Author Topic: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?  (Read 102882 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1000 on: April 12, 2016, 12:42:22 PM »
Satan wrote that book you think is from god. Of course it uses another name for the real one true god. You've been fooled


Necrosis

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1001 on: April 12, 2016, 01:26:48 PM »
Neil Degrasse Tyson. Smart man, god bless him.

nice. I use quotes or quips like this all the time and no one cares, no one till you :-*


Necrosis

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1002 on: April 12, 2016, 01:30:01 PM »
Romans 7:14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men5 because wall sinned—

Romans 8:7   For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.



2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.


The awesome thing about your religious book is almost everyone can be right.. it's just that poorly written


The book is terribly written, no god could inspire such contradictory screed.


Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1003 on: April 12, 2016, 01:49:21 PM »
The book is terribly written, no god could inspire such contradictory screed.



No god inspired it or could have inspired it. It has endless contradictions because it was written by men and men are endlessly contradictory.

avxo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1004 on: April 12, 2016, 01:50:21 PM »
There's only one God and Allah ain't it.  Sorry, way it is.  Come aboard or jump off....your choice.

The Muslims say the same thing... if one of you is right, the other is wrong. You assert you're right, but then so do they. You claim your grimoire proves you're right, but then again so do they. If anything, their nonsense is slightly more grounded to reality: they don't claim a virgin gave birth to a man-deity hybrid that's fully man and fully deity.


God has never sinned.

What do you mean by "sin"? If you mean "act against God's will" then your statement is vacuous. If there's some other, objective definition of sin, let's hear it. Then we can decide if God has ever sinned or not.


You're a creation of a righteous creator.

"You're a creation" - that's your completely unsubstantiated belief.

"a righteous creator" - that's also your completely unsubstantiated belief but even if we assume the Bible is 100% accurate "righteous" is hardly the use I'd use to describe your deity.


You can be sinful, he cannot.

Why? Apparently he abhors sin (you claim he's never sinned and that he, in fact, cannot) so assuming I was created by him, I can only conclude that either:

  • he meant for me to sin; or
  • he didn't mean for me to sin, but designed or manufactured me poorly enough so that I do sin.

Either way, punishing me for sinning is a douche move and makes him unworthy of respect, let alone worship.


He is eternal and his law is eternal and his justice is eternal.

It's unclear what "law is eternal" or "justice is eternal" means. But before we get to that, please explain


Spit on me and nothing may happen.  Spit on a police officer and you'll spend some time in jail.  Spit on the President and you may spend decades in jail.  Spit on an eternal God and you'll face an eternal fine.


Ah yes... this again...

You're doing the ol'switcheroo: you use the same word both literally and metaphorically. Spitting on you, a a cop or the President is almost certainly battery. Spitting on a spirit? That's a little different. You abuse words like that all the time... God's love is "infinitely" more "lovey" that plain-old human love. God's power? Why, it's "infinitely" more "powery" than plain-old human power. God's wrath? It, too, is infinitely more "wrathy" than the kind we have. Just another silly attempt to anthropomorphize your deity and try to work around the fact that you can't list his actual attributes so that we can evaluate whether a being that has those attributes is possible.

FREAKgeek

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1005 on: April 12, 2016, 03:14:39 PM »
The atheists in here are going to win every debate. And I'm not an atheist. Everything that the theist has put down on the table is unsubstantiated. We are emotionally driven. And as always, no homo. :)

SupplementGuy

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1006 on: April 12, 2016, 03:37:00 PM »
It's sad to see educated people in this thread (atheists and agnostics) unable or unwilling to ever consider that their belief or definition of truth and fact may be wrong.

Before one becomes a believer they are first convinced of the truth of what they are learning and then reject their old ways. This is not a process of shutting your mind off  it is a process of opening your mind to the realization that man is not the ultimate authority in the universe and being moved enough but your beliefs to make necessary changes in your life to live in harmony with God's will.

I get that you don't believe in what I believe in yet I do not speak disparagingly of you. I simply ask that you consider the possibility that what you believe in may not be the actual truth. (Science and belief in God are NOT mutually exclusive). The issue I have is that you cannot express your opinion in a civilized manner, but instead insult and make any real discussion or debate impossible.

Anyone can name call and shout insults. It takes courage to open your mind and actually discuss what you do not believe or agree with.

Even if no agreement is made after a discussion there's no reason to end the discussion with insults etc. It is okay to disagree with one another without hate.

SF1900

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1007 on: April 12, 2016, 03:41:01 PM »
It's sad to see educated people in this thread (atheists and agnostics) unable or unwilling to ever consider that their belief or definition of truth and fact may be wrong.

Before one becomes a believer they are first convinced of the truth of what they are learning and then reject their old ways. This is not a process of shutting your mind off  it is a process of opening your mind to the realization that man is not the ultimate authority in the universe and being moved enough but your beliefs to make necessary changes in your life to live in harmony with God's will.

I get that you don't believe in what I believe in yet I do not speak disparagingly of you. I simply ask that you consider the possibility that what you believe in may not be the actual truth. (Science and belief in God are NOT mutually exclusive). The issue I have is that you cannot express your opinion in a civilized manner, but instead insult and make any real discussion or debate impossible.

Anyone can name call and shout insults. It takes courage to open your mind and actually discuss what you do not believe or agree with.

Even if no agreement is made after a discussion there's no reason to end the discussion with insults etc. It is okay to disagree with one another without hate.

Yes, just like MOS who just stated that he is 100% correct and is not wrong. MOS has never considered the fact that he may be wrong.

And I simply ask you to consider the possibility that your God may not exist.

Try again.

X

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1008 on: April 12, 2016, 03:44:18 PM »
The Muslims say the same thing... if one of you is right, the other is wrong. You assert you're right, but then so do they. You claim your grimoire proves you're right, but then again so do they. If anything, their nonsense is slightly more grounded to reality: they don't claim a virgin gave birth to a man-deity hybrid that's fully man and fully deity.


What do you mean by "sin"? If you mean "act against God's will" then your statement is vacuous. If there's some other, objective definition of sin, let's hear it. Then we can decide if God has ever sinned or not.


"You're a creation" - that's your completely unsubstantiated belief.

"a righteous creator" - that's also your completely unsubstantiated belief but even if we assume the Bible is 100% accurate "righteous" is hardly the use I'd use to describe your deity.


Why? Apparently he abhors sin (you claim he's never sinned and that he, in fact, cannot) so assuming I was created by him, I can only conclude that either:

  • he meant for me to sin; or
  • he didn't mean for me to sin, but designed or manufactured me poorly enough so that I do sin.

Either way, punishing me for sinning is a douche move and makes him unworthy of respect, let alone worship.


It's unclear what "law is eternal" or "justice is eternal" means. But before we get to that, please explain

 

Ah yes... this again...

You're doing the ol'switcheroo: you use the same word both literally and metaphorically. Spitting on you, a a cop or the President is almost certainly battery. Spitting on a spirit? That's a little different. You abuse words like that all the time... God's love is "infinitely" more "lovey" that plain-old human love. God's power? Why, it's "infinitely" more "powery" than plain-old human power. God's wrath? It, too, is infinitely more "wrathy" than the kind we have. Just another silly attempt to anthropomorphize your deity and try to work around the fact that you can't list his actual attributes so that we can evaluate whether a being that has those attributes is possible.


Muhammad states that the words of God cannot be altered and are incorruptible and affirms the writings of Moses and the gospels specifically.  It therefore affirms the bible and the bible says there are not other valid teachings that differ from it therefore the Quran is false as is all of Islam.

Sin is an offense against God, a breaking of his law....I've explained this all before....repeatedly actually.

It’s unsubstantiated only by the body of unbelievers and that opinion is of zero concern or consequence to me…..I don’t take counsel on God from atheists.

He desires for you to be aligned with him in righteousness, but he allows you to choose to defy his will and have no God in your life and your eternity.  No one makes you sin or reject God.  Easy validation is that God wants you to choose him and today you’re still an atheist and will be again tomorrow and the day after that…..choices have been made.

We break laws so we get punished.  Laws are meaningless without consequences.  

God is eternal and therefore his law and justice are also eternal.

Yep, same example.  Good on that day and again today.  Atheists reject everything God related so no worries by me.  

See previous posts concerning attributes of God.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1009 on: April 12, 2016, 03:45:44 PM »
The atheists in here are going to win every debate. And I'm not an atheist. Everything that the theist has put down on the table is unsubstantiated. We are emotionally driven. And as always, no homo. :)

Unsubstantiated only from the perspective of unbelief that has no comprehension or experience with the things of God.

SupplementGuy

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1010 on: April 12, 2016, 03:46:01 PM »
Yes, just like MOS who just stated that he is 100% correct and is not wrong. MOS has never considered the fact that he may be wrong.

And I simply ask you to consider the possibility that your God may not exist.

Try again.



When did I write that I haven't considered that possibility?

I believe to my core that what I believe is true, but I didn't come to that conclusion without weighing all possibilities and making a decision based on information from myriad sources...

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1011 on: April 12, 2016, 03:47:36 PM »
When did I write that I haven't considered that possibility?

I believe to my core that what I believe is true, but I didn't come to that conclusion without weighing all possibilities and making a decision based on information from myriad sources...

I used to consider that possibility....did for years as well....part of my testimony on these boards.

Then I crashed headfirst into the Holy Spirit....that changed me forever.   I now have absolutely no doubts about God.  That confidence is offensive to most atheists.

FREAKgeek

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1012 on: April 12, 2016, 04:12:03 PM »
Unsubstantiated only from the perspective of unbelief that has no comprehension or experience with the things of God.


Yes, I know of your story, we have argued years ago. Peace brother.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1013 on: April 12, 2016, 04:36:53 PM »

Yes, I know of your story, we have argued years ago. Peace brother.

Have a good one!

avxo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1014 on: April 12, 2016, 04:38:26 PM »
Muhammad states that the words of God cannot be altered and are incorruptible and affirms the writings of Moses and the gospels specifically.  It therefore affirms the bible and the bible says there are not other valid teachings that differ from it therefore the Quran is false as is all of Islam.

Well, that'd be all nice and dandy, except the Bible itself has been "altered" through the ages, and Christians can't even agree on what it's supposed to say, much less on what it's supposed to mean. Oh, and that's a slight misrepresentation of what Muhammad, supposedly, said and how he intended it to be applied. But let's not worry about such small things ;)


Sin is an offense against God, a breaking of his law....I've explained this all before....repeatedly actually.

"Offense against God". What does that even mean? How can a non-corporeal, non-human entity be "offended"? More than that, how can I be sure that God has a law and that it's what you claim it to be? Or that he even exists? You can't keep putting the cart before the horse.


It’s unsubstantiated only by the body of unbelievers and that opinion is of zero concern or consequence to me…..I don’t take counsel on God from atheists.

It's unsubstantiated, period. That's perfectly fine and nothing (and nobody) is stopping you from believing something that's unsubstantiated, but don't pretend that your belief is based on anything short of "feels". There's no substantive difference between your belief and the belief of a someone who follows, say, Shamanism.

He desires for you to be aligned with him in righteousness, but he allows you to choose to defy his will and have no God in your life and your eternity.

If he desires this, why does he not reveal himself to me? I mean, he had no problem showing his ass to Moses (Exodus 33:23) and I'll just settle for a phonecall! So either he doesn't desire for me to be aligned with him in righteousness or his plan doesn't give him free nights-and-weekends calling.


No one makes you sin or reject God.

Not true: if noone makes me sin, then Jesus isn't needed because it would be possible to live a sinless life and achieve my own salvation and that would render your Messiah moot. Indeed, the central tenet of Christianity is that we're born with Original Sin and that we have a sinful nature that we cannot, on our own, escape. In other words, under the Christian ethos, it is impossible for me to not sin and that's the reason why Jesus is necessary: to save us since we can't help but sin by paying the price of sin for us.



Easy validation is that God wants you to choose him and today you’re still an atheist and will be again tomorrow and the day after that…..choices have been made.

One wonders, how I can make a choice when the Bible clearly says that it's all predetermined and God knows the outcome. There is no way to reconcile free will with the Bible.


We break laws so we get punished.  Laws are meaningless without consequences.

But it is, at least, possible for us to live without breaking human laws. The same is simply not possible with God's laws, which makes those laws unjust. And unjust laws shouldn't be followed.

Alfurinn

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1015 on: April 12, 2016, 08:04:09 PM »
It's sad to see educated people in this thread (atheists and agnostics) unable or unwilling to ever consider that their belief or definition of truth and fact may be wrong.

Before one becomes a believer they are first convinced of the truth of what they are learning and then reject their old ways. This is not a process of shutting your mind off  it is a process of opening your mind to the realization that man is not the ultimate authority in the universe and being moved enough but your beliefs to make necessary changes in your life to live in harmony with God's will.

I get that you don't believe in what I believe in yet I do not speak disparagingly of you. I simply ask that you consider the possibility that what you believe in may not be the actual truth. (Science and belief in God are NOT mutually exclusive). The issue I have is that you cannot express your opinion in a civilized manner, but instead insult and make any real discussion or debate impossible.

Anyone can name call and shout insults. It takes courage to open your mind and actually discuss what you do not believe or agree with.

Even if no agreement is made after a discussion there's no reason to end the discussion with insults etc. It is okay to disagree with one another without hate.

I think you are asking the right question to the wrong people.

Most atheists and agnotics have gone through a process, be it simply studying the bible out of curiosity and found controversial stuff or went through a process in their lives that led them to question the bible and start studying it to find the same controversies.

The question should be directed at believers because it is believers who usually assume everything the bible says is the truth without questioning. Most believers don't question the bible and most prefer not to for the fear of finding something that might make their beliefs succumb.

Believers put so much of their emotions and hopes on the bible or religion in general that it is difficult to even think about questioning it.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1016 on: April 13, 2016, 12:59:04 AM »
gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins

mos by his own standard accepts he is going to hell for eternity

you have to admire him for sticking with it

futile as it is
T

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1017 on: April 13, 2016, 04:03:54 AM »
It's sad to see educated people in this thread (atheists and agnostics) unable or unwilling to ever consider that their belief or definition of truth and fact may be wrong.

Before one becomes a believer they are first convinced of the truth of what they are learning and then reject their old ways. This is not a process of shutting your mind off  it is a process of opening your mind to the realization that man is not the ultimate authority in the universe and being moved enough but your beliefs to make necessary changes in your life to live in harmony with God's will.

I get that you don't believe in what I believe in yet I do not speak disparagingly of you. I simply ask that you consider the possibility that what you believe in may not be the actual truth. (Science and belief in God are NOT mutually exclusive). The issue I have is that you cannot express your opinion in a civilized manner, but instead insult and make any real discussion or debate impossible.

Anyone can name call and shout insults. It takes courage to open your mind and actually discuss what you do not believe or agree with.

Even if no agreement is made after a discussion there's no reason to end the discussion with insults etc. It is okay to disagree with one another without hate.

I am neither right or wrong, I simply don't see any evidence for a deity, I accept he could exist, but without evidence it's quite a claim to make.


Wiggs

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1018 on: April 13, 2016, 04:16:04 AM »
Man of Steel, I'm sure you've heard, "don't cast your pearls before swine". You're wasting your time with the scoffers.
7

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1019 on: April 13, 2016, 05:07:30 AM »
Man of Steel, I'm sure you've heard, "don't cast your pearls before swine". You're wasting your time with the scoffers.

says the uneducated, jobless pot head.

Dave D

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1020 on: April 13, 2016, 09:42:13 AM »
I am neither right or wrong, I simply don't see any evidence for a deity, I accept he could exist, but without evidence it's quite a claim to make.



This is the best and most honest response.

God isn't offended by those who require nor demand proof. He has shown Himself before so it is not out of the question to ask Him to do it again. Jesus had to reassure Thomas of his doubts, I'm sure He'd be aware of disbelief 2000 years later.

The fact is there is much we don't know, we are always learning; this is true with God and science.  It seems in Christianity many attribute superstitious beliefs to their faith, science tries eliminate superstition.

God declares He wants to be known, and if that's the case He can be measured and maybe one day science will develop a tool/technology  to record and document His existence.

Alfurinn

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1021 on: April 13, 2016, 10:22:58 AM »
God wants to be known yet he never shows himself nor is there any evidence of his presence.

And the same about Jesus. I think it is in Matthew that says that Jesus did so many miracles that piles of books could be written about all the miracles he did. If that was true then it is logical to think that other people would have written them down, in the end, a miracle is a supernatural phenomenon that would surprise any person. Wouldn't you feel the need to write on facebook that a guy did a miracle if you saw it with your own eyes?

There is no evidence of those so many miracles, except for the "chosen ones" no one else wrote about those miracles; not even the smallest piece of paper that a guy did this or that.


Donny

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1022 on: April 13, 2016, 11:11:57 AM »
Shinto knows no God just nature.

Donny

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1023 on: April 13, 2016, 11:37:48 AM »
 :)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1024 on: April 13, 2016, 12:12:53 PM »
The book is terribly written, no god could inspire such contradictory screed.



That's a go to answer for most critics that don't understand the material put before them and refuse to study in order to grasp it.