Author Topic: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?  (Read 102889 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1200 on: April 20, 2016, 09:09:46 AM »
I'm sure you'd like to think so, however, the "staunch atheists" do not get angry with you for the most part and when they do it fizzles out quickly. You are leaving yourself wide open to trolling most of the time and most of the time you are ignored while people take the time to argue your points instead.

I think you are projecting your anger and intimidation on others. You are the one who is intimidated. Don't forget, you have had your share of meltdowns.

Again you exaggerate as people do not disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing. What you write is often treated as absurd as it is predicated on the existence of your God, which you cannot prove to someone who does not already believe in him.

You can build an elaborate castle in the sand, but in the end you've only build it in sand.

I commend you on engaging in discussion and even though I consider you an otherwise decent guy I often find your answers highly nonsensical and absurd. You have defended God's behaviour in the Old Testament with sick rationalizations that are compatible with Bronze Age ethics. I ignored that whole discussion as for me it was more like a thought experiment, like debating the behaviour of Zeus from ancient Greek mythology when he disguised himself as a white bull and abducted a chick called Europa.

Pure mythology, the folklore of the times.

Thanks for caring about us, but you cannot hate what does not exist, it would be absurd.

Thanks for your input!

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1201 on: April 20, 2016, 10:00:19 AM »
mos

serious question

why do you keep using the word intimidate

again its the kind of thing a bully would do

if anyone is getting defensive its you

with you atheist high five post etc

all the non believers are doing is challenging your beliefs with facts and logic

you are being a prick seriously

grow up and stop patting yourself on the back like you are better than anyone else

you are a man who believes in a fairy tail because you are "intimidated" by your mortality
T

SF1900

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1202 on: April 20, 2016, 10:14:29 AM »
mos

serious question

why do you keep using the word intimidate

again its the kind of thing a bully would do

if anyone is getting defensive its you

with you atheist high five post etc

all the non believers are doing is challenging your beliefs with facts and logic

you are being a prick seriously

grow up and stop patting yourself on the back like you are better than anyone else

you are a man who believes in a fairy tail because you are "intimidated" by your mortality


I've said this once and I will say it again: MOS is extremely condescending, arrogant and rude. The difference is that he hides these traits behind religion, so it comes off as "loving" and "compassionate." It is the furthest thing from the truth.
X

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1203 on: April 20, 2016, 10:18:36 AM »
mos

serious question

why do you keep using the word intimidate

again its the kind of thing a bully would do

if anyone is getting defensive its you

with you atheist high five post etc

all the non believers are doing is challenging your beliefs with facts and logic

you are being a prick seriously

grow up and stop patting yourself on the back like you are better than anyone else

you are a man who believes in a fairy tail because you are "intimidated" by your mortality

Well, I've been told it's initimidating and it's demonstrated via a simple pattern of behavior from God haters.....it's light mockery, serious discussion, frustration over discussion, heavier mockery.

It's hard to make a case for bullying when it's typically 5 on 1.

I defend my faith constantly because someone has to.

The high five references are basically about SF that comes in randomly to throw gas on the fire and "RA! RA! Go team!" stuff. (sure enough there it is right above my post right on cue  ;D).

You challenge with opinions of scripture and pure subjectivity.  Nevermind the atheist doesn't understand the things of God or are they able to discern scripture....I demonstrate that repeatedly for y'all....constantly correcting things.

Whether I'm sugary sweet or direct and discussing sin the level of mockery has never changed....you don't like the topic and that I don't get stymied with the biblical objections.

I'm not better than anyone...I'm nobody.  I'm certainly not smarter than anyone....I just do my best.  I'm a wretched sinner saved by grace.  I owe everything to Jesus Christ and I share that with others so they might come to know Christ as well.

As I told you last week, you had my testimony backwards via the "mortality" cliche.  I was afraid of living not dying.  Lord drew me to him and rescued and changed me.  I share that change today.




bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1204 on: April 20, 2016, 10:26:05 AM »
so mos it wasn't patronizing and condescending

when you said i was out of my depth discussing this
T

SF1900

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1205 on: April 20, 2016, 10:26:40 AM »
I am not "high fiving" Bigmc.

I have said this hundred times about you. Deep down, yes, I do feel like you are arrogant, rude, and condescending. You just hide it behind your religion, so it comes off as "loving" and "compassionate."

But keep telling yourself that.  :D :D
X

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1206 on: April 20, 2016, 10:32:44 AM »
so mos it wasn't patronizing and condescending

when you said i was out of my depth discussing this

It's straight from scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1207 on: April 20, 2016, 10:34:43 AM »
It's straight from scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.


i asked for your opinion not a copy and paste

are you allowed independent thoughts and opinions

or are you only allowed to quote the book
T

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1208 on: April 20, 2016, 10:37:33 AM »
i asked for your opinion not a copy and paste

are you allowed independent thoughts and opinions

or are you only allowed to quote the book

I represent Christ.  I represent "the book".  Christ and "the book" are me and my opinions are based from them.

I have no shame or reservation in this whatsoever.

Of course I'm allowed independent thoughts and opinions, but I choose to align myself with Christ.

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1209 on: April 20, 2016, 12:14:46 PM »
I represent Christ.  I represent "the book".  Christ and "the book" are me and my opinions are based from them.

I have no shame or reservation in this whatsoever.

Of course I'm allowed independent thoughts and opinions, but I choose to align myself with Christ.

do you accept its condescending and patronizing to call me out my depth

in discussing these issues

normally someone losing the intellectual argument would stoop that low

its genuinely offensive to speak to people like that and hardly christian

your lack of tolerance is shameful
T

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1210 on: April 20, 2016, 02:09:36 PM »
do you accept its condescending and patronizing to call me out my depth

in discussing these issues

normally someone losing the intellectual argument would stoop that low

its genuinely offensive to speak to people like that and hardly christian

your lack of tolerance is shameful

It's straight from scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.


If it were a level playing field I'd say yes, but that isn't the case.  That doesn't mean I'm better or smarter than you or that you're a bad person...I'm not and you aren't.  Just means the things of God aren't understood by unbelievers, God haters, atheists, anti-theists, epistivists, agnostics, etc....   So no I do not.  

I have no expectation that any atheist on this board would agree with this passage.  I'm also not concerned about condescension....not my intention....just is what it is.

I've been insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted.......for years now.  

And insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted and insulted.......EVERY BIT justified by "hey if you can't accept the truth then you don't know what an insult is either".

Now, I've received a few apologies in the past so I won't dismiss that, but it ALWAYS goes right back to what it was (if not worse).

When I stand firm in my beliefs, when I give explanations of scripture that contradict objections, when I demonstrate to folks how they misunderstand it really sets them off.   What am I supposed to do though?  Yield and say, "yeah, maybe you're right."



avxo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1211 on: April 20, 2016, 08:25:18 PM »
It's the effect of our sinful choices that have brought about things like pain and fear upon the world.  We're subjected to evil, disease, famine, disasters, etc...all the results of our sin.   This world and it inhabitants exist in a perpetual state of decay leading to death because of sin.

Ah yes... of course... those little one and two year old kids in Africa are starving because of their "sinful choices." Just like the babies born with congenital heart defects. And the infants with cancer. And so on, and so forth... Yes, it's their own damn fault. If only they had accepted Jesus, then they wouldn't have be malnourished, or face brutal chemotherapy and radiation.


The world calls this the problem of evil, but attribute it to God.  Many accept no responsibility and certainly aren't accountable for their actions.

Even if people have a share - even the lion's share - of the burden, that doesn't absolve your God for any responsibility. Living, breating human beings are suffering this very second, having committed no crime other than to be born into this world. This is something that your God could have prevented to begin with, and something the could stop at any time but he chooses not to. And not only does he not accept responsibility, he has groupies - like you - that think he's holy, just and a moral authority that is beyond reproach.


God entrusted the whole of creation to humanity...to act as stewards and govern it.

And he did that knowing that we'd be shitty stewards and that his creation would suffer for it.


God deemed his creation good and created man without sin.  Man chose to defy that relationship with God and thereby corrupt the goodness God established and incur his wrath.

It must not have been a very good creation since... well... here we are.


Begs the question: given we know the potential for evil and outright engagement of evil within ourselves why do we continue to allow it?

It also begs the question why does God, who apparently hates this, continue to allow it, when it is within his power to conclusively end it.


We have every God given resource at our fingertips to prevent all sorts of atrocities, but we don’t eradicate such horrible things.  We hide behind politics and rhetoric and do nothing…..or we casually blame God…..shameful.

If you had the power to stop a rape from happening but chose not to use that power, should you not be, at least, shamed by the rest of us? If your God has that same ability, why should we use a different


The reality is, it’s God’s good creation which is the platform for resolving the problem of evil.

No. Assuming your God exists, then God himself created the problem of evil to begin with and now allows it to continue to exist and fester.


Jesus left eternity and entered his finite creation as the incarnate Son of God who came to collect his church – those folks that reject sin and accept his standards and desire to be with him.

It's unclear how Jesus "leaving eternity" and "entering his finite creation" helps anything, or why such a convoluted plan was even necessary. Why not simply make evil go away, forgive everyone, and we can all just remember this horrible human experience and laugh about it while sipping mojitos at the nudist section of Paradise beach?


God wants folks to come unto him that truly want to be with him.

According to Christian dogma, he knows everything, which means he knows what it would take for me to believe and want to be with him. Yet he doesn't take action. Which leads me to conclude that either he doesn't desire fellowship with me or that he simply doesn't exist.


It’s our choice to accept or reject him that provides the purest pathway to eliminating evil.

Is a choice made under duress really a choice? "Believe in me and be rewarded eternally, or else forever suffer!"


Our autonomy ends when we enter eternity.

If your God is omnipotent and omniscient, then we never had any autonomy to begin with. And if he's not omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not the God of the Bible.


You’re a finite creation with finite choices to freely make in this finite existence, but those choices are still subject to infinite ramifications based upon his infinite terms (because God is infinite in nature).

What are "infinite ramifications"? Are they countably or uncountably infinite? How are they different from "finite" ramifications?

AbrahamG

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1212 on: April 20, 2016, 09:26:28 PM »
I remember in my early school years we got caned. Infact i remember before our Dinner we had to say Grace..a prayer. The Head master was like the pink Floyd video "another brick in the wall" with his black cloak and hat. My friend got caned because when praying he laughed. I got caned one time cause i farted out loud ;D

Did the end of said cane make entry into your anus?

Fortress

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1213 on: April 20, 2016, 09:28:17 PM »
MOS has been told of my upbringing and subsequent and unwavering pledge of belief in God. That indeed there was a time in my 20s when I contemplated a life in the priesthood.

That I surrendered with the entirety of my being to my faith.

And ... nothing.

Then something DID happen: my intellect and capacity for reason began to clear the God fog. With each passing year I became more and more aware of the brainwashing I'd suffered. The clarity exposed the madness of religion and its inherent evil.

So what does MOS do when I detail my experience?

He says I'm full of shit.

Guess God figured, Fuck that Fortress guy! He believes in me. He loves me. He pledges his "soul" to me. Fuck 'im!

The problem is, if those suffering delusions brought on by mental illness can't emerge from the fantasy on their own strength and intellect, they're lost forever. No amount of reason from others can help them recognize their madness.

Wonder what MOS's fate will be.


Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1214 on: April 21, 2016, 05:13:06 AM »
It's straight from scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.


So even in Paul's lifetime there were people ("natural men") who thought theism was bullshit.

SupplementGuy

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1215 on: April 21, 2016, 08:33:51 PM »
So even in Paul's lifetime there were people ("natural men") who thought theism was bullshit.

Also rendered as "physical" man as opposed to "spiritual" man.

Sizwe

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1216 on: April 22, 2016, 05:51:28 AM »
MOS has been told of my upbringing and subsequent and unwavering pledge of belief in God. That indeed there was a time in my 20s when I contemplated a life in the priesthood.

That I surrendered with the entirety of my being to my faith.

And ... nothing.

Then something DID happen: my intellect and capacity for reason began to clear the God fog. With each passing year I became more and more aware of the brainwashing I'd suffered. The clarity exposed the madness of religion and its inherent evil.
So what does MOS do when I detail my experience?
He says I'm full of shit.
Guess God figured, Fuck that Fortress guy! He believes in me. He loves me. He pledges his "soul" to me. Fuck 'im!
The problem is, if those suffering delusions brought on by mental illness can't emerge from the fantasy on their own strength and intellect, they're lost forever. No amount of reason from others can help them recognize their madness.
Wonder what MOS's fate will be.

You lost faith, it happens, a lot.. doesn't require strength or anything special. And for religion being evil, well if there's no God, by who's standard is something evil?

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1217 on: April 22, 2016, 06:33:29 AM »
You lost faith, it happens, a lot.. doesn't require strength or anything special. And for religion being evil, well if there's no God, by who's standard is something evil?

Religion is unnecessary and sometimes antithetical to morality. See previous pages for biblical examples where the Christian God is anything but moral.

Morals are formed by people, not divine beings. There are no divine beings. The moral code of religions such as Christianity reflect the location and time period of the life of Jesus. The moral values discussed in the Bible were already established before Jesus was alive. Christian societies and cultures would later use the bible in forming their moral code. This does not mean that God created morality. People who do not believe in God or have a religion can still have strong morals because people, not gods, create them.

Sizwe

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1218 on: April 22, 2016, 07:06:15 AM »
Religion is unnecessary and sometimes antithetical to morality. See previous pages for biblical examples where the Christian God is anything but moral.

Morals are formed by people, not divine beings. There are no divine beings. The moral code of religions such as Christianity reflect the location and time period of the life of Jesus. The moral values discussed in the Bible were already established before Jesus was alive. Christian societies and cultures would later use the bible in forming their moral code. This does not mean that God created morality. People who do not believe in God or have a religion can still have strong morals because people, not gods, create them.

So then 'moral codes' are a highly subjective and individual thing hardly worthy of a debate?

MoralMan

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1219 on: April 22, 2016, 08:05:29 AM »
MOS, Christ never existed so how do you "get to know him?"

Is it like getting to know Santa?

Raymondo

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1220 on: April 22, 2016, 03:38:23 PM »
So then 'moral codes' are a highly subjective and individual thing hardly worthy of a debate?


Cultural, not individual. And they evolve. Subjective? Up to a point.

Man of Steel

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1221 on: April 22, 2016, 09:12:27 PM »
MOS, Christ never existed so how do you "get to know him?"

Is it like getting to know Santa?

Guess I'm just silly.

I'm checking out of this thread.....50 pages is good for me.

Necrosis

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1222 on: April 23, 2016, 03:27:32 AM »
So then 'moral codes' are a highly subjective and individual thing hardly worthy of a debate?


As subjective as murdering someone is bad, logic and reason dictate morals, this is a fact. It's not something that hasn't been studied to death ::) only religious people seem unaware of this. It is the reason morals have changed over time, why countries who rely on logic (secular) have far "better" morals then highly religious countries (muslim for example).

Being subjective doesn't mean something isn't worthy of debate, in what world does that make sense?

Your gods moral codes are subjective, there is no list of good and bad things to adhere to, logic dictates action. Situations are nuanced, would I always love my neighbor? should I? always? say it's hitler?

The chinese had a far better more civilized culture without jesus, how could this be? without the bible saying you should't murder people everyone would murder right?

And lastly, what you are suggesting is that morals are derived from a book, said another way, if MOS did not have his book he would be unable to resist killing nor would he understand it's bad. If the only thing keeping anyone moral is threat of eternal torture, they are not a good person to begin with.

SupplementGuy

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1223 on: April 23, 2016, 07:06:43 AM »
MOS, Christ never existed so how do you "get to know him?"

Is it like getting to know Santa?

You do realize that there is no debate that a man named Jesus Christ existed and had followers and was sentenced to death by the Roman Pontius Pilate right...

bigmc

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Re: So why doesnt God appear every now and again?
« Reply #1224 on: April 23, 2016, 07:31:12 AM »
You do realize that there is no debate that a man named Jesus Christ existed and had followers and was sentenced to death by the Roman Pontius Pilate right...

i think you will find there are several different "confirmed" stories regarding jesus

dont make statement of facts that are incorrect

you are on shaky ground as it is
T