So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Agnostic007]

Hard suppression of the truth of God's existence (that everyone already knows) in order to mentally avoid accountability for sins committed against him and most importantly to keep on sinning.

It's an ugly reality that most refuse to face, but the reality nonetheless.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. You have this personal belief you developed likely from youth that the bible is true. It has many many fantastic yarns that are similar to stories told in accepted fairytales like Jack and the Bean Stalk. You accept these unbelievable stories as true and then have the gall to paint others who don't believe such nonsense as somehow just suppressing the "truth" of this fairytale god because we some how give a rats ass about what he thinks about what we do...because we like to keep on sinning. Seems to me you are forgetting that Christians KEEP ON SINNING on the same level and often times worse than non believers and apparently get forgiven on a regular basis. This tends to nullify your hypothesis, because if we really did believe in this god of yours, we wouldn't have to change a thing.   

[bigmc]

Yes and people know the reality of God.   Some suppress it and fight it and try to make it go away....say something enough times to convince themselves it isn't real.   If something truly doesn't concern you you don' bother a moment about it.

i really dont have knowledge that god exists

ive never had to fight something i have never had

i dont think belief in god stacks up to scrutiny on any level

be great if there was a god

[Man of Steel]

Same with the doubt of believers, always stuffin' it back down.

Not sure what you mean?  You're welcome to clarify.

[Necrosis]

Hard suppression of the truth of God's existence (that everyone already knows) in order to mentally avoid accountability for sins committed against him and most importantly to keep on sinning.

It's an ugly reality that most refuse to face, but the reality nonetheless.

so god is accountable to no one? even his creations? non-sense. Is a father no beholden to his child? because he created him he can do as he pleases? that's so north korea logic right there, you want to be a slave. Sorry relationships go both ways, love does not exist in the presence of worship, how could it.

[Man of Steel]

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. You have this personal belief you developed likely from youth that the bible is true. It has many many fantastic yarns that are similar to stories told in accepted fairytales like Jack and the Bean Stalk. You accept these unbelievable stories as true and then have the gall to paint others who don't believe such nonsense as somehow just suppressing the "truth" of this fairytale god because we some how give a rats ass about what he thinks about what we do...because we like to keep on sinning. Seems to me you are forgetting that Christians KEEP ON SINNING on the same level and often times worse than non believers and apparently get forgiven on a regular basis. This tends to nullify your hypothesis, because if we really did believe in this god of yours, we wouldn't have to change a thing.   

Christians that keep on sinning on the same level and often times worse are not Christians....this is a nominal Christian or a false convert.   

An individual that becomes a Christian has a transformation within them....they're made perfect and righteous in Christ and no longer seek for the things of this world.  We are filled with Holy Spirit and in that state are sanctified for God's good will and purposes. 

Scripture states that those the continue in willful sin after having received the knowledge of truth (in Jesus Christ) no longer have an advocate before the Father.  Essentially, if you know the truth and claim to accept the truth of Christ's salvation yet willfully deny his commands and continue living for the world (in sin) that Christ will not act as advocate before the Father in the time of judgment.  This points directly as those that were false conversions or nominal Christians.  You can't be made righteous in Christ and continue sinning as you once did.  That's continuing to abide by your will and not that of God and you can't remain steeped in sin and be aligned with Christ....you can't, that simple.

Here's how atheists respond to this:  "That's the no true scotsman fallacy."   No, it isn't LOL.  This fallacy references the denial of others according to the behaviors of men and their subjectivity....it measures man according to standards of men.  Christians measure other Christians according to God's standards.....the ultimate standard.    We prescribe to the objectivity of God.  We know what genuine belief entails and we measure and hold each other accountable according to a standard that transcends men.  When you have the ultimate authority for guidance and someone fails to measure up to that standard we (as believers) can make that righteous judgment confidently.

[Man of Steel]

so god is accountable to no one? even his creations? non-sense. Is a father no beholden to his child? because he created him he can do as he pleases? that's so north korea logic right there, you want to be a slave. Sorry relationships go both ways, love does not exist in the presence of worship, how could it.

Why would God who is the ultimate standard of righteousness, justice, grace, mercy and love be accountable to his creation?  Because you say so?  And?

If God were accountable he wouldn't be God.  That which he would be accountable to would be God and and so forth and so on.....an infinite regression that doesn't work.

Your personal lack of humility has no bearing on God or any standard by which other men should be required to follow....it's subjective standards.  Believers prescribe to the ultimate, objective standards of God.

What is worship?  And tell me about your experience with worship and the love of God?  

[Yamcha]

This thread, summarized:

[Agnostic007]

Christians that keep on sinning on the same level and often times worse are not Christians....this is a nominal Christian or a false convert.   

An individual that becomes a Christian has a transformation within them....they're made perfect and righteous in Christ and no longer seek for the things of this world.  We are filled with Holy Spirit and in that state are sanctified for God's good will and purposes. 

Scripture states that those the continue in willful sin after having received the knowledge of truth (in Jesus Christ) no longer have an advocate before the Father.  Essentially, if you know the truth and claim to accept the truth of Christ's salvation yet willfully deny his commands and continue living for the world (in sin) that Christ will not act as advocate before the Father in the time of judgment.  This points directly as those that were false conversions or nominal Christians.  You can't be made righteous in Christ and continue sinning as you once did.  That's continuing to abide by your will and not that of God and you can't remain steeped in sin and be aligned with Christ....you can't, that simple.

Here's how atheists respond to this:  "That's the no true scotsman fallacy."   No, it isn't LOL.  This fallacy references the denial of others according to the behaviors of men and their subjectivity....it measures man according to standards of men.  Christians measure other Christians according to God's standards.....the ultimate standard.    We prescribe to the objectivity of God.  We know what genuine belief entails and we measure and hold each other accountable according to a standard that transcends men.  When you have the ultimate authority for guidance and someone fails to measure up to that standard we (as believers) can make that righteous judgment confidently.

Christians are no better morally than non Christians. Yet ask any person in any church on any given sunday to raise their hand if they believe they are Christian and every single hand will raise. That YOU decide they can't be Christian because it goes against what you THINK ought to be is silly. It's not my problem you Christians talk the talk but don't walk the walk.. 

[Agnostic007]

Why would God who is the ultimate standard of righteousness, justice, grace, mercy and love be accountable to his creation?  Because you say so?  And?

If God were accountable he wouldn't be God.  That which he would be accountable to would be God and and so forth and so on.....an infinite regression that doesn't work.

Your personal lack of humility has no bearing on God or any standard by which other men should be required to follow....it's subjective standards.  Believers prescribe to the ultimate, objective standards of God.

What is worship?  And tell me about your experience with worship and the love of God?  

If your god is the ultimate standard of justice mercy and love, god help us all.. pun intended

[Man of Steel]

Christians are no better morally than non Christians. Yet ask any person in any church on any given sunday to raise their hand if they believe they are Christian and every single hand will raise. That YOU decide they can't be Christian because it goes against what you THINK ought to be is silly. It's not my problem you Christians talk the talk but don't walk the walk.. 

Correct which is why we abide by God's objective, perfect standards as opposed to our own subjective, imperfect standards.  We measure one another according to God.

[Rascal full]

Excuse me MOS, in your mind do you see God taking male form as a human being? Do you picture him with a muscular torso and long grey beard? Please don't think I am insulting you I am genuinely interested in what you think.

[Man of Steel]

Excuse me MOS, in your mind do you see God taking male form as a human being? Do you picture him with a muscular torso and long grey beard? Please don't think I am insulting you I am genuinely interested in what you think.

It's a great question.  

Jesus Christ is God incarnate and is a male...we know this from scripture.  Given the region he lived and ministered in I would expect he'd look something like the following (maybe darker....but like those from the region and that which he descended in the Davidic line):

 

Isaiah 53:2
For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.

God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are both spirit form and are basically immaterial.  We read of images of the God the Father as spirit and brilliant light.

[Rascal full]

It's a great question. 

Jesus Christ is God incarnate and is a male...we know this from scripture.  Given the region he lived and ministered in I would expect he'd look something like the following (maybe darker....but like those from the region and that which he descended in the Davidic line):

 

Isaiah 53:2
For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.

God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are both spirit form and are basically immaterial.  We read of images of the God the Father as spirit and brilliant light.

Thank you. I appreciate the way you stand your ground here and always answer people's questions in a thorough manner.

[Man of Steel]

Thank you. I appreciate the way you stand your ground here and always answer people's questions in a thorough manner.

I appreciate that.  I don't always have good answers (or sometimes any answer), but I consider it a privilege to stand for Jesus Christ.

[The Ugly]

Not sure what you mean?  You're welcome to clarify.

The presuppositional nonsense, guy. "Everyone knows" couldn't be more dishonest or insulting, especially when the opposite is more often true. Many believers are regularly filled with doubt, I certainly was. Enveloped in it, really. None at all now, not an iota.

Just doesn't mesh with your book is all.

[MoralMan]

What if...theres a being even more powerful than God that even God doesn't know about waiting in the wings to overthrow God when he or she or it is ready!

[Necrosis]

Why would God who is the ultimate standard of righteousness, justice, grace, mercy and love be accountable to his creation?  Because you say so?  And?

If God were accountable he wouldn't be God.  That which he would be accountable to would be God and and so forth and so on.....an infinite regression that doesn't work.



Your personal lack of humility has no bearing on God or any standard by which other men should be required to follow....it's subjective standards.  Believers prescribe to the ultimate, objective standards of God.

What is worship?  And tell me about your experience with worship and the love of God?  

So he is a dictator? great@! I love indebted servitude forced upon me in order to avoid eternal torture. That's love guys.

How do you know someone loves you? he forces you to obey him. A relationship goes both ways. He has conditions on his love, that's bullshit, that's not a relationship but slavery, by definition.



God has no ultimate objective standards, by whom's standard, the bible's LMAO. Objective means quantifiable, you have no idea what you are saying, there is no verifiable moral or godly standard, nothing, only in your mind which is subjective. If it was objective there would be no debate, like how gravity is objective, not subjective. Things fall whether I want them to or not, objective.



God has to be held accountable for his creation, how could he not? he created it? he created the bone cancer that killed the 6 year old I was with in the hospital, or is that sin passed down You know who else punishes people for their fathers sins? North Korea... when the only comparable thing we can find to god is north korea something is wrong. If my father murders someone should I be put on trial for murder? this is the logic god uses, it's absurd and frankly sick.

God sounds like he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants, demand what he wants, can wipe everything out, can cause untold suffering and cannot be questioned, where do I sign up?

If anyone treated their child like god treats his supposed children they would have the kids removed instantly. He tells us we are born bad, born sick and ordered to get well, fuck that, why? sounds more like the devil to me.

[Necrosis]

Correct which is why we abide by God's objective, perfect standards as opposed to our own subjective, imperfect standards.  We measure one another according to God.

You can't use words like perfect, objective if you don't know what they mean, you are making them meaningless. Perfect is without fault, I can find all sorts of fault and errors, it's not objective at all, you are confused.

[BigRo]

why cant Jesus be better looking than that? Robert Powell in Jesus of Nazareth for instance.

[Dave D]

Christians are no better morally than non Christians. Yet ask any person in any church on any given sunday to raise their hand if they believe they are Christian and every single hand will raise. That YOU decide they can't be Christian because it goes against what you THINK ought to be is silly. It's not my problem you Christians talk the talk but don't walk the walk.. 

I think the great misconception of Christians is that they are "better" or "superior" morally.

Christians are not born into their faith, it's an acceptance of God's ways and plans. Christianity is a lifestyle.

When you ask where do Christians come from, what is there background you'll see that they're very diverse. However the common denominator for most is that they were hurt, broken people, in one way or another. These backgrounds and experiences then all fall under the larger umbrella of Christianity.  If you thought their were to many denominations think about each individual trying to adhere to a new lifestyle....

So when you have a large diverse group of people, many who don't initially know/agree, let alone practice them, with some of beliefs or morality standards, it's easy to understand why Christians are just as corrupt as the world.

The word Christian evokes many connotations. Even non Christians "know how real believers" should behave.

The truth is if most lived  how they thought "Christians" should live the world would be a better place.

[BigRo]

I was just meditating there and thinking about what is humility. What came to mind was a state of being that is completely non rigid due to an absence of clinging to concepts about anything whatsoever. A total trust in the unknown, an abiding faith beyond any particular belief, and that such a state is identical with enlightenment.

[Man of Steel]

The presuppositional nonsense, guy. "Everyone knows" couldn't be more dishonest or insulting, especially when the opposite is more often true. Many believers are regularly filled with doubt, I certainly was. Enveloped in it, really. None at all now, not an iota.

Just doesn't mesh with your book is all.

Actually it's directly from scripture in Romans and Psalms (New and Old Testaments).  All know God exists via his creation so that none are without excuse.

It's not my presupposition or opinion....scripture is the source.

[The Ugly]

why cant Jesus be better looking than that? Robert Powell in Jesus of Nazareth for instance.

Sucks, huh? Imagine spending eternity worshipping the same dude your mortal self shooed away with pocket change by the 7-11 dumpster.

[Dave D]

So he is a dictator? great@! I love indebted servitude forced upon me in order to avoid eternal torture. That's love guys.

How do you know someone loves you? he forces you to obey him. A relationship goes both ways. He has conditions on his love, that's bullshit, that's not a relationship but slavery, by definition.



God has no ultimate objective standards, by whom's standard, the bible's LMAO. Objective means quantifiable, you have no idea what you are saying, there is no verifiable moral or godly standard, nothing, only in your mind which is subjective. If it was objective there would be no debate, like how gravity is objective, not subjective. Things fall whether I want them to or not, objective.



God has to be held accountable for his creation, how could he not? he created it? he created the bone cancer that killed the 6 year old I was with in the hospital, or is that sin passed down You know who else punishes people for their fathers sins? North Korea... when the only comparable thing we can find to god is north korea something is wrong. If my father murders someone should I be put on trial for murder? this is the logic god uses, it's absurd and frankly sick.

God sounds like he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants, demand what he wants, can wipe everything out, can cause untold suffering and cannot be questioned, where do I sign up?

If anyone treated their child like god treats his supposed children they would have the kids removed instantly. He tells us we are born bad, born sick and ordered to get well, fuck that, why? sounds more like the devil to me.

Excellent points.

The bible talks about God as a king and His kingdom. So the structure would be that of a monarchy as opposed to a dictator.  And again slavery is a theme throughout the bible, the idea that you're either a slave to God or a slave to satan, so you're correct with your assessment.

Again your points are spot on. However from the Christian perspective the sufferings, pains and troubles of this life are expected. The bible is a recording of sufferings, where God ultimately shows up as the hero, the christian world view is that we are passing through this life, we weren't meant to live here forever.  

Again your points are well thought.

[Man of Steel]

So he is a dictator? great@! I love indebted servitude forced upon me in order to avoid eternal torture. That's love guys.

How do you know someone loves you? he forces you to obey him. A relationship goes both ways. He has conditions on his love, that's bullshit, that's not a relationship but slavery, by definition.



God has no ultimate objective standards, by whom's standard, the bible's LMAO. Objective means quantifiable, you have no idea what you are saying, there is no verifiable moral or godly standard, nothing, only in your mind which is subjective. If it was objective there would be no debate, like how gravity is objective, not subjective. Things fall whether I want them to or not, objective.



God has to be held accountable for his creation, how could he not? he created it? he created the bone cancer that killed the 6 year old I was with in the hospital, or is that sin passed down You know who else punishes people for their fathers sins? North Korea... when the only comparable thing we can find to god is north korea something is wrong. If my father murders someone should I be put on trial for murder? this is the logic god uses, it's absurd and frankly sick.

God sounds like he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants, demand what he wants, can wipe everything out, can cause untold suffering and cannot be questioned, where do I sign up?

If anyone treated their child like god treats his supposed children they would have the kids removed instantly. He tells us we are born bad, born sick and ordered to get well, fuck that, why? sounds more like the devil to me.

You didn't answer my questions.  You asked 6 new questions.