

[Agnostic007]

High quality book, full of reason.

Certainly not a book written from the perspective of men some 2000 years ago... not with all that talk about beating your slave is okay as long as you don't kill them because they are your property or throwing feces in your face. That has god written all over it  

I don't know, anyone who has actually read the bible and still thinks a god had a hand in it concerns me...The reality is very few take the time to read the whole thing during their lifetime, so the preacher is able to cherry pick and put his spin on it to make it more plausible. Those people, I kind of get it.. they were raised from birth in that atmosphere and that's all they know. But someone who actually read it cover to cover and still concludes it's true... wow..

[BigRo]

nearly as bad as the Koran all that.

[Man of Steel]

That's why there's only one denomination. All believers have the same understanding of the words of scripture because of the revelations from God.... oh wait... there are hundreds upon hundreds of denominations ALL claiming to have the right revelation. Something you might expect to see if a book of various manuscripts translated and updated over the years would cause......that was written by man for man     

In reality the number of denominations is drastically reduced as compared to you "hundreds and hundreds".  The vast majority of differences in Christian denominations often come down to styles of worship and adiaphora. Now, there are a bunch (probably thousands) of different Christians churches (this is true), but each church isn't a different denomination (that is false).

Essentials of Christian theology are pretty solid between the vast majority of denominations....it's secondary matters (more non essentials) where there are differences....that is true.   Still "hundreds and hundreds" or "thousands and thousands".....not correct.

Under divine inspiration, various men were the agents used by God to put the words on paper.  Are there different translations?  Yes.  Are most pretty solid yes.  Are there a few not so great translations.  Yes.   That's not a secret nor is it reason to condemn the faith....it's an excuse for God haters.

[Dave D]

That's why there's only one denomination. All believers have the same understanding of the words of scripture because of the revelations from God.... oh wait... there are hundreds upon hundreds of denominations ALL claiming to have the right revelation. Something you might expect to see if a book of various manuscripts translated and updated over the years would cause......that was written by man for man     

Excellent point. The multiple denominations  has always been an issue for me personally. Ultimately I view it as people who grow up in the same household (or go to the same school, work, basically  around the same people all the time) and have completely different perspectives of their parents.  Both are valid views because they're shaped by their interactions  and experiences.

Or if you tell a group of people one idea and the group was spilt by what they took away as the important  concept.

Bringing it back to the denominations, people get involved and have their perspective and  things get complicated.

Undoubtedly there are frauds, but again that's  people playing others, it's in all walks of life.

[Agnostic007]

In reality the number of denominations is drastically reduced as compared to you "hundreds and hundreds".  The vast majority of differences in Christian denominations often come down to styles of worship and adiaphora. Now, there are a bunch (probably thousands) of different Christians churches (this is true), but each church isn't a different denomination (that is false).

Essentials of Christian theology are pretty solid between the vast majority of denominations....it's secondary matters (more non essentials) where there are differences....that is true.   Still "hundreds and hundreds" or "thousands and thousands".....not correct.

Under divine inspiration, various men were the agents used by God to put the words on paper.  Are there different translations?  Yes.  Are most pretty solid yes.  Are there a few not so great translations.  Yes.   That's not a secret nor is it reason to condemn the faith....it's an excuse for God haters.

When I ask myself.. what would a book look like that was not only inspired by a supernatural being, but that being took a hand in crafting it, and would answer questions about the book either personally or through divine revelation of a holy spirit, it looks nothing like what exists today. In my view, there would be no need for the Carthage council where dozens of manuscripts were reviewed and voted on to be included in the final book. There would not be mention in the final book of manuscripts that don't appear in it. It wouldn't change over time depending on who was in power (King James 1604-1611) and there would be zero contradictions. These "minor" disagreements as you refer to them wouldn't exist. One church wouldn't believe you have to be baptized in water to be saved and the other think it unnecessary. Or one group wouldn't claim it says once saved always saved and the other say you can lose your salvation. Musical instruments in some churches are prohibited while others it is full blown rock band. It wouldn't condone things we now agree are reprehensible just because at the time it was written those things were morally acceptable.  I could go on and on but the bottom line is, the current bible has mans fingerprints all over it and the results are exactly what one would expect if it originated with humans and not a god.

It's no excuse for God haters as you like to call people who don't share your personal belief in a supernatural being based on lack of evidence, it is just one of the  reasons to continue to lack belief   

[Man of Steel]

First Tables of Stone (Exodus 20)
 ("which Moses didst break")
  
  
Second Tables of Stone (Exodus 34)
 ("the words that were on the first")
  
 

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.
  
  
1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).
  
 

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.
  
  
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
  
 

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  
  
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.
  
 

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  
  
4. All the first-born are mine.
  
 

5. Honor your father and your mother.
  
  
5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.
  
 

6. You shall not kill.
  
  
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
  
 

7. You shall not commit adultery.
  
  
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.
  
 

8. You shall not steal.
  
  
8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.
  
 

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  
  
9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.
  
 

10. You shall not covet.
  
  
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
  
 
Beats these 2 sets of Commandments from the bible

These kinds of tricks of atheist sites are terrific for those who aren't going to read the bible but reject it outright regardless of their ignorance.  Most won't know this is "smoke and mirrors", but I do.

What you've stated here is both deceptive and false.

So, in Exodus 20 the 10 commandments are given to Moses on stone tablets.  Later Moses became enraged when he witnessed the idolatry and evil of the Israelites upon his return and he smashed the tablets.

Then we jump to Exodus 34 and read the following verse:

Exodus 34:1
34 Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered.

The second time God himself replicated the writing on tablets, but instructed Moses to cut out the second (new) pair of tablets (since he destroyed the first).  

After this passage of scripture concludes is where the "smoke and mirrors" occurs.  We have a passage in which the Lord makes a new covenant with Israel in preparation for the land they will inherit.  

Exodus 34:10
10 Then God said, “Behold, I am going to make a covenant. Before all your people I will perform miracles which have not been produced in all the earth nor among any of the nations; and all the people among whom you live will see the working of the Lord, for it is a fearful thing that I am going to perform with you.

This section of 25-26 verses of scripture do not twist and distort the 10 commandments previously given....it states the covenant and decrees within it.

The passage concludes with the following instruction to Moses:

Exodus 34:27
27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

The reality was that the Israelites were subject to dozens upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of divine laws and decrees for all sort of situations.

The 10 commandments remained the same 10 commandments from the original tablets to the replacement tablets.
 

[10pints]

MOS, all these walls of scripture, why not put as much effort in learning other, non-religious texts? You may learn something new.

[Man of Steel]

MOS, all these walls of scripture, why not put as much effort in learning other, non-religious texts? You may learn something new.

There was three short verses of scripture and a refutation of what was presented above.  That wall of text can be read in under a minute.

I've already taken university level biology, genetics, physics, chemistry, organic chemistry, psychology, sociology, geology, calculus, finance, accounting, marketing, management, etc...my passion is my faith and theology.

[Dave D]

Certainly not a book written from the perspective of men some 2000 years ago... not with all that talk about beating your slave is okay as long as you don't kill them because they are your property or throwing feces in your face. That has god written all over it  

I don't know, anyone who has actually read the bible and still thinks a god had a hand in it concerns me...The reality is very few take the time to read the whole thing during their lifetime, so the preacher is able to cherry pick and put his spin on it to make it more plausible. Those people, I kind of get it.. they were raised from birth in that atmosphere and that's all they know. But someone who actually read it cover to cover and still concludes it's true... wow..

You make many interesting points. Out of all the absurd stories you could have used (Noah and the ark and the flood, anything from Babylon, Samson, and so on) you focus on God allowing slaves to be beat, I'm assuming  making the point that it wasn't God but man making that rule.

I say this over and over here, but I mean it and hope you know I'm being honest, that you're intelligent and well informed.

That said slavery has always been a part of mankind's history. We've "outlawed" it today, labeling it barbaric and oppressive but it still is practiced in less developed countries (sex trade industry ). In the west we are enslaved but we choose to call it debt, and look at it as a part of life.

Without going on a long tirade slavery is practiced throughout the bible, in the Christian view you are either a slave to God or a slave to Satan. Whether people think that's right or wrong, just or unjust isn't the point, that's God's system (from the Christian perspective).

Undoubtedly the books were written from a perspective of their time, and they were relevant to that Era for thousands of years ( and to prove that even though weve become so advanced and that the ideas in the books are out dated we need to remember it's only been since the 1960s that African Americans have been considered "equal" with whites).

There's nothing unusual about that. The rules were important for that time. The old testament was a recounting of the Hebrew nation and it's struggles. The idea that God labeled these people as His chosen is/can be offensive but that's neither here nor there. It would have made no sense to have rules for speed limits or aircraft travel because those things were irrelevant to those people and the time period.

Fast forward to today and the Christian view is that Jesus did away with the laws and rules that people couldn't adhere to (and make no mistake the multiple rules and laws were set up to show man how unclean he was in front of a Holy God, that it was impossible to keep those rules and that was the significance of the death of the Christ, to do away with the laws that kept man separated from God).

There are rules from the old testament that can be beneficial today, but Jesus left us with the golden rule, love others as you love yourself and love God wholeheartedly.


I hope I didn't wonder off topic....

[Dave D]

When I ask myself.. what would a book look like that was not only inspired by a supernatural being, but that being took a hand in crafting it, and would answer questions about the book either personally or through divine revelation of a holy spirit, it looks nothing like what exists today. In my view, there would be no need for the Carthage council where dozens of manuscripts were reviewed and voted on to be included in the final book. There would not be mention in the final book of manuscripts that don't appear in it. It wouldn't change over time depending on who was in power (King James 1604-1611) and there would be zero contradictions. These "minor" disagreements as you refer to them wouldn't exist. One church wouldn't believe you have to be baptized in water to be saved and the other think it unnecessary. Or one group wouldn't claim it says once saved always saved and the other say you can lose your salvation. Musical instruments in some churches are prohibited while others it is full blown rock band. It wouldn't condone things we now agree are reprehensible just because at the time it was written those things were morally acceptable.  I could go on and on but the bottom line is, the current bible has mans fingerprints all over it and the results are exactly what one would expect if it originated with humans and not a god.

It's no excuse for God haters as you like to call people who don't share your personal belief in a supernatural being based on lack of evidence, it is just one of the  reasons to continue to lack belief   

All valid points 100%.

However is there any field of life where people are in 100% agreement on everything? Scientists disagree about known facts, corporations disagree about focus, married couples disagree about friends.

People are people and when we get involved things get complicated. I agree that people of God should be held to higher standards, but getting 100% agreement on any idea is rare let alone multiple ideas.

Even biblically speaking there's multiple accounts of the people  (collectively as well as individually) disagreeing with God, the very one they were having divine encounters with....... why would we expect it to be different today?

[Agnostic007]

These kinds of tricks of atheist sites are terrific for those who aren't going to read the bible but reject it outright regardless of their ignorance.  Most won't know this is "smoke and mirrors", but I do.

What you've stated here is both deceptive and false.

So, in Exodus 20 the 10 commandments are given to Moses on stone tablets.  Later Moses became enraged when he witnessed the idolatry and evil of the Israelites upon his return and he smashed the tablets.

Then we jump to Exodus 34 and read the following verse:

Exodus 34:1
34 Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered.

The second time God himself replicated the writing on tablets, but instructed Moses to cut out the second (new) pair of tablets (since he destroyed the first).  

After this passage of scripture concludes is where the "smoke and mirrors" occurs.  We have a passage in which the Lord makes a new covenant with Israel in preparation for the land they will inherit.  

Exodus 34:10
10 Then God said, “Behold, I am going to make a covenant. Before all your people I will perform miracles which have not been produced in all the earth nor among any of the nations; and all the people among whom you live will see the working of the Lord, for it is a fearful thing that I am going to perform with you.

This section of 25-26 verses of scripture do not twist and distort the 10 commandments previously given....it states the covenant and decrees within it.

The passage concludes with the following instruction to Moses:

Exodus 34:27
27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

The reality was that the Israelites were subject to dozens upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of divine laws and decrees for all sort of situations.

The 10 commandments remained the same 10 commandments from the original tablets to the replacement tablets.
 

Hmmmm...nice... but no...

[Agnostic007]

All valid points 100%.

However is there any field of life where people are in 100% agreement on everything? Scientists disagree about known facts, corporations disagree about focus, married couples disagree about friends.

People are people and when we get involved things get complicated. I agree that people of God should be held to higher standards, but getting 100% agreement on any idea is rare let alone multiple ideas.

Even biblically speaking there's multiple accounts of the people  (collectively as well as individually) disagreeing with God, the very one they were having divine encounters with....... why would we expect it to be different today?

Dave,

If there was a religious group that worshipped Tom Clancy as their God and his  work "The Hunt For Red October" as being written by their God, AND Tom Clancy was alive to answer any and all questions they had about the book, how many denominations of Clanciers would you think would develop due to disagreements over what the book said? Think about it. 

[Dave D]

Dave,

If there was a religious group that worshipped Tom Clancy as their God and his  work "The Hunt For Red October" as being written by their God, AND Tom Clancy was alive to answer any and all questions they had about the book, how many denominations of Clanciers would you think would develop due to disagreements over what the book said? Think about it.  

Good point.

However we have legions of Star War fanatics that argue with George Lucas, the inventor of that "world".

I think you're assuming that people are all rational and intelligent like yourself. We forget that the vast majority of people are simpletons, and behave accordingly.

[Agnostic007]

Exodus 34King James Version (KJV)

34 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.

3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.

4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.

5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23 Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.

25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

[Agnostic007]

Good point.

However we have legions of Star War fanatics that argue with George Lucas, the inventor of that "world".

I think you're assuming that people are all rational and intelligent like yourself. We forget that the vast majority of people are simpletons, and behave accordingly.

but..well...uh...but.... .. yeah.. you have a point there