So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Man of Steel]

So h abhors sin and is supremely righteous. But:

• He hardens the Pharaoh's heart, directly causing the slaughter of Egypt's first-born (Exodus 4:21);
• He will exact "vengeance" on those that don't know God by burning them in fire (1 Thessalonians 1:7-9);and
• He visits the iniquities of the parents on the children (Jeremiah 32:10), kills the children if their parents worship other deities (Jeremiah 16:10) and condemns the Jews as the sons of those who killed the Prophets (Matthew 23:31).

Yeah... he is supremely righteous alright.


You fail to explain why all this was necessary. Remember, the key point of your religion is that your God sent himself to be sacrificed so that he would be appeased and his "wages of sin is death" pronouncement be met by proxy. Why not just say "aww, shucks... I forgive all of you. Let's not shed any blood!" And please don't hide behind the "well, I don't know but this is what God chose to do and who am I to second guess God" defense.

I am asking you a serious question: if the Christian God is all-powerful and all-knowing (which is certainly the way he is portrayed) then why did he send Jesus to die to then absolve those who believe through the blood of Christ? Why not just forgive everyone unconditionally? Isn't that what true love is?

And, remember, this is the same God that, supposedly, created every single one of us knowing with absolute and unerring certainty and finality what we would choose in the end and whether we'd end saved or not when all was said and done because we don't have a say in the matter (Romans 8:29, Ephesians 1:4). Which means that we are, in essence, being forced to play a game with loaded dice and to, when the inevitable losses rack up, pay up.

Forgive me if I find nothing righteous about your God. In fact, I find him deeply immoral and everything about him is offensive to me.

All questions have been asked by you (of me) and answered by me repeatedly in the past.  Multiple discussions have taken place and the answers haven't changed.

Why a fourth time?

[bigmc]

All questions have been asked by you (of me) and answered by me repeatedly in the past.  Multiple discussions have taken place and the answers haven't changed.

Why a fourth time?

you never answer the questions properly

its ethier the god is 100 percent right who are we to question him vibe

or pasting multiple quotes which are open to interpretation

try answering his question using logic and rational facts

and not spouting patronising shit that any one of any detectable intelligence would pick to pieces

[Man of Steel]

No I give correct and solid answers.  Some questions can be more thoroughly answered than others.

But for most atheists the answers don't matter and are always predetermined to be insufficient...it's a game y'all play.

I personally no longer care anything about the atheist opinion on God.  I still answer questions and all that but if I've done that repeatedly I stop.

The fact that an atheist finds God evil doesn't concern me anymore.  It's simply woeful ignorance I can't overcome...final choices have been made.

Others that haven't made a choice can read for themselves and make a choice about God but I'm not gonna rehash the same things with the same people over and over.   I could care less if I say yes and some atheist says no.

[avxo]

All questions have been asked by you (of me) and answered by me repeatedly in the past.  Multiple discussions have taken place and the answers haven't changed.

Why a fourth time?

Well, we have to do something to pass the time until the rapture

[bigmc]

No I give correct and solid answers.  Some questions can be more thoroughly answered than others.

But for most atheists the answers don't matter and are always predetermined to be insufficient...it's a game y'all play.

I personally no longer care anything about the atheist opinion on God.  I still answer questions and all that but if I've done that repeatedly I stop.

The fact that an atheist finds God evil doesn't concern me anymore.  It's simply woeful ignorance I can't overcome...final choices have been made.

Others that haven't made a choice can read for themselves and make a choice about God but I'm not gonna rehash the same things with the same people over and over.   I could care less if I say yes and some atheist says no.

then you arent a good christian

you should be spreading the word without throwing tantrums when people challenge your point of view

which you cant back up with fact

you shouldnt be scared to debate the points

[Man of Steel]

Well, we have to do something to pass the time until the rapture

Fair enough.    

For the record, I don't support the modern pre-tribulation rapture teachings.   

[Man of Steel]

then you arent a good christian

you should be spreading the word without throwing tantrums when people challenge your point of view

which you cant back up with fact

you shouldnt be scared to debate the points

Oh no?  Well, I've probably given the gospel message in some form or fashion on these boards a few thousand times.

It's also the top pinned thread on the religion board that never changes.

I don't continue to preach the gospel over and over to those that have clearly rejected it....that's foolishness.

Even still, why should I take advice on "proper Christianity" from an atheist LOL.

Throwing tantrums LOL....just a cliche thing to say to any post you don't like and nothing more.

My views challenged and scared to debate??  I have thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of posts replying and discussing all sorts of things related to theology, history, the bible, Jesus Christ, Christianity, etc......but you know that.  I debate 1 on 1, 3 on 1, 5 on 1 and 8 on 1....have for years and have in this very thread.

Ball pitched and then sent over the fences.

[BigRo]

Debates like these never convince the opposing factions to change their minds. They only strengthen them. Its stimulating intellectually but never gets anywhere.  Thats why I never invest myself in them. I may throw in something now and then but whether it is accepted or rejected doesn't make much of a difference to anyone. I am of the belief that to get in touch with the spiritual behind appearances in a way that is personally meaningful (not to win a debate or change the world) one must transcend the mundane level of awareness in illuminating insight, deep meditation, heartfelt devotion and self forgetting service.

[bigmc]

Oh no?  Well, I've probably given the gospel message in some form or fashion on these boards a few thousand times.

It's also the top pinned thread on the religion board that never changes.

I don't continue to preach the gospel over and over to those that have clearly rejected it....that's foolishness.

Even still, why should I take advice on "proper Christianity" from an atheist LOL.

Throwing tantrums LOL....just a cliche thing to say to any post you don't like and nothing more.

My views challenged and scared to debate??  I have thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of posts replying and discussing all sorts of things related to theology, history, the bible, Jesus Christ, Christianity, etc......but you know that.  I debate 1 on 1, 3 on 1, 5 on 1 and 8 on 1....have for years and have in this very thread.

Ball pitched and then sent over the fences.

i have never read a fact based answer from you

its all on the assumption that the scripture written by man is taken as the word of god

thats not fact thats an assumption

[10pints]

i have never read a fact based answer from you

its all on the assumption that the scripture written by man is taken as the word of god

thats not fact thats an assumption

You can't expect facts from someone with whom an ontological argument swings on a 2000 year old work of fiction. It stands that anything following this premise would be a bunch of self-referential codswallop. Which, shocker, is what you get.

Plus, he has already admitted that he is not open to reason on the issue of Christ not being the son of God. He is hardly likely to proffer reasonable responses on a subject he is immune to reason on, hence his choosing to opt out of answering / acknowledging certain questions.

[Agnostic007]

Debates like these never convince the opposing factions to change their minds. They only strengthen them. Its stimulating intellectually but never gets anywhere.  Thats why I never invest myself in them. I may throw in something now and then but whether it is accepted or rejected doesn't make much of a difference to anyone. I am of the belief that to get in touch with the spiritual behind appearances in a way that is personally meaningful (not to win a debate or change the world) one must transcend the mundane level of awareness in illuminating insight, deep meditation, heartfelt devotion and self forgetting service.

More often than not they don't. However there are occasions in my life where I have talked with someone about religion, discussing my reasons for not believing the bible is true and had them follow up some time later and eventually drop the belief. I suspect they were already wondering about some of the same things I did, and hearing someone else question those as well gave them the catalyst they needed to give it an honest review.

[Conker]

god does appear every now and then. i'v had a few instances throughout my life, getting out of scrapes where i have instantly thought god must have been behind that.

then again i'm probably just closer to god than the rest of the heathens on here 

[loco]

Oh no?  Well, I've probably given the gospel message in some form or fashion on these boards a few thousand times.

It's also the top pinned thread on the religion board that never changes.

I don't continue to preach the gospel over and over to those that have clearly rejected it....that's foolishness.

Even still, why should I take advice on "proper Christianity" from an atheist LOL.

Throwing tantrums LOL....just a cliche thing to say to any post you don't like and nothing more.

My views challenged and scared to debate??  I have thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of posts replying and discussing all sorts of things related to theology, history, the bible, Jesus Christ, Christianity, etc......but you know that.  I debate 1 on 1, 3 on 1, 5 on 1 and 8 on 1....have for years and have in this very thread.

Ball pitched and then sent over the fences.

[SupplementGuy]

You can't expect facts from someone with whom an ontological argument swings on a 2000 year old work of fiction. It stands that anything following this premise would be a bunch of self-referential codswallop. Which, shocker, is what you get.

Plus, he has already admitted that he is not open to reason on the issue of Christ not being the son of God. He is hardly likely to proffer reasonable responses on a subject he is immune to reason on, hence his choosing to opt out of answering / acknowledging certain questions.

You miss the whole point though. Just because you need some specific man made criteria to be fulfilled in order for you to consider something a fact and to believe it does not invalidate it in the real world nor does it prove that you are right and that one that believes the Bible as truth to be wrong. It simply makes you a nonbeliever and the other a believer.

There is no reason to be angry with or hate anyone that has a different belief system than you.

I personally believe in the Bible as the word of God and true and try my best to live according to it. If you think that's crazy or don't believe that's your opinion and I wish you well. The important thing to me is that I present a case as a witness to my beliefs and whether or not that message is rejected does not reflect on me but on the hearer and is between each person and God.

[Agnostic007]

You miss the whole point though. Just because you need some specific man made criteria to be fulfilled in order for you to consider something a fact and to believe it does not invalidate it in the real world nor does it prove that you are right and that one that believes the Bible as truth to be wrong. It simply makes you a nonbeliever and the other a believer.

There is no reason to be angry with or hate anyone that has a different belief system than you.

I personally believe in the Bible as the word of God and true and try my best to live according to it. If you think that's crazy or don't believe that's your opinion and I wish you well. The important thing to me is that I present a case as a witness to my beliefs and whether or not that message is rejected does not reflect on me but on the hearer and is between each person and God.

technically it does....

[Rami]

For those that believe in God. What do you think God look like? You think he some sort of physical being? How you know God hasn't appeared?

[Man of Steel]

i have never read a fact based answer from you

its all on the assumption that the scripture written by man is taken as the word of god

thats not fact thats an assumption

Sure you have.  You all have.  Most of you simply deny every bit of it.  You don't like the facts presented so you invent ones that you do....that's it.

[SupplementGuy]

technically it does....

Again, you miss the entire point. You claim to be agnostic therefore you question everything. Being agnostic isn't about telling everyone else they're wrong. And again, those who subscribe to a higher power aren't limited to man's definition of fact based upon man's criteria of what is right or wrong.

Have a nice evening!

[Man of Steel]

For those that believe in God. What do you think God look like? You think he some sort of physical being? How you know God hasn't appeared?

God the Father and the Holy Spirit are spirit.   The Father is depicted as bathed in light.

Jesus Christ is a human man.  Dark skin, kinky curly black hair, dark eyes, thick beard and moustache....like the men of the region.

Scripture says nothing about his appearance would draw attention to him.

[avxo]

God the Father and the Holy Spirit are spirit.

What does that mean?

The Father is depicted as bathed in light.

How can something non-corporeal, like a spirit, be bathed in anything?

[Alfurinn]

It's a bodybuilding board, of course there would be more non-believers than believers.

My impression was that there were more believers than non-believers in the bodybuilding world. There is a stereotype about bodybuilders and bodybuiling fans having authoritarian personalities usually linked to or influenced by religious (christian) beliefs, despite the fact that several biblical passages can be interpreted as against bodybuilding from different aspects of the activity.

But to be fair, not all believers are like that, in fact , many are genuinely kind people.

[bigmc]

Sure you have.  You all have.  Most of you simply deny every bit of it.  You don't like the facts presented so you invent ones that you do....that's it.

your facts are based on a book you claim was written by god through mans hands

those arent facts skippy

[Parker]

My impression was that there were more believers than non-believers in the bodybuilding world. There is a stereotype about bodybuilders and bodybuiling fans having authoritarian personalities usually linked to or influenced by religious (christian) beliefs, despite the fact that several biblical passages can be interpreted as against bodybuilding from different aspects of the activity.

But to be fair, not all believers are like that, in fact , many are genuinely kind people.

Bodybuilders tend to be narcisstic individuals who lift weights, develop their bodies (and competitively show their bodies) for attention and in many ways the adoration of others. Also take into account the generational aspect,
God takes attention away from the individual bodybuilder. Bodybuilders honed their physiques to physical perfection to be like the Gods of Mt. Olympus. Bodybuilders are their own Gods, only in human form.

[Necrosis]

You miss the whole point though. Just because you need some specific man made criteria to be fulfilled in order for you to consider something a fact and to believe it does not invalidate it in the real world nor does it prove that you are right and that one that believes the Bible as truth to be wrong. It simply makes you a nonbeliever and the other a believer.

There is no reason to be angry with or hate anyone that has a different belief system than you.

I personally believe in the Bible as the word of God and true and try my best to live according to it. If you think that's crazy or don't believe that's your opinion and I wish you well. The important thing to me is that I present a case as a witness to my beliefs and whether or not that message is rejected does not reflect on me but on the hearer and is between each person and God.

what? lol, sorry facts are facts and not open to debate, there is but one truth.

you are in a fantasy land.

[10pints]

You miss the whole point though. Just because you need some specific man made criteria to be fulfilled in order for you to consider something a fact and to believe it does not invalidate it in the real world nor does it prove that you are right and that one that believes the Bible as truth to be wrong. It simply makes you a nonbeliever and the other a believer.

There is no reason to be angry with or hate anyone that has a different belief system than you.

I personally believe in the Bible as the word of God and true and try my best to live according to it. If you think that's crazy or don't believe that's your opinion and I wish you well. The important thing to me is that I present a case as a witness to my beliefs and whether or not that message is rejected does not reflect on me but on the hearer and is between each person and God.

See above, re: self referential codswallop.

Not missing any point, it is simple: you rely on empirical facts in every other area of your existence, then throw them out the window, because you believe in something completely bat shit crazy, and try and convince others of the same.

A lot of people who participate in this thread are not even atheists, they just object to the promotion of stupidity over reason, facts and rational thinking.

How can I prove I am right, when the whole basis of your argument rests on fiction? I can't. But those with a rational persuasion feel obliged to counteract the spreading of lunacy, in the hope that those who may be on the fence can make an informed choice.