So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Raymondo]

Yes, but can you prove it or point me to evidence? Or is this a matter of faith?

[Man of Steel]

Yes, but can you prove it or is this a matter of faith?

This is grounded in historical study, study of linguistics, research of theologians and is always a matter of faith as well....it's all of the above.

But, as it pertains to the atheist, I am not at all concerned with the atheists opinion on scripture because I know nothing.....NOTHING....w ill satisfy as evidence or proof.

[Raymondo]

This is grounded in historical study, study of linguistics, research of theologians and is always a matter of faith as well....it's all of the above.

But, as it pertains to the atheist, I am not at all concerned with the atheists opinion on scripture because I know nothing.....NOTHING....w ill satisfy as evidence or proof.

You opinion of atheists notwithstanding, can you point me towards this historical study, study of linguistics, etc? I may not be able to accept research of theologians due to the issue of faith, however, someone who has "years and years of reading" must have numerous sources to back up the various claims made in the post.

[Man of Steel]

You opinion of atheists notwithstanding, can you point me towards this historical study, study of linguistics, etc? I may not be able to accept research of theologians due to the issue of faith, however, someone who has "years and years of reading" must have numerous sources to back up the various claims made in the post.

You can read Josh McDowell, Paul Copan, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler.

I have articles compiled and printed at home.  I have books at home. I have hyperlinks saved.  

I know what you're trying to do and I can't roll my eyes far back enough in my head.

Now you want me to cite everything, notate it and provide a bibliography section in my posts LOL....these tactics have been tried repeatedly in the past.

[bigmc]

game over 

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

[Man of Steel]

game over 

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

Why's that bigmc?

[bigmc]

some good parenting advice here 

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

[bigmc]

this seems reasonable

so religious service men blown apart by mines are to be cast aside 

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

[bigmc]

how many shirts you got man of pies 

Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same. Luke 3:11 NIV

[Man of Steel]

some good parenting advice here 

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

this seems reasonable

so religious service men blown apart by mines are to be cast aside 

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

Yes, the classic "my objections were soundly resolved by a previous post so now let's randomly go through the entire Pentateuch!!"

That'll show em!! 

[Raymondo]

You can read Josh McDowell, Paul Copan, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler.

I have articles compiled and printed at home.  I have books at home. I have hyperlinks saved.  

I know what you're trying to do and I can't roll my eyes far back enough in my head.

Now you want me to cite everything, notate it and provide a bibliography section in my posts LOL....these tactics have been tried repeatedly in the past.

Don't cite everything, just give me a simple historical reference towards your claims. I hope you will excuse my tendency to want to look at evidence for claims made.

I qoogled the names of the gentlemen provided. With the exception of William Lane Craig, none of them has obvious qualifications as a historian, in fact, all of them are theologians and apologists. Even Craig seems only to have been interested in the historical Jesus as far as history goes. Copan, who has written on slavery has degrees on biblical studies and philosophy of religion, but not history or linguistics (unless biblical studies includes those?)

Your post about Israelite culture only having allowed debt bondage is so specific that it must have historical sources behind it.

[Man of Steel]

Don't cite everything, just give me a simple historical reference towards your claims. I hope you will excuse my tendency to want to look at evidence for claims made.

I qoogled the names of the gentlemen provided. With the exception of William Lane Craig, none of them has obvious qualifications as a historian, in fact, all of them are theologians and apologists. Even Craig seems only to have been interested in the historical Jesus as far as history goes. Copan, who has written on slavery has degrees on biblical studies and philosophy of religion, but not history or linguistics (unless biblical studies includes those?)

Your post about Israelite culture only having allowed debt bondage is so specific that it must have historical sources behind it.

I'd have to go through books and look at bibliographies.  Gleason Archer is terrific linguist and theologian.  I've referred to his materials as well.

Like I said start with Paul Copan's book if it interests you.

Of course there's also a wonderful internet search tool used worldwide called Google....it can be found at www.google.com

Just saw your last sentence.  You're misrepresenting what I wrote.  I didn't state there was only direct "debt bondage".   I repeatedly note "slaves/servants" in my writing...either way they weren't to be mistreated...that's the point.

[Raymondo]

I'd have to go through books and look at bibliographies.  Gleason Archer is terrific linguist and theologian.  I've referred to his materials as well.

Like I said start with Paul Copan's book if it interests you.

Of course there's also a wonderful internet search tool used worldwide called Google....it can be found at www.google.com

Thanks for bringing google to my attention, however, the burden of proof is not on me to back up your claims, it's on you.

It would be a bit of a stretch for me to read Copan's books, because as I pointed out, he doesn't seem to be qualified in history and linguistics, and I would need historical evidence, not theological.

An example of historical evidence? A stone or pot unearthed in the area historically occupied by Israelites post-Egypt, carbon-tested and verified to have been from their time, with inscriptions in their language which when translated say something like the following:

"My brother in law caught some foreigners during a raid in their lands and suggested we enslave them. I told him to fuck off as they are not in debt to us. What he said was an affront to God and if our priest at the temple finds out there will be hell to pay!"

[Man of Steel]

Thanks for bringing google to my attention, however, the burden of proof is not on me to back up your claims, it's on you.

It would be a bit of a stretch for me to read Copan's books, because as I pointed out, he doesn't seem to be qualified in history and linguistics, and I would need historical evidence, not theological.

An example of historical evidence? A stone or pot unearthed in the area historically occupied by Israelites post-Egypt, carbon-tested and verified to have been from their time, with inscriptions which when translated say something like the following:

"My brother in law caught some foreigners during a raid in their lands and suggested we enslave them. I told him to fuck off as they are not in debt to us. What he said was an affront to God and if our priest at the temple finds out there will be hell to pay!"

I gotcha.  Yeah, best you don't read the books.  Copan and Archer and other theologians probably aren't qualified because you gave them a 20 second googling.

Oh!  Can't forget.  They don't have the pot with the inscription. 

Ok....ok.

[Necrosis]

some good parenting advice here 

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

this sounds nothing like the writings of superstitious morons.

[bigmc]

how many shirts do you have mos?

[Alfurinn]

[Man of Steel]

how many shirts do you have mos?

Between dress shirts, casual button down, flannels, short sleeve polo style, tshirts, long sleeve long john style,  etc.....60ish.  Some stuff is pretty old.

Do you need some shirts?   We donate clothes every quarter so let know.

[bigmc]

Between dress shirts, casual button down, flannels, short sleeve polo style, tshirts, long sleeve long john style,  etc.....60ish.  Some stuff is pretty old.

so you dont accept that the passage i quoted was the word of god

or you would just keep one and share the rest among the needy

[Man of Steel]

so you dont accept that the passage i quoted was the word of god

or you would just keep one and share the rest among the needy

What passage?  I didn't see one in your post.

[bigmc]

how many shirts you got man of pies 

Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same. Luke 3:11 NIV

this one

[Man of Steel]

this one

Oh I see it was higher up the page.

Yes, absolutely the idea is to give and give generously.  Yes, I agree with this for sure.   Great to be a generous giver.

We like to donate clothes multiple times throughout the year like I mentioned above.  My wife has two big ole bags in her car right now....primarily little girls clothes, but that was big donation this time around.  Middle and end of last year we gave a bunch of my stuff out.  We did some work in our house recently and came across clothes in storage.  Now that we're putting the house back together the majority of that clothing (all of which is current and in excellent condition) will be donated.

That help?

I actually don't like talking about our giving because my only audience is God, but because you asked.

[10pints]

Oh I see it was higher up the page.

Yes, absolutely the idea is to give and give generously.  Yes, I agree with this for sure.   Great to be a generous giver.

We like to donate clothes multiple times throughout the year like I mentioned above.  My wife has two big ole bags in her car right now....primarily little girls clothes, but that was big donation this time around.  Middle and end of last year we gave a bunch of my stuff out.  We did some work in our house recently and came across clothes in storage.  Now that we're putting the house back together the majority of that clothing (all of which is current and in excellent condition) will be donated.

That help?

But you have 60 shirts, you glutton! God is not happy with you!

[bigmc]

Oh I see it was higher up the page.

Yes, absolutely the idea is to give and give generously.  Yes, I agree with this for sure.   Great to be a generous giver.

We like to donate clothes multiple times throughout the year like I mentioned above.  My wife has two big ole bags in her car right now....primarily little girls clothes, but that was big donation this time around.  Middle and end of last year we gave a bunch of my stuff out.  We did some work in our house recently and came across clothes in storage.  Now that we're putting the house back together the majority of that clothing (all of which is current and in excellent condition) will be donated.

That help?

you still have sixty shirts while your fellow christians have none

i donate stuff to charity every month but im going to hell according to you  

how about the guy who set the bears on the kids for calling him baldy

seems a bit harsh to me im surprised god granted a wish like that

what are your thoughts?

[Man of Steel]

But you have 60 shirts, you glutton! God is not happy with you!

I have stuff that has accumulated and some sentimental, but we donate consistently.  This is just 1 small portion of our giving...again not something I like to disclose publically.

There isn't an ounce of greed involved.  Trust me, I know what you're attempting to do....you will fail completely.  I have 100% confidence.

Good works don't do anything about our sins.   I've known plenty of cheery givers with wrecked, wretched lives....adulterous, sinful living.  

It's great that you give though....keep it up.

You can't earn salvation.  It's only through Christ.  Our works thereafter, done in accordance with the Lord's will, is the fruit (the evidence) of a life changed.   We stop our willful sin, share the gospel and produce fruit in our righteous works.

Charitable work is excellent and encouraged to help others.  If the motivation isn't to help others then it's inherently selfish.  It's a reason I don't talk about that stuff so that it might appear as boasting....only the Lord need know.    Again, your good works don't eliminate the stain of your sin and gain righteousness....we aren't self-righteous.  Righteousnes is imputed to the believer from Jesus Christ.

An eternity in hell is not about doing enough works, it's about rejecting Jesus Christ and opting for an eternity without him.