Author Topic: Should the policemen have risked their lives to save drowning car thiefs?  (Read 16060 times)

Kwon

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Not really.
It's a Internet forum - Not a School English Class / Exam.
I'm sure there are plenty of Gramatical English Forums
That Would Appreciate your Help.
Why Not Go to one of Them & Display your talent.

HTH.

Would've
Q

Rudee

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3 of them and not one could operate a door handle  ???

Next to impossible if the doors are underwater and the water pressure inside and outside the car hasn't had time to equalize.

Twaddle

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You'll never know the true risk level because they lied.

"He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much."

Just watched the video.  It's night, they do not have life vests, they have no bounce dive training, and they have no command structure for a call of this nature.  The risk level for them is high, and they have no business being within 10 feet of the shoreline. 

This entire argument is about the same as seeing people trapped in a burning building and expecting the police to run in and save them.  Again, they don't have the specific training, equipment, nor command structure for such an incident. 

I for one commend these officers for not putting their lives at risk.  Had they jumped in the water and got in trouble, then they would become the emergency. 

Also, this is a good example of modern day natural selection.   :D

240 is Back

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But the cop said he tried to save them.

He tried to get hero points. 

Screw that. 

Twaddle

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But the cop said he tried to save them.

He tried to get hero points. 

Screw that. 

Yep, douche move on the cops part.  They should have just said, "It was too dangerous, so we didn't attempt a rescue." 

Fortress

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Not really.
It's a Internet forum - Not a School English Class / Exam.
I'm sure there are plenty of Gramatical English Forums
That Would Appreciate your Help.
Why Not Go to one of Them & Display your talent.

HTH.

Such a rudimentary mistake makes you appear to be an individual who hasn't attended school since the third grade.

Dipshit

drkaje

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There's another video out. Looks like two deputies went in and tried to help.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sheriff-officers-didnt-stand-by-and-watch-teens-drown/ar-BBs8aLo?ocid=spartanntp

"ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — When three Florida teenagers stole a car, crashed it into a cemetery pond and then drowned, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri talked about his frustration, about lives "needlessly lost," and how the vehicle became a death chamber for the three girls.

Now, nearly a month after the tragedy, Gualtieri is angrily defending his agency against accusations that his officers didn't do enough to rescue the girls as the car sank in 15 feet of water. Bloggers, some TV stations and comedian D.L. Hughley have posted about the March 30 incident that claimed the lives of two 15-year-olds and a 16-year-old from St. Petersburg.

"Police caught on tape watching girls die. They didn't even try to help. Just watched. Sickening," Hughley wrote Friday morning on Facebook. His post had more than 5,000 reactions and 7,000 shares.

The posted dashcam video, which Gualtieri said was a "misleadingly" edited version of the original, shows the scene and includes audio of some of the officers. One deputy comments that he thinks he hears screams coming from the car and another says, "They are done. They are sig-7 dude." Signal 7 is law enforcement code to indicate a fatality. Commenters on Facebook widely criticized the deputies for not going into the water and trying to save the people inside the sinking car.

Later Friday, Gualtieri posted a different dashcam video from a second cruiser on the department's Facebook page showing two officers walking by with clothes in hand. Gualtieri said that deputies waded into the water and tried to save the girls — and that the video proves it.

"Unfortunately, there's a false narrative that's being spread by people on social media," he said. "We're unfortunately in a society today that if it's not on video, then it didn't happen."

On one of many videos reviewed by The Associated Press on Friday, a camera captures a police cruiser driving to the pond, behind several other police cars. It parks, and then eight minutes later, a deputy in a black shirt walks in front of the camera, holding clothing in his hand. Seconds later, another deputy, in a tank top and holding a uniform, walks in front of the cruiser.

Officials say those two deputies attempted to enter the water but retreated due to safety concerns.

"The vehicle began listing forward, at which point, I took off my duty belt and attempted to swim out to the vehicle," wrote Deputy Logan Tromer, who is also on the Sheriff's Office dive team but who happened to be working the night shift. "I made it approximately 10-15 yards out; however, at this point the vehicle was facing front bumper down and was completely submerged within seconds. Due to the unknown depth, thick vegetation and officer safety concerns, I had no choice but to exit the water and suspend my rescue efforts."

According to deputies, Dominique Battle, 16, Ashaunti Butler, 15, and Laniya Miller, 15, drowned after they stole a gold Honda Accord from a Pinellas County Walmart parking lot. Though the county sheriff's rules forbid deputies from chasing stolen vehicles, some officers were trailing the car when the car plunged into a pond off a sharp turn in the road around 4 a.m. the next morning.

The Sheriff's Office does not have a policy about officers rescuing people in the water; a spokesman said it's up to the individual deputy at the time of the call.

Gualtieri told The Associated Press that the girls had seven arrests between them in the past year for auto theft, and that he's upset by not only the girls' deaths but an auto theft "epidemic" in the county.

"Don't put it on us. We didn't do anything wrong," he added.

A lawyer for the girls' family did not return a call for comment. Earlier, she told local news media that some of the officials' original statements about the deputies' actions were misleading."

SF1900

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There's another video out. Looks like two deputies went in and tried to help.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sheriff-officers-didnt-stand-by-and-watch-teens-drown/ar-BBs8aLo?ocid=spartanntp

"ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — When three Florida teenagers stole a car, crashed it into a cemetery pond and then drowned, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri talked about his frustration, about lives "needlessly lost," and how the vehicle became a death chamber for the three girls.

Now, nearly a month after the tragedy, Gualtieri is angrily defending his agency against accusations that his officers didn't do enough to rescue the girls as the car sank in 15 feet of water. Bloggers, some TV stations and comedian D.L. Hughley have posted about the March 30 incident that claimed the lives of two 15-year-olds and a 16-year-old from St. Petersburg.

"Police caught on tape watching girls die. They didn't even try to help. Just watched. Sickening," Hughley wrote Friday morning on Facebook. His post had more than 5,000 reactions and 7,000 shares.

The posted dashcam video, which Gualtieri said was a "misleadingly" edited version of the original, shows the scene and includes audio of some of the officers. One deputy comments that he thinks he hears screams coming from the car and another says, "They are done. They are sig-7 dude." Signal 7 is law enforcement code to indicate a fatality. Commenters on Facebook widely criticized the deputies for not going into the water and trying to save the people inside the sinking car.

Later Friday, Gualtieri posted a different dashcam video from a second cruiser on the department's Facebook page showing two officers walking by with clothes in hand. Gualtieri said that deputies waded into the water and tried to save the girls — and that the video proves it.

"Unfortunately, there's a false narrative that's being spread by people on social media," he said. "We're unfortunately in a society today that if it's not on video, then it didn't happen."

On one of many videos reviewed by The Associated Press on Friday, a camera captures a police cruiser driving to the pond, behind several other police cars. It parks, and then eight minutes later, a deputy in a black shirt walks in front of the camera, holding clothing in his hand. Seconds later, another deputy, in a tank top and holding a uniform, walks in front of the cruiser.

Officials say those two deputies attempted to enter the water but retreated due to safety concerns.

"The vehicle began listing forward, at which point, I took off my duty belt and attempted to swim out to the vehicle," wrote Deputy Logan Tromer, who is also on the Sheriff's Office dive team but who happened to be working the night shift. "I made it approximately 10-15 yards out; however, at this point the vehicle was facing front bumper down and was completely submerged within seconds. Due to the unknown depth, thick vegetation and officer safety concerns, I had no choice but to exit the water and suspend my rescue efforts."

According to deputies, Dominique Battle, 16, Ashaunti Butler, 15, and Laniya Miller, 15, drowned after they stole a gold Honda Accord from a Pinellas County Walmart parking lot. Though the county sheriff's rules forbid deputies from chasing stolen vehicles, some officers were trailing the car when the car plunged into a pond off a sharp turn in the road around 4 a.m. the next morning.

The Sheriff's Office does not have a policy about officers rescuing people in the water; a spokesman said it's up to the individual deputy at the time of the call.

Gualtieri told The Associated Press that the girls had seven arrests between them in the past year for auto theft, and that he's upset by not only the girls' deaths but an auto theft "epidemic" in the county.

"Don't put it on us. We didn't do anything wrong," he added.

A lawyer for the girls' family did not return a call for comment. Earlier, she told local news media that some of the officials' original statements about the deputies' actions were misleading."

So, admit that you were wrong. You stated, "We will never know the true risk level since they lied."

Obviously, risk level has absolutely nothing to do with it, and they are NOT required to go into waters to save lives (its up to the individual deputy). So, even if there was minimal risk, they are not required. Hell, their lives do not even have to be in jeopardy; water rescues are not even in the policy.

Given that florida waters are infested with gators, it was night, they waters are often murky and filled with sludge, and the fact that they are not thoroughly trained in underwater rescue operations, they had every right to stay out of the waters.
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drkaje

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So, admit that you were wrong. You stated, "We will never know the true risk level since they lied."

Obviously, risk level has absolutely nothing to do with it, and they are NOT required to go into waters to save lives (its up to the individual deputy). So, even if there was minimal risk, they are not required. Hell, their lives do not even have to be in jeopardy; water rescues are not even in the policy.

Given that florida waters are infested with gators, it was night, they waters are often murky and filled with sludge, and the fact that they are not thoroughly trained in underwater rescue operations, they had every right to stay out of the waters.

If the reports weren't falsified, I'm wrong.

I work in Tampa and have only seen 2 baby gators.

SF1900

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If the reports weren't falsified, I'm wrong.

I work in Tampa and have only seen 2 baby gators.

Even without the gators, the police ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ENGAGE IN WATER RESCUES!! You're wrong. Plain and simple.

Even without the gators, an under water rescue mission at night, without proper training, is still dangerous to the officers. They have every right not to put their lives at risk. Hell, they are not even required to do; its up to the individual officer/deputy at the time. It's okay if you do not want to admit you're wrong.
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drkaje

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They'll never turn things around.

I'm pretty much torn on this one. I feel the cops had a duty to try but there's no way to ever know if the conditions were unsafe because of the lies.

Even without the gators, the police ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ENGAGE IN WATER RESCUES!! You're wrong. Plain and simple.

Even without the gators, an under water rescue mission at night, without proper training, is still dangerous to the officers. They have every right not to put their lives at risk. Hell, they are not even required to do; its up to the individual officer/deputy at the time. It's okay if you do not want to admit you're wrong.

Tough to say what most people would do in that situation, especially considering whoever's drowning is less than sympathetic.

I wrote "feel" because the comment was about my feelings, LOL! I'd feel obligated to try helping their stupid asses if a cop. That's one of the reasons I'd never want the job. The officers' feelings are their own. If you feel I'm wrong that's fine, too.

I hope the unedited tape shows more. That being said, it's kind typical for us to be away from the original post topic and debating police policy. :)

chaos

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Tough to say what most people would do in that situation, especially considering whoever's drowning is less than sympathetic.

I wrote "feel" because the comment was about my feelings, LOL! I'd feel obligated to try helping their stupid asses if a cop. That's one of the reasons I'd never want the job. The officers' feelings are their own. If you feel I'm wrong that's fine, too.

I hope the unedited tape shows more. That being said, it's kind typical for us to be away from the original post topic and debating police policy. :)
If you tell him that he's right, he'll stfu. ;)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Fortress

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Let's quit the beta, whiney, feel-good horseshit.

If these girls had lived, they would have caused heartache, problem, money, and resources. Their existence was a liability to the peace, safety and lawfulness of Floridian residents.

It's best they're dead.

(And let's be real. If it was the opposite way, those girls would have hip-hop-rapped their brew joy that "Dem pigs are done". The officers's lives are worth substantially more than those of the no-goods.)

SF1900

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Tough to say what most people would do in that situation, especially considering whoever's drowning is less than sympathetic.

I wrote "feel" because the comment was about my feelings, LOL! I'd feel obligated to try helping their stupid asses if a cop. That's one of the reasons I'd never want the job. The officers' feelings are their own. If you feel I'm wrong that's fine, too.

I hope the unedited tape shows more. That being said, it's kind typical for us to be away from the original post topic and debating police policy. :)

Um, no. You wrote, "You'll never know the true risk level because they lied." In response to Twaddle saying that if the risk is too high, they are not required to attempt to save a life.

Clearly, protocol indirectly dictates that police officers are not required to engage in underwater rescue operations.  This is in direct contrast to your statement that "youll never know the true risk level because they lied." You were implying that risk level mattered. Risk level has absolutely nothing to do with it, since they are not required to make underwater rescue operations.  What don't you understand?  ??? ??? ???
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Explorerspl

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If the reports weren't falsified, I'm wrong.

I work in Tampa and have only seen 2 baby gators.

I've lived in FL awhile and have seen 10+ gators have to get removed from ponds just on people's property. All have been 5-8 foot

Rambone

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Even without the gators, the police ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ENGAGE IN WATER RESCUES!! You're wrong. Plain and simple.

Even without the gators, an under water rescue mission at night, without proper training, is still dangerous to the officers. They have every right not to put their lives at risk. Hell, they are not even required to do; its up to the individual officer/deputy at the time. It's okay if you do not want to admit you're wrong.

LOL

Tha Grim Lifter

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No, he should not have been required to run into a dark swamp - he could have easily drowned and he doesn't know what's coming at him.

BUT

he also should not have LIED and say he tried to save them.   Just be honest.  Lying cops make us good guys hate them.  If you lie ONCE as a cop, your ass needs to be gone.   Just move on to a job where you don't take an oath to follow a higher code of ethics and enjoy higher power and responsibility.

Cops can't tell the truth. Even if it's not their fault.

drkaje

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If you tell him that he's right, he'll stfu. ;)

Wouldn't "STFU, I don't think I'm wrong." be more respectful?

It's bad enough we're expected to placate women (over trivial shit) so they shut up. :)

kh300

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So the people inside couldn't open the door, but the cops could have?

chaos

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Wouldn't "STFU, I don't think I'm wrong." be more respectful?

It's bad enough we're expected to placate women (over trivial shit) so they shut up. :)
I found treating him like a woman keeps him pretty quiet. :)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

illuminati

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Such a rudimentary mistake makes you appear to be an individual who hasn't attended school since the third grade.

Dipshit




I see you think Quite The Hero on Here Big Fella.
And Like to Be The Big Man.  ::)
For such an educated Man you Have to Resort to Childish Name calling
Speaks Volumes about your Pompous Intellect.

It's a Internet Board -- Not a Class Room.
Try & Understand that not everyone bothers to check their spelling
or Grammer when posting.

I will liken you to a Cloaca.
Good Day.


deadz

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Their skin colour/ethnicity doesn't make one bit of difference to me: I would NOT have risked my own life to save some delinquents.

Our planet is occupied with over seven billion humans. An individual needs to earn the privilege of being worthy of saving/effort. Otherwise, you're baggage to decent folk.

These girls made poor choices and their cards were quickly punched by nature. Their worthlessness will be replicated a thousand times over (trash reproduces at an alarming rate) during the brief moments it takes for them to cease to exist in that dark, murky pond.

Means nothing.

Their fate wasn't an accident born of innocence. They chose to be scum and now they're dead.

Fuck 'em.
IRL we'd probably be best friends. I tend to always agree with your way of thinking.
T

The Abdominal Snoman

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So the people inside couldn't open the door, but the cops could have?

Pressure in the car would build up making it almost impossible for the young girls to open the door. They most likely would have had to smash the window with something to get it to shatter. At their age they probably wouldn't know this.  Police also probably would have had to do that. Once that car starts sinking, it would probably be less than 30 seconds before the girls drowned. The cops only choice would have been to smash it with their flashlight. Billy club probably wouldn't have worked. I don't think the cops did anything wrong here. They know as soon as that car goes under, people in it are toast unless they can get themselves out. We've all watched too many movies where a car goes under for minutes and the person in the car is holding their breathe trying to get out. That just isn't going to happen in the real world. These girls most likely had next to no time to think(because of their age) and went instantly into a panic. It's tragic but I don't think anything could have been done. 

Hypertrophy

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Interesting question DrK. My brother was a police officer and a diver for the force. He did search and rescue all the time. The armchair types who criticize the police never fail to amaze me.

My brother had to go on a search and rescue of a car driven off a bridge into a river. He geared up, dove in,  and said it was so bad he couldn't see his hand in front of him. Meanwhile there were strong currents so my brother was tethered to a rope held by other officers on shore.

He managed to find the car but no body, until he turned to go back and he hit the floating corpse face to face. He said he nearly went into shock.

Water rescues are among the most dangerous of all.  You have to deal with water pressure, currents, visibility and lots of other unforeseen conditions.

As for these comments "A firefighter will run into a burning building" - umm - all depends. In my old home city 5 guys lost their life doing that. Just because you are a public servant doesn't mean you have to risk your life every day.


LittleJ

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I'm not gay, LittleRacistJihad

I meant Uncle Toms! Did you attend the KKK rally at Stone Mountain Park?