Author Topic: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?  (Read 103156 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1125 on: April 16, 2016, 09:22:48 AM »
i realise you think i am out my "depth"

however i would ask you to consider what i said objectively

we never feel more alive than when we dance with death and survive

its also very difficult for us to get our head round the concept that when we die thats it

religion solves that problem

but you have to accept that you believe you dont know

and what you claim to be facts have been argued the other way just as convincingly by very intelligent people

you fall down when you move the goal posts

the bears story is a classic

shifting the sands to make it seem less ridiculous

religion is largely responsible for more death in the world than anything else

fanatics like you are dangerous

It's not that your analysis was bad, it just didn't have anything to do with my me or my situation.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1126 on: April 16, 2016, 09:32:00 AM »
It's not that your analysis was bad, it just didn't have anything to do with my me or my situation.

ah ok my bad

you were at deaths door

recovered

had a revelation

now you preach the bible as absolute fact

am i wrong  ???
T

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1127 on: April 16, 2016, 09:36:18 AM »
i believe in god and class myself as a christian. but this is just taking things too far like the rest of the religious fanatics.

vanity is apparently a sin. so why would god want his 'children' to spend so much time praising him and worshipping him...is he that vain?

if you're a parent you want your children to grow up and be good people, do unto others as you would have done unto them and all that. but what parent would be so vain that they wanted their children to spend hours worshipping them?

look at the church and how much wealth it holds onto. from my memory of learning about jesus, he never wanted anything material, he gave everything he had away...so why is the church amassing all this wealth, look at all the opulence on display in the vatican...

organised religion has completely lost it's way.

What has been taken too far?  Studying, learning, praying?  Or did you mean something else?

Anything that becomes an idol of sorts is sinful....vanity included.

What is worship?

There's nothing wrong with money.  In and of itself it's benign.   Turning money into idol is where trouble starts.  Christ wasn't anti-possession, but his ministry was an absolute demonstration of complete faith in God and required the same of his disciples during the extent of his ministry  God's earliest servants became very wealthy folks...Abraham, David, Solomon, Job all had tremendous wealth....blessed by God.  How any of us use those blessings is what indicates the fruits of our faith and work of the Holy Spirit in us. 

Now, the prosperity gospel taught in churches, the displays of opulence, the vast sums of money despite the definite poverty in surrounding communities....none of that screams Christian witness to me.....it's nonsense.

I"m not against organized religion provided the organization promotes scripture and demonstrates a devotion to Christ.  Otherwise it's man-centric nothing.


Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1128 on: April 16, 2016, 09:38:29 AM »
ah ok my bad

you were at deaths door

recovered

had a revelation

now you preach the bible as absolute fact

am i wrong  ???

Yes that summarizes some points of my written, posted testimony. 

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1129 on: April 16, 2016, 10:05:03 AM »
Yes that summarizes some points of my written, posted testimony. 

i think you are a good person

i just think you have put too much faith in one experience you had at a very difficult time

i also think you should respect other peoples opinions

judge ye not and all that

peace  8)
T

10pints

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1130 on: April 16, 2016, 04:59:46 PM »
MOS,

You genuinely believe in the bible as being the word of God.

God existing aside, this makes your argument incredulous, because humans have proven themselves, throughout the ages, to be lying, duplicitous shits, that will do / say anything to get their genes the upper hand in the game of survival.

It logically follows, that the humans, who wrote these texts (unless you are ready to offer an cogent argument that, throughout the ages, the bible was not inscribed by human hands), which you so like to quote, would have, throughout the ages, amended the words (regardless of their initial validity) so as to promote their own genetic interests.

Therefore, it stands to reason, that the words contained therein, have been amended, in this highly influential text, so as to suit human needs, and are no longer the word of God (assuming indeed that he even exists, and said the things that were initially documented by humans).

If you cannot see why a majority of us find your position utterly incredulous, purely from a lexical viewpoint, discounting the gaping holes in the logical / ontological fallacies inherent in the theist position, then we should really just accept you as someone who lacks the desire to inspect this topic with the necessary, critical granularity that such great claims require.

It is simply beyond your ken.

Even the Muslim philosopher: Averroës knew that religion was for those who didn't possess the mental fortitude to persevere with the inherent uncertainties of human existence, aka the stage of the absurd.

I completely understand why many people, yourself included, opt for a variant of Camus' philosophical suicide. The alternative is a lifetime of existential crisis / angst. But such is the calling of the Ubermensch!

I, like Sisyphus, am happy in my struggle, and have no recourse to such tricks of the mind, to assuage my struggle for meaning.  

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1131 on: April 16, 2016, 05:11:59 PM »
MOS,

You genuinely believe in the bible as being the word of God.

God existing aside, this makes your argument incredulous, because humans have proven themselves, throughout the ages, to be lying, duplicitous shits, that will do / say anything to get their genes the upper hand in the game of survival.

It logically follows, that the humans, who wrote these texts (unless you are ready to offer an cogent argument that, throughout the ages, the bible was not inscribed by human hands), which you so like to quote, would have, throughout the ages, amended the words (regardless of their initial validity) so as to promote their own genetic interests.

Therefore, it stands to reason, that the words contained therein, have been amended, in this highly influential text, so as to suit human needs, and are no longer the word of God (assuming indeed that he even exists, and said the things that were initially documented by humans).

If you cannot see why a majority of us find your position utterly incredulous, purely from a lexical viewpoint, discounting the gaping holes in the logical / ontological fallacies inherent in the theist position, then we should really just accept you as someone who lacks the desire to inspect this topic with the necessary, critical granularity that such great claims require.

It is simply beyond your ken.

Even the Muslim philosopher: Averroës knew that religion was for those who didn't possess the mental fortitude to persevere with the inherent uncertainties of human existence, aka the stage of the absurd.

I completely understand why many people, yourself included, opt for a variant of Camus' philosophical suicide. The alternative is a lifetime of existential crisis / angst. But such is the calling of the Ubermensch!

I, like Sisyphus, am happy in my struggle, and have no recourse to such tricks of the mind, to assuage my struggle for meaning.  


What are your unanswered and bigmc's unanswered questions you got a kick out of me dodging?  Quote those posts for me.

I'll then answer those.
Then we'll move on.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1132 on: April 16, 2016, 05:28:11 PM »
i think you are a good person

i just think you have put too much faith in one experience you had at a very difficult time

i also think you should respect other peoples opinions

judge ye not and all that

peace  8)

Well the experience hasn't stopped.....there have been many experiences.

avxo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1133 on: April 16, 2016, 06:14:56 PM »
Well the experience hasn't stopped.....there have been many experiences.

Once you take that first step and believe that an invisible elf hiding inside my hat is the source of all rain, then it only takes a couple of drops of rain to reaffirm and strengthen than belief.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1134 on: April 17, 2016, 01:40:18 AM »
Once you take that first step and believe that an invisible elf hiding inside my hat is the source of all rain, then it only takes a couple of drops of rain to reaffirm and strengthen than belief.

Yep I've read the same mockery with a purple space elephant and a pink unicorn.

I'll use my canned response here that I also did there.  Meh.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1135 on: April 17, 2016, 02:03:42 AM »
Yep I've read the same mockery with a purple space elephant and a pink unicorn.

I'll use my canned response here that I also did there.  Meh.

mos

yes or no

do you think its acceptable for god to set bears on children for calling someone names?

and mos back in the day god appeared to people every five minutes

as soon as we were able to record history accurately this all stopped why?
T

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1136 on: April 17, 2016, 03:01:10 AM »
mos

yes or no

do you think its acceptable for god to set bears on children for calling someone names?

and mos back in the day god appeared to people every five minutes

as soon as we were able to record history accurately this all stopped why?

I asked a similar question some time ago, the response was: "God appears to believers all the time".

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1137 on: April 17, 2016, 03:28:10 AM »
I asked a similar question some time ago, the response was: "God appears to believers all the time".

you would think someone would have caught that on a camera phone by now
T

10pints

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1138 on: April 17, 2016, 03:33:05 AM »
I asked a similar question some time ago, the response was: "God appears to believers all the time".

Sounds eerily similar to the emperor's new clothes....

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1139 on: April 17, 2016, 05:34:37 AM »
mos

yes or no

do you think its acceptable for god to set bears on children for calling someone names?

and mos back in the day god appeared to people every five minutes

as soon as we were able to record history accurately this all stopped why?

I would need more information....more context.

As I've explained that wasn't the situation.   It was a gang of young men hatefully threatening a prophet of God.  You refuse to accept this...can't help you anymore.

Well he actually didn't appear to folks every five minutes,  but the record of some significant appearances is recorded.  Then he lived on earth for decades, completed his salvific work and then returned to the Father.  The difference thereafter is the Holy Spirit that began permanently living within believers....never leaving or lifting from them.  The presence of God is tangible and repeatedly demonstrated in my life and in the lives of others.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1140 on: April 17, 2016, 05:38:15 AM »
I asked a similar question some time ago, the response was: "God appears to believers all the time".

Would you please provide that post?   I would like to read the greater context.

Although God has appeared to many folks. 

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1141 on: April 17, 2016, 05:47:48 AM »
Would you please provide that post?   I would like to read the greater context.

Although God has appeared to many folks.  

I think the context was in a discussion where you said that the Holy Spirit appeared to you and that your father had literally heard the voice of God. I gave several natural explanations as to how and why people hear voices, my position being that accepting a supernatural explanation over a natural one is delusion, your position was that the context of your father's experience supported a supernatural explanation.

Does God appear to contemporary skeptics? if not why not, if yes, please provide examples.

Necrosis

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1142 on: April 17, 2016, 06:40:25 AM »
I asked a similar question some time ago, the response was: "God appears to believers all the time".

He also appeared to unbelievers which should also be still occurring :-\

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1143 on: April 17, 2016, 06:48:13 AM »
I would need more information....more context.

As I've explained that wasn't the situation.   It was a gang of young men hatefully threatening a prophet of God.  You refuse to accept this...can't help you anymore.

Well he actually didn't appear to folks every five minutes,  but the record of some significant appearances is recorded.  Then he lived on earth for decades, completed his salvific work and then returned to the Father.  The difference thereafter is the Holy Spirit that began permanently living within believers....never leaving or lifting from them.  The presence of God is tangible and repeatedly demonstrated in my life and in the lives of others.

no you explained it could have been by interpreting it a certain way

and you still refuse to answer the question

you accepted that it could just have easily been children as young men

i ask you again do you think god jumped the gun a little there

straight answer please

you claim you will answer any questions
T

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1144 on: April 17, 2016, 06:54:37 AM »
its worth noting that a direct translation of the original script

regarding the bear attack is "little children"

who mos has decided to change to young men

admit it mos you are wrong
T

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1145 on: April 18, 2016, 07:51:38 AM »
no you explained it could have been by interpreting it a certain way

and you still refuse to answer the question

you accepted that it could just have easily been children as young men

i ask you again do you think god jumped the gun a little there

straight answer please

you claim you will answer any questions

No, God murdering a group of young children with bears for teasing Elisha does not seem right to me.

Again, my straight forward answer is no.


Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1146 on: April 18, 2016, 08:11:26 AM »
its worth noting that a direct translation of the original script

regarding the bear attack is "little children"

who mos has decided to change to young men

admit it mos you are wrong

I'm going to note this one more time and then I'll stop.

The hebrew language is very small and can memorized by one individual.  Hebrew words can therefore have multiple literal, correct definitions.  I gave you the example of the word "yom" which in english is "day".  It has 5-6 literal, correct definitions.  Although, context is always key.  

The hebrew word for children is "yeled" (this is the english transliteration) and it also has 4-5 literal, correct definitions.  Defintions include the terms children, lads, youths, young men.....all correct, literal definitions.  "Yeled" can even refer to an apostate within the Israelite ranks.

I've read a dozen articles from mutliple scholars that agree that the KJV usage of the literal definition of "children" is incorrect given the context and it's usage has caused a disservice to later english translations.  This is where the KJV incorporated an inappropriate yet literal, correct definition.

Further, I discussed the cultural convention surrounding baldness and how being bald brought with it a very negative connotation in ancient Israel.  Calling someone "baldy" or "baldhead" was sign of hatred and contempt.   Baldness was often associated with disease (ex: leprosy) and women with short hair were often prostitutes.

Further the expression "go up" was a forceful way to tell Elisha "get out of here" or "go up like your master Elijah".  Basically, get the "you know what" out of here or else.  All of it was meant as a threat.

So, what makes more sense given the context?

A group of 42 small children were playfully teasing a prophet and God murdered them with bears for no reason.

or

A group of 42 bad-intentioned "youths" or "young men" (anywhere from 16-20 yrs old) were threatening a prophet of God (and by extension threatening God himself) and God protected his prophet and destroyed the gang.

What makes more sense given the context (both linguistically, culturally and reasonably)?

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1147 on: April 18, 2016, 08:14:35 AM »
I think the context was in a discussion where you said that the Holy Spirit appeared to you and that your father had literally heard the voice of God. I gave several natural explanations as to how and why people hear voices, my position being that accepting a supernatural explanation over a natural one is delusion, your position was that the context of your father's experience supported a supernatural explanation.

Does God appear to contemporary skeptics? if not why not, if yes, please provide examples.

Contemporary skeptics?  I couldn't say.  Jesus Christ has appeared to many Muslims who have converted to Christianity.


bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1148 on: April 18, 2016, 09:46:30 AM »
none of it makes sense my friend

the guy talking to a burning bush was on drugs

a lot of the stuff was left out as it shone a bad light on the whole thing and mentioned other gods

not sure a guy who would turn someone in to a pillar of salt for looking back

is that good a role model
T

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1149 on: April 18, 2016, 09:52:35 AM »
none of it makes sense my friend

the guy talking to a burning bush was on drugs

a lot of the stuff was left out as it shone a bad light on the whole thing and mentioned other gods

not sure a guy who would turn someone in to a pillar of salt for looking back

is that good a role model

That's ok if you don't want to answer.   "none of it makes sense" isn't an answer...it's a dodge.  "burning bushes" and "pillars of salt" are red herrings.  

My questions are rarely answered.

I've provided explanation for the passage and others can read it now.  I'm fine with it.