Author Topic: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?  (Read 102948 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1175 on: April 19, 2016, 06:13:45 AM »
What difference it make, while in your tiny little mind truth is an insult anyway? It makes no difference how you fold it, I told the truth, and from your point of view it is just crap. How about this: I write a word of God, because it is a God's will that I wrote what I wrote. This has to be a fact, because some heavenly force is guiding my hands on the keyboard. Just prove otherwise..  ;D

Are you an atheist Ropo?  Please forgive me if you've answered this question before.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1176 on: April 19, 2016, 10:54:24 AM »
Uh huh.

I gave you one question with two options.   The option you've been defending and my option that gave a different perspective.

You dodged the question by inventing a third option,, abandoned your previous position and tacked on a couple red herrings hoping to divert me off topic and then called me childish.

Virtually every single atheist tells me something like "you provided no defense" after I've done exactly that.  I know the routine.

you mean like you did when i asked you the question

instead of saying yes or no

you changed all the parameters the age of the children etc

i am saying and listen clearly

some bald idiot who got called names  by little kids

wrote that story to make himself feel better or to scare kids so much that they dont name call

bit like how other fairy stories work

is that straight forward enough for you

and yes it does fit in to the context of the bible where your god wipes out the entire planet apart from one family and turns people in to salt for the heinous crime of looking back

 :)
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SupplementGuy

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1177 on: April 19, 2016, 02:07:43 PM »
@bigmc those are all fleshly, base viewpoints. When you open your mind and sincerely search for understanding then your eyes are opened and you see the spiritual reasoning behind each event recorded.

When someone's life is taken by God, it is divine judgment, not a whim. He reads hearts and minds and is NEVER unjust. Just because we may not understand something at first glance or feel something may be too harsh we do well to remember that his ways are always just and righteous.

She wasn't turned into a pillar of salt for the heinous crime of looking back, she was judged for longing for the wicked land that was to be destroyed and was told to hurry away and not to look back to the things behind.

Similarly, the boys in Elisha's case were punished for disrespecting God prophet and by extension, God himself as he appointed Elisha. The total number of boys in the group wasn't given just the number destroyed.

We are living in a time or mercy where we have time to repent and bring our lives into harmony with God's will. I'm gracious for the opportunity.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1178 on: April 19, 2016, 11:56:32 PM »
@bigmc those are all fleshly, base viewpoints. When you open your mind and sincerely search for understanding then your eyes are opened and you see the spiritual reasoning behind each event recorded.

When someone's life is taken by God, it is divine judgment, not a whim. He reads hearts and minds and is NEVER unjust. Just because we may not understand something at first glance or feel something may be too harsh we do well to remember that his ways are always just and righteous.

She wasn't turned into a pillar of salt for the heinous crime of looking back, she was judged for longing for the wicked land that was to be destroyed and was told to hurry away and not to look back to the things behind.

Similarly, the boys in Elisha's case were punished for disrespecting God prophet and by extension, God himself as he appointed Elisha. The total number of boys in the group wasn't given just the number destroyed.

We are living in a time or mercy where we have time to repent and bring our lives into harmony with God's will. I'm gracious for the opportunity.

this is probably the most ridiculous post i have ever read

are you trolling
T

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1179 on: April 20, 2016, 12:27:27 AM »
@bigmc those are all fleshly, base viewpoints. When you open your mind and sincerely search for understanding then your eyes are opened and you see the spiritual reasoning behind each event recorded.

When someone's life is taken by God, it is divine judgment, not a whim. He reads hearts and minds and is NEVER unjust. Just because we may not understand something at first glance or feel something may be too harsh we do well to remember that his ways are always just and righteous.

She wasn't turned into a pillar of salt for the heinous crime of looking back, she was judged for longing for the wicked land that was to be destroyed and was told to hurry away and not to look back to the things behind.

Similarly, the boys in Elisha's case were punished for disrespecting God prophet and by extension, God himself as he appointed Elisha. The total number of boys in the group wasn't given just the number destroyed.

We are living in a time or mercy where we have time to repent and bring our lives into harmony with God's will. I'm gracious for the opportunity.

divine judgments of peace


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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1180 on: April 20, 2016, 12:57:00 AM »
divine judgments of peace



There's a reason why God gave that little child cancer. The bastard ate too many cookies and now he must pay

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1181 on: April 20, 2016, 01:46:27 AM »
There's a reason why God gave that little child cancer. The bastard ate too many cookies and now he must pay

God doesn't give kids cancer. Not even close. He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Right now we are living in a time period where God is letting man prove beyond any doubt that he cannot successfully rule himself and that regardless of the situationamynof mankind will not turn away from him but stay faithful this proving Satan a liar. Those are the ones that will be given everlasting life on a paradise Earth when thisnsyst is destroyed and Satan is judged once and for all and God's name is vindicated and his sovereignty clearly established.

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1182 on: April 20, 2016, 02:03:08 AM »
God doesn't give kids cancer. Not even close. He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Right now we are living in a time period where God is letting man prove beyond any doubt that he cannot successfully rule himself and that regardless of the situationamynof mankind will not turn away from him but stay faithful this proving Satan a liar. Those are the ones that will be given everlasting life on a paradise Earth when thisnsyst is destroyed and Satan is judged once and for all and God's name is vindicated and his sovereignty clearly established.

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.

Fuck, you're an idiot. None of that nonsense made any sense and that little 'scripture' explains Jack shit as to why bad things happen to the innocent. The humans who wrote this fairytale booklet should've gotten a little more creative

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1183 on: April 20, 2016, 02:11:09 AM »
God doesn't give kids cancer. Not even close. He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Right now we are living in a time period where God is letting man prove beyond any doubt that he cannot successfully rule himself and that regardless of the situationamynof mankind will not turn away from him but stay faithful this proving Satan a liar. Those are the ones that will be given everlasting life on a paradise Earth when thisnsyst is destroyed and Satan is judged once and for all and God's name is vindicated and his sovereignty clearly established.

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.

read that back to yourself

then go and see a doctor

seriously
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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1184 on: April 20, 2016, 03:18:09 AM »
God doesn't give kids cancer. Not even close. He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Right now we are living in a time period where God is letting man prove beyond any doubt that he cannot successfully rule himself and that regardless of the situationamynof mankind will not turn away from him but stay faithful this proving Satan a liar. Those are the ones that will be given everlasting life on a paradise Earth when thisnsyst is destroyed and Satan is judged once and for all and God's name is vindicated and his sovereignty clearly established.

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.


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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1185 on: April 20, 2016, 04:22:09 AM »
God doesn't give kids cancer. Not even close. He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Right now we are living in a time period where God is letting man prove beyond any doubt that he cannot successfully rule himself and that regardless of the situationamynof mankind will not turn away from him but stay faithful this proving Satan a liar. Those are the ones that will be given everlasting life on a paradise Earth when thisnsyst is destroyed and Satan is judged once and for all and God's name is vindicated and his sovereignty clearly established.

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.

We are travelling around in outer space, understand quantum theory yet we need the bible?

The book is written by men, making shit up like all humans do.

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1186 on: April 20, 2016, 05:10:20 AM »
God doesn't give kids cancer.

Oh. So he just allows it to happen. That's so much better!


He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

So then why does he take children? Surely, the God of love - who sent his Son to die for us so that we may live - would not wish for a toddler to die a painful death caused by cancer. And since, by your own assertion, he's "NEVER unjust" and doesn't take lives on a whim, I am forced to conclude that God's plan must have required that the toddler die, and that it must have happened exactly as it did. Which leads me to the inescapable conclusion that your God did indeed give the kid cancer, because what's a kid's life in the grand scheme of things, right?

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.

And yet, so far plenty of important and pointed questions have gone unanswered... it's a mystery!

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1187 on: April 20, 2016, 05:15:04 AM »
God doesn't give kids cancer. Not even close. He doesn't 'take children because he needs another angel', all of.that nonsense isn't true, it's things that people that doesn't understand truth say to try to explain death. James 1:13 says, "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Right now we are living in a time period where God is letting man prove beyond any doubt that he cannot successfully rule himself and that regardless of the situationamynof mankind will not turn away from him but stay faithful this proving Satan a liar. Those are the ones that will be given everlasting life on a paradise Earth when thisnsyst is destroyed and Satan is judged once and for all and God's name is vindicated and his sovereignty clearly established.

There is an answer from.the bible to every objection given in this thread. No matter what fleshly argument is brought up there is no rebuttal to truth and there is no way to prove.God unjust or wrong.

Thanks brah, really cleared it all up.




SupplementGuy

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1188 on: April 20, 2016, 06:32:23 AM »
Comfort for Those Who Suffer
OVER the centuries, the question of why God allows suffering has challenged many philosophers and theologians. Some have asserted that since God is all-powerful, he must ultimately be responsible for suffering. The writer of The Clementine Homilies, an apocryphal second-century work, claimed that God rules the world with both hands. With his “left hand,” the Devil, he causes suffering and affliction, and with his “right hand,” Jesus, he saves and blesses.

Others, unable to accept that God could permit suffering even if he does not cause it, have chosen to deny that suffering exists. “Evil is but an illusion, and it has no real basis,” wrote Mary Baker Eddy. “If sin, sickness, and death were understood as nothingness, they would disappear.”—Science and Health With Key to the Scriptures.

In the wake of the tragic events of history, especially from the first world war until our day, many have reached the conclusion that God is simply unable to prevent suffering. “The Holocaust has, I think, dismissed any easy use of omnipotence as an attribute appropriate to God,” wrote Jewish scholar David Wolf Silverman. “If God is to be intelligible in some manner,” he added, “then His goodness must be compatible with the existence of evil, and this is only if He is not all-powerful.”

However, claims that God is somehow an accomplice to suffering, that he is unable to prevent it, or that suffering is a mere figment of our imagination offer scant comfort to those who suffer. And more important, such beliefs are utterly at odds with the just, dynamic, and caring God who is revealed in the pages of the Bible. (Job 34:10, 12; Jeremiah 32:17; 1 John 4:8) What, then, does the Bible say about the reason why suffering has been permitted?

How Did Suffering Begin?
God did not create humans to suffer. On the contrary, he endowed the first human couple, Adam and Eve, with perfect minds and bodies, prepared a delightful garden to serve as their home, and assigned them meaningful, satisfying work. (Genesis 1:27, 28, 31; 2:8) However, their continued happiness depended on their recognizing God’s rulership and his right to decide what was good and what was bad. That divine prerogative was represented by a tree called “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.” (Genesis 2:17) Adam and Eve would demonstrate their subjection to God if they obeyed his command not to eat from that tree.*

Tragically, Adam and Eve failed to obey God. A rebellious spirit creature, later identified as Satan the Devil, convinced Eve that it was not in her best interests to obey God. In fact, God was supposedly depriving her of something highly desirable: independence, the right to choose for herself what was good and what was bad. Satan claimed that if she ate of the tree, ‘her eyes were bound to be opened and she was bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.’ (Genesis 3:1-6; Revelation 12:9) Seduced by the prospect of independence, Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, and Adam soon did the same.

That same day, Adam and Eve began to experience the results of their rebellion. By rejecting divine rulership, they lost out on the protection and blessings that subjection to God had afforded them. God evicted them from Paradise and told Adam: “Cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground.” (Genesis 3:17, 19) Adam and Eve became subject to sickness, pain, aging, and death. Suffering had become a part of human experience.—Genesis 5:29.

Settling the Issue
Someone may ask, ‘Could God not have simply overlooked Adam and Eve’s sin?’ No, because that would have further undermined respect for his authority, perhaps encouraging future rebellions and resulting in even greater suffering. (Ecclesiastes 8:11) In addition, condoning such disobedience would have made God a party to wrongdoing. The Bible writer Moses reminds us: “God’s works are perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.” (Deuteronomy 32:4, footnote) To be true to himself, God had to allow Adam and Eve to suffer the consequences of their disobedience.

Why did God not immediately destroy the first human couple along with Satan, the invisible instigator of their rebellion? He had the power to do so. Adam and Eve would not have produced offspring subject to a legacy of suffering and death. However, such a demonstration of divine power would not have proved the rightfulness of God’s authority over his intelligent creatures. Furthermore, had Adam and Eve died childless, that would have signaled the failure of God’s purpose to fill the earth with their perfect descendants. (Genesis 1:28) And “God is not like men . . . Whatever he promises, he does; he speaks, and it is done.”—Numbers 23:19, Today’s English Version.

In his perfect wisdom, Jehovah God decided to allow the rebellion to proceed for a limited time. The rebels would have ample opportunity to experience the effects of independence from God. History would demonstrate beyond doubt mankind’s need for divine guidance and the superiority of God’s rule over man’s or Satan’s. At the same time, God took steps to ensure that his original purpose for the earth would be fulfilled. He promised that a “seed,” or “offspring,” would come who would ‘bruise Satan in the head,’ eliminating once and for all his rebellion and its damaging effects.—Genesis 3:15, footnote.

Jesus Christ was that promised Seed. At 1 John 3:8, we read that “the Son of God was made manifest . . . to break up the works of the Devil.” This he did by laying down his perfect human life and paying the ransom price to redeem Adam’s children from inherited sin and death. (John 1:29; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those who truly exercise faith in Jesus’ sacrifice are promised permanent relief from suffering. (John 3:16; Revelation 7:17) When will this happen?

An End to Suffering
The rejection of God’s authority has caused untold suffering. It is fitting, then, that God should use a special expression of his authority to end human suffering and accomplish his original purpose for the earth. Jesus mentioned this divine provision when he taught his followers to pray: “Our Father in the heavens, . . . let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”—Matthew 6:9, 10.

The time that God has allowed for humans to experiment with self-government is about to end. In fulfillment of Bible prophecy, his Kingdom was established in the heavens in 1914 with Jesus Christ as its King.* Shortly, it will crush and put an end to all human governments.—Daniel 2:44.

During his brief earthly ministry, Jesus provided a foregleam of the blessings that the restoration of divine rule will bring to humanity. The Gospels provide evidence that Jesus showed compassion for members of human society who were poor and discriminated against. He healed the sick, fed the hungry, and resurrected the dead. Even the forces of nature obeyed his voice. (Matthew 11:5; Mark 4:37-39; Luke 9:11-16) Imagine what Jesus will accomplish when he uses the cleansing effect of his ransom sacrifice to benefit all obedient mankind! The Bible promises that by means of Christ’s rule, God “will wipe out every tear from [mankind’s] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”—Revelation 21:4.

Comfort for Those Who Suffer
How heartening it is to know that our loving and all-powerful God, Jehovah, cares for us and that he will shortly bring relief to mankind! Usually, a seriously sick patient willingly accepts treatment that will cure him even if it is very painful. In the same way, if we know that God’s way of handling matters will bring eternal blessings, that knowledge can sustain us no matter what temporary difficulties we face.

Ricardo, mentioned in the preceding article, is one who has learned to draw comfort from the Bible’s promises. “After my wife’s death, I felt a strong desire to isolate myself,” he recalls, “but I soon realized that this would not bring my wife back and would only worsen my emotional state.” Instead, Ricardo stuck to his routine of attending Christian meetings and sharing the Bible’s message with others. “As I felt Jehovah’s loving support and noticed how he answered my prayers in seemingly small matters, I drew closer to him,” says Ricardo. “It was this awareness of God’s love that enabled me to endure what certainly was the worst trial I had ever faced.” He admits: “I still miss my wife very much, but I now firmly believe that nothing Jehovah allows to happen can cause us lasting harm.”

Do you, like Ricardo and millions of others, yearn for the time when mankind’s present sufferings “will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart”? (Isaiah 65:17) Be assured that the blessings of God’s Kingdom are within your grasp if you follow the Bible’s advice: “Search for Jehovah . . . while he may be found. Call to him while he proves to be near.”—Isaiah 55:6.

To help you do this, make the reading and careful study of God’s Word a priority in your life. Get to know God and the one whom he sent forth, Jesus Christ. Strive to live in harmony with God’s standards and thus show that you are willing to submit to his sovereignty. Such a course will bring you greater happiness now despite the tests that you may have to face. And in the future, it will result in your enjoying life in a world free of suffering.—John 17:3.

[Footnotes]

In its footnote to Genesis 2:17, The Jerusalem Bible explains “the knowledge of good and evil” as “the power of deciding . . . what is good and what is evil and of acting accordingly, a claim to complete moral independence by which man refuses to recognise his status as a created being.” It adds: “The first sin was an attack on God’s sovereignty.”

For a detailed discussion of Bible prophecy relating to 1914, see chapters 10 and 11 of the book Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

[Box on page 6, 7]

HOW CAN WE COPE WITH SUFFERING?

“Throw all your anxiety upon [God].” (1 Peter 5:7) Feelings of confusion, anger, and abandonment are only natural when we endure suffering or see someone we love suffer. Still, be assured that Jehovah understands our feelings. (Exodus 3:7; Isaiah 63:9) Like faithful men of old, we can open our heart to him and express our doubts and anxieties. (Exodus 5:22; Job 10:1-3; Jeremiah 14:19; Habakkuk 1:13) He may not miraculously remove our trials, but in response to our heartfelt prayers, he can grant us the wisdom and strength to deal with them.—James 1:5, 6.

“Do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.” (1 Peter 4:12, New International Version) Here Peter is speaking of persecution, but his words apply equally well to any suffering a believer may endure. Humans suffer privation, sickness, and loss. The Bible says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” befall everyone. (Ecclesiastes 9:11) Such things are part of the human condition at present. Realizing this will help us to deal with suffering and misfortune when it occurs. (1 Peter 5:9) Most of all, recalling the assurance that “the eyes of Jehovah are toward the righteous ones, and his ears are toward their cry for help” will especially be a source of comfort.—Psalm 34:15; Proverbs 15:3; 1 Peter 3:12.

“Rejoice in the hope.” (Romans 12:12) Instead of dwelling on lost happiness, we can meditate on God’s promise to end all suffering. (Ecclesiastes 7:10) This well-founded hope will protect us as a helmet protects the head. Hope cushions the blows in life and helps to ensure that they do not prove fatal to our mental, emotional, or spiritual health.—1 Thessalonians 5:8.

[Picture on page 5]

Adam and Eve rejected divine rulership

[Picture on page 7]

God promises a world free of suffering

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1189 on: April 20, 2016, 06:46:33 AM »
divine judgments of peace



Fuck, you're an idiot. None of that nonsense made any sense and that little 'scripture' explains Jack shit as to why bad things happen to the innocent. The humans who wrote this fairytale booklet should've gotten a little more creative

Thanks brah, really cleared it all up.





It's the effect of our sinful choices that have brought about things like pain and fear upon the world.  We're subjected to evil, disease, famine, disasters, etc...all the results of our sin.   This world and it inhabitants exist in a perpetual state of decay leading to death because of sin.

The world calls this the problem of evil, but attribute it to God.  Many accept no responsibility and certainly aren't accountable for their actions.

God entrusted the whole of creation to humanity...to act as stewards and govern it.    God deemed his creation good and created man without sin.  Man chose to defy that relationship with God and thereby corrupt the goodness God established and incur his wrath.   Begs the question: given we know the potential for evil and outright engagement of evil within ourselves why do we continue to allow it?  We have every God given resource at our fingertips to prevent all sorts of atrocities, but we don’t eradicate such horrible things.  We hide behind politics and rhetoric and do nothing…..or we casually blame God…..shameful.

The reality is, it’s God’s good creation which is the platform for resolving the problem of evil.  Jesus left eternity and entered his finite creation as the incarnate Son of God who came to collect his church – those folks that reject sin and accept his standards and desire to be with him.  God wants folks to come unto him that truly want to be with him.  It’s our choice to accept or reject him that provides the purest pathway to eliminating evil.

Our autonomy ends when we enter eternity.   You’re a finite creation with finite choices to freely make in this finite existence, but those choices are still subject to infinite ramifications based upon his infinite terms (because God is infinite in nature).  The finite existence we live in is merely staging for what is yet to come and what we choose to do now determines the outcome of our eternal existence.  The realm of eternity – the infinite – is the final setting in which justice will be dealt out based upon our free choices in the finite.  Yet, when each of us exits this life the problem of evil is one step closer to achieving full resolution because the problem of evil is reconciled individually (despite the fact we typically only acknowledge it collectively).  It’s individuals that freely choose to assemble together to form the body of Christ and it’s individuals that freely choose to reject Christ.  In this life we’re meant to go through the fire, but that fire is cleansing if you’re aligned with Christ.

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1190 on: April 20, 2016, 06:50:19 AM »
Whenever I see pictures of dying kids, I just smile and think "how are you going to dazzle me next, Lord?"

You can mock me all you want...I'm only blessed when you do.

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1191 on: April 20, 2016, 06:57:08 AM »
Comfort for Those Who Suffer
OVER the centuries, the question of why God allows suffering has challenged many philosophers and theologians. Some have asserted that since God is all-powerful, he must ultimately be responsible for suffering. The writer of The Clementine Homilies, an apocryphal second-century work, claimed that God rules the world with both hands. With his “left hand,” the Devil, he causes suffering and affliction, and with his “right hand,” Jesus, he saves and blesses.

Others, unable to accept that God could permit suffering even if he does not cause it, have chosen to deny that suffering exists. “Evil is but an illusion, and it has no real basis,” wrote Mary Baker Eddy. “If sin, sickness, and death were understood as nothingness, they would disappear.”—Science and Health With Key to the Scriptures.

In the wake of the tragic events of history, especially from the first world war until our day, many have reached the conclusion that God is simply unable to prevent suffering. “The Holocaust has, I think, dismissed any easy use of omnipotence as an attribute appropriate to God,” wrote Jewish scholar David Wolf Silverman. “If God is to be intelligible in some manner,” he added, “then His goodness must be compatible with the existence of evil, and this is only if He is not all-powerful.”

However, claims that God is somehow an accomplice to suffering, that he is unable to prevent it, or that suffering is a mere figment of our imagination offer scant comfort to those who suffer. And more important, such beliefs are utterly at odds with the just, dynamic, and caring God who is revealed in the pages of the Bible. (Job 34:10, 12; Jeremiah 32:17; 1 John 4:8) What, then, does the Bible say about the reason why suffering has been permitted?

How Did Suffering Begin?
God did not create humans to suffer. On the contrary, he endowed the first human couple, Adam and Eve, with perfect minds and bodies, prepared a delightful garden to serve as their home, and assigned them meaningful, satisfying work. (Genesis 1:27, 28, 31; 2:8) However, their continued happiness depended on their recognizing God’s rulership and his right to decide what was good and what was bad. That divine prerogative was represented by a tree called “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.” (Genesis 2:17) Adam and Eve would demonstrate their subjection to God if they obeyed his command not to eat from that tree.*

Tragically, Adam and Eve failed to obey God. A rebellious spirit creature, later identified as Satan the Devil, convinced Eve that it was not in her best interests to obey God. In fact, God was supposedly depriving her of something highly desirable: independence, the right to choose for herself what was good and what was bad. Satan claimed that if she ate of the tree, ‘her eyes were bound to be opened and she was bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.’ (Genesis 3:1-6; Revelation 12:9) Seduced by the prospect of independence, Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, and Adam soon did the same.

That same day, Adam and Eve began to experience the results of their rebellion. By rejecting divine rulership, they lost out on the protection and blessings that subjection to God had afforded them. God evicted them from Paradise and told Adam: “Cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground.” (Genesis 3:17, 19) Adam and Eve became subject to sickness, pain, aging, and death. Suffering had become a part of human experience.—Genesis 5:29.

Settling the Issue
Someone may ask, ‘Could God not have simply overlooked Adam and Eve’s sin?’ No, because that would have further undermined respect for his authority, perhaps encouraging future rebellions and resulting in even greater suffering. (Ecclesiastes 8:11) In addition, condoning such disobedience would have made God a party to wrongdoing. The Bible writer Moses reminds us: “God’s works are perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.” (Deuteronomy 32:4, footnote) To be true to himself, God had to allow Adam and Eve to suffer the consequences of their disobedience.

Why did God not immediately destroy the first human couple along with Satan, the invisible instigator of their rebellion? He had the power to do so. Adam and Eve would not have produced offspring subject to a legacy of suffering and death. However, such a demonstration of divine power would not have proved the rightfulness of God’s authority over his intelligent creatures. Furthermore, had Adam and Eve died childless, that would have signaled the failure of God’s purpose to fill the earth with their perfect descendants. (Genesis 1:28) And “God is not like men . . . Whatever he promises, he does; he speaks, and it is done.”—Numbers 23:19, Today’s English Version.

In his perfect wisdom, Jehovah God decided to allow the rebellion to proceed for a limited time. The rebels would have ample opportunity to experience the effects of independence from God. History would demonstrate beyond doubt mankind’s need for divine guidance and the superiority of God’s rule over man’s or Satan’s. At the same time, God took steps to ensure that his original purpose for the earth would be fulfilled. He promised that a “seed,” or “offspring,” would come who would ‘bruise Satan in the head,’ eliminating once and for all his rebellion and its damaging effects.—Genesis 3:15, footnote.

Jesus Christ was that promised Seed. At 1 John 3:8, we read that “the Son of God was made manifest . . . to break up the works of the Devil.” This he did by laying down his perfect human life and paying the ransom price to redeem Adam’s children from inherited sin and death. (John 1:29; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those who truly exercise faith in Jesus’ sacrifice are promised permanent relief from suffering. (John 3:16; Revelation 7:17) When will this happen?

An End to Suffering
The rejection of God’s authority has caused untold suffering. It is fitting, then, that God should use a special expression of his authority to end human suffering and accomplish his original purpose for the earth. Jesus mentioned this divine provision when he taught his followers to pray: “Our Father in the heavens, . . . let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”—Matthew 6:9, 10.

The time that God has allowed for humans to experiment with self-government is about to end. In fulfillment of Bible prophecy, his Kingdom was established in the heavens in 1914 with Jesus Christ as its King.* Shortly, it will crush and put an end to all human governments.—Daniel 2:44.

During his brief earthly ministry, Jesus provided a foregleam of the blessings that the restoration of divine rule will bring to humanity. The Gospels provide evidence that Jesus showed compassion for members of human society who were poor and discriminated against. He healed the sick, fed the hungry, and resurrected the dead. Even the forces of nature obeyed his voice. (Matthew 11:5; Mark 4:37-39; Luke 9:11-16) Imagine what Jesus will accomplish when he uses the cleansing effect of his ransom sacrifice to benefit all obedient mankind! The Bible promises that by means of Christ’s rule, God “will wipe out every tear from [mankind’s] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”—Revelation 21:4.

Comfort for Those Who Suffer
How heartening it is to know that our loving and all-powerful God, Jehovah, cares for us and that he will shortly bring relief to mankind! Usually, a seriously sick patient willingly accepts treatment that will cure him even if it is very painful. In the same way, if we know that God’s way of handling matters will bring eternal blessings, that knowledge can sustain us no matter what temporary difficulties we face.

Ricardo, mentioned in the preceding article, is one who has learned to draw comfort from the Bible’s promises. “After my wife’s death, I felt a strong desire to isolate myself,” he recalls, “but I soon realized that this would not bring my wife back and would only worsen my emotional state.” Instead, Ricardo stuck to his routine of attending Christian meetings and sharing the Bible’s message with others. “As I felt Jehovah’s loving support and noticed how he answered my prayers in seemingly small matters, I drew closer to him,” says Ricardo. “It was this awareness of God’s love that enabled me to endure what certainly was the worst trial I had ever faced.” He admits: “I still miss my wife very much, but I now firmly believe that nothing Jehovah allows to happen can cause us lasting harm.”

Do you, like Ricardo and millions of others, yearn for the time when mankind’s present sufferings “will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart”? (Isaiah 65:17) Be assured that the blessings of God’s Kingdom are within your grasp if you follow the Bible’s advice: “Search for Jehovah . . . while he may be found. Call to him while he proves to be near.”—Isaiah 55:6.

To help you do this, make the reading and careful study of God’s Word a priority in your life. Get to know God and the one whom he sent forth, Jesus Christ. Strive to live in harmony with God’s standards and thus show that you are willing to submit to his sovereignty. Such a course will bring you greater happiness now despite the tests that you may have to face. And in the future, it will result in your enjoying life in a world free of suffering.—John 17:3.

[Footnotes]

In its footnote to Genesis 2:17, The Jerusalem Bible explains “the knowledge of good and evil” as “the power of deciding . . . what is good and what is evil and of acting accordingly, a claim to complete moral independence by which man refuses to recognise his status as a created being.” It adds: “The first sin was an attack on God’s sovereignty.”

For a detailed discussion of Bible prophecy relating to 1914, see chapters 10 and 11 of the book Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

[Box on page 6, 7]

HOW CAN WE COPE WITH SUFFERING?

“Throw all your anxiety upon [God].” (1 Peter 5:7) Feelings of confusion, anger, and abandonment are only natural when we endure suffering or see someone we love suffer. Still, be assured that Jehovah understands our feelings. (Exodus 3:7; Isaiah 63:9) Like faithful men of old, we can open our heart to him and express our doubts and anxieties. (Exodus 5:22; Job 10:1-3; Jeremiah 14:19; Habakkuk 1:13) He may not miraculously remove our trials, but in response to our heartfelt prayers, he can grant us the wisdom and strength to deal with them.—James 1:5, 6.

“Do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.” (1 Peter 4:12, New International Version) Here Peter is speaking of persecution, but his words apply equally well to any suffering a believer may endure. Humans suffer privation, sickness, and loss. The Bible says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” befall everyone. (Ecclesiastes 9:11) Such things are part of the human condition at present. Realizing this will help us to deal with suffering and misfortune when it occurs. (1 Peter 5:9) Most of all, recalling the assurance that “the eyes of Jehovah are toward the righteous ones, and his ears are toward their cry for help” will especially be a source of comfort.—Psalm 34:15; Proverbs 15:3; 1 Peter 3:12.

“Rejoice in the hope.” (Romans 12:12) Instead of dwelling on lost happiness, we can meditate on God’s promise to end all suffering. (Ecclesiastes 7:10) This well-founded hope will protect us as a helmet protects the head. Hope cushions the blows in life and helps to ensure that they do not prove fatal to our mental, emotional, or spiritual health.—1 Thessalonians 5:8.

[Picture on page 5]

Adam and Eve rejected divine rulership

[Picture on page 7]

God promises a world free of suffering

I appreciate you standing strong for your faith....God bless you.

Unfortunately the more confident and steadfast we are in our faithful walk with Christ the more this angers and intimidates some folks (especially staunch atheists).  

I expect that virtually everything I just wrote will be dismissed and mocked.  Or attempts will be made to reverse it trading evil for good and good for evil and absolve man of any and all accountability in the process.

Yet, despite their mockery and ridicule we are blessed.  

Me personally, I just try and remember that it's about bringing souls to Christ.....not winning some silly debate. I don't have all the answers, but the ones I do have I share.  

Hatred of God is rampant today and increasing, but I don't return the hate.  I share the gospel of Christ because I do care about folks.

Yamcha

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1192 on: April 20, 2016, 06:59:21 AM »
 In this life we’re meant to go through the fire, but that fire is cleansing if you’re aligned with Christ.




The Lord works in mysterious ways.
a

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1193 on: April 20, 2016, 07:04:02 AM »


The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Keyser Soze  ;D

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1194 on: April 20, 2016, 07:24:31 AM »
It's the effect of our sinful choices that have brought about things like pain and fear upon the world.  We're subjected to evil, disease, famine, disasters, etc...all the results of our sin.   This world and it inhabitants exist in a perpetual state of decay leading to death because of sin.

The world calls this the problem of evil, but attribute it to God.  Many accept no responsibility and certainly aren't accountable for their actions.

God entrusted the whole of creation to humanity...to act as stewards and govern it.    God deemed his creation good and created man without sin.  Man chose to defy that relationship with God and thereby corrupt the goodness God established and incur his wrath.   Begs the question: given we know the potential for evil and outright engagement of evil within ourselves why do we continue to allow it?  We have every God given resource at our fingertips to prevent all sorts of atrocities, but we don’t eradicate such horrible things.  We hide behind politics and rhetoric and do nothing…..or we casually blame God…..shameful.

The reality is, it’s God’s good creation which is the platform for resolving the problem of evil.  Jesus left eternity and entered his finite creation as the incarnate Son of God who came to collect his church – those folks that reject sin and accept his standards and desire to be with him.  God wants folks to come unto him that truly want to be with him.  It’s our choice to accept or reject him that provides the purest pathway to eliminating evil.

Our autonomy ends when we enter eternity.   You’re a finite creation with finite choices to freely make in this finite existence, but those choices are still subject to infinite ramifications based upon his infinite terms (because God is infinite in nature).  The finite existence we live in is merely staging for what is yet to come and what we choose to do now determines the outcome of our eternal existence.  The realm of eternity – the infinite – is the final setting in which justice will be dealt out based upon our free choices in the finite.  Yet, when each of us exits this life the problem of evil is one step closer to achieving full resolution because the problem of evil is reconciled individually (despite the fact we typically only acknowledge it collectively).  It’s individuals that freely choose to assemble together to form the body of Christ and it’s individuals that freely choose to reject Christ.  In this life we’re meant to go through the fire, but that fire is cleansing if you’re aligned with Christ.



Parker

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1195 on: April 20, 2016, 07:25:00 AM »
My 10 and 12 year old kids just lectured their religious nutbag of an aunt on what bullshit creationism is and how there probably isn't too much difference between God and Santa Claus.  10 and 12.  Grow the fuck up people.
Why do I have the feeling that they will be lecturing you in the future. Kids don't "lecture" adults, it shows a lack of respect. This is allowed, cultivated, and grown. Yet GBers sit here call MOS names, laugh at him, laugh at Muslims---yet those who follow Christianity and Islam, Judaism, and other religions, and non-western cultures tend to have this "thing" about respecting ones elders.

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1196 on: April 20, 2016, 07:33:29 AM »
Why do I have the feeling that they will be lecturing you in the future. Kids don't "lecture" adults, it shows a lack of respect. This is allowed, cultivated, and grown. Yet GBers sit here call MOS names, laugh at him, laugh at Muslims---yet those who follow Christianity and Islam, Judaism, and other religions, and non-western cultures tend to have this "thing" about respecting ones elders.

In Islam they also have this "thing" where they marry pre-pubescent girls.

Some evangelical christians also have this "thing" where they beat their kids with canes.

Donny

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1197 on: April 20, 2016, 08:07:30 AM »
In Islam they also have this "thing" where they marry pre-pubescent girls.

Some evangelical christians also have this "thing" where they beat their kids with canes.
I remember in my early school years we got caned. Infact i remember before our Dinner we had to say Grace..a prayer. The Head master was like the pink Floyd video "another brick in the wall" with his black cloak and hat. My friend got caned because when praying he laughed. I got caned one time cause i farted out loud ;D

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1198 on: April 20, 2016, 08:20:02 AM »
Unfortunately the more confident and steadfast we are in our faithful walk with Christ the more this angers and intimidates some folks (especially staunch atheists).  

I'm sure you'd like to think so, however, the "staunch atheists" do not get angry with you for the most part and when they do it fizzles out quickly. You are leaving yourself wide open to trolling most of the time and most of the time you are ignored while people take the time to argue your points instead.

I think you are projecting your anger and intimidation on others. You are the one who is intimidated. Don't forget, you have had your share of meltdowns.

I expect that virtually everything I just wrote will be dismissed and mocked.  Or attempts will be made to reverse it trading evil for good and good for evil and absolve man of any and all accountability in the process.

Again you exaggerate as people do not disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing. What you write is often treated as absurd as it is predicated on the existence of your God, which you cannot prove to someone who does not already believe in him.

You can build an elaborate castle in the sand, but in the end you've only build it in sand.

Me personally, I just try and remember that it's about bringing souls to Christ.....not winning some silly debate. I don't have all the answers, but the ones I do have I share.  

I commend you on engaging in discussion and even though I consider you an otherwise decent guy I often find your answers highly nonsensical and absurd. You have defended God's behaviour in the Old Testament with sick rationalizations that are compatible with Bronze Age ethics. I ignored that whole discussion as for me it was more like a thought experiment, like debating the behaviour of Zeus from ancient Greek mythology when he disguised himself as a white bull and abducted a chick called Europa.

Pure mythology, the folklore of the times.

Hatred of God is rampant today and increasing, but I don't return the hate.  I share the gospel of Christ because I do care about folks.

Thanks for caring about us, but you cannot hate what does not exist, it would be absurd.

Alfurinn

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1199 on: April 20, 2016, 08:46:13 AM »
It happens. Why? Atheism is based on the facts, on the science and on the evidence what has been found and proved to be facts. Religion is based on faith, and that has nothing to do with intelligence.

Just try to explain this: There were this bloke in this thread telling he had a near death experience five years earlier, and he is endlessly thankful for God who saved him. So nice..

What we know about God? He is ruler of everything, nothing happens against his will, and everything happens by his will. So facts of the matter is that in the first place God make him nearly dead, it was his will and doings, and then this same God save him by letting him live, and this make him endlessly thankful.

So why in the first place he has to nearly kill him? He has all the power, why didn't him make this bloke learn the love of God some other way, like showing him the true kindness of the people? Why there has to be nearly death experience before people can believe God? God take a hold of your throat and squeeze until you obey his will, and you are thankful? And if he kill your child, you say, it was a gods will, but if he only crush your child so he would be handicapped to the end of his life, you thank God for saving his life? So your God is like gangster who make you obey with violence, and beat the crap out of you when ever he feels the need, and would kill all your kind if he happen to find that funny thing to do to you?

So religiousness is more like a mental illness which prevents people to learn the facts of this world by filling their head with the bullshit, and this is obvious fact, if you look religious fanatics, like islamists.

Well, I would say that religion is based on other factors like the need to explain the world around them, imagination, dellusions, need for power, etc. Faith is a secondary requirement after a certain belief has been proposed. You need to ask potential believers to believe blindly because of the lack of evidence in supernatural beings. This is how faith is created.