Baltimore police: Officers 'compelled' to chase 13-year-old with BB gun

[dr.chimps]

First, my conversation with you in this thread was about the shooting. I had no involvement with your personal encounter with a cop years ago and don't know why you even brought that into our discussion. It has nothing to do with deadly force situations or anything remotely similar to what we were talking about. Maybe you got me confused with someone else

secondly, I have seen both sides of the coin. I've had citizens complain about a cop and swear up and down X happened. I've reviewed the video and found X never happened. I've also had the opposite occur. So since I don't know you personally, and I haven't talked to the other party, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude what happened. I can certainly say for sure that  IF everything you said was true, then of course that was inappropriate of the cop. Which monthly "accommodation" was she trying to win? Did you research the location to determine if there were an unusual amount of traffic collisions there?

Lastly, you probably won't see it, but your credibility is not the best. You've been caught putting out false info as gospel many times and then pretend it never happened. Doesn't help your cause. 

 

You talk too much. Not a cop. 

[Agnostic007]

What were some of those opposite occurrences?

An officer used his badge to get into a movie free,  responding that he was on the security contract when asked. He was not on the contract.  While there was no sound to the video, the employees version of what happened made more sense than the officers version of what happened. He was terminated for lying

An officer was involved in a minor collision with a citizen while responding to a call code 3. Caused slight damage to the citizen vehicle. He claimed he didn't realize the vehicles had made contact but that he had hit a pot hole or speed bump. in car video indicated from his response that it was likely he knew. 90 day suspension as there was some question about it.

An officer struck a citizen after the citizen spit in her face. But it wasn't a single strike, she hit the citizen and then had to be pulled off. The officer that pulled her off didn't put it in his report. Citizen complained.  Both officers were terminated after reviewing the videos.   

[SF1900]

again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny. 

But in the Lethal Weapons movies, Mel Gibson and Danny Glover always hit the guy in the chest. 

[Las Vegas]

An officer used his badge to get into a movie free,  responding that he was on the security contract when asked. He was not on the contract.  While there was no sound to the video, the employees version of what happened made more sense than the officers version of what happened. He was terminated for lying

An officer was involved in a minor collision with a citizen while responding to a call code 3. Caused slight damage to the citizen vehicle. He claimed he didn't realize the vehicles had made contact but that he had hit a pot hole or speed bump. in car video indicated from his response that it was likely he knew. 90 day suspension as there was some question about it.

An officer struck a citizen after the citizen spit in her face. But it wasn't a single strike, she hit the citizen and then had to be pulled off. The officer that pulled her off didn't put it in his report. Citizen complained.  Both officers were terminated after reviewing the videos.   

Kind of tough to become upset with the cop whose face took spit, but I know things must be done in a certain way -- even when being assaulted.

[dr.chimps]

Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.

[Las Vegas]

Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.

I think he's in a position that allows him to remain disconnected.  Maybe he wears a headset all day with "Accentuate the Positive" blasting away on it.

 

[dr.chimps]

I think he's in a position that allows him to remain disconnected.  Maybe he wears a headset all day with "Accentuate the Positive" blasting away on it.

 

10-4.

[Agnostic007]

Kind of tough to become upset with the cop whose face took spit, but I know things must be done in a certain way -- even when being assaulted.

The initial response of being spit on is taken into account. We're all human after all. But after the initial response, "losing it" isn't acceptable. She lost it. While I can understand how that can happen, she also wasn't forthright in her version of what happened which added to the issue. She minimized her actions. Had she from the getgo said "Holy cow, I've never had someone spit in my face, it got all in my eyes and mouth and I just reacted, but I went overboard and I'm so glad my partner was there to intervene" she could have saved her job. Lying about it is never a good idea 

[Agnostic007]

Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.

Started in Law Enforcement with the Air Force in May of 1982. Went to K9 and worked patrol/drug dogs till around '87. Then I trained bomb and drug dog teams until my separation in 92. Started at my Department in Jan of 93 and will be retiring on or about August 1st. Still have to figure out my last day of working. Hopefully it is in the 2nd half of July. After that I plan on doing some traveling. So about 34 years in Law Enforcement. Some don't count military as being Law Enforcement so about 23.5 years as a civilian cop.
When I started at this department, I would have done it for free if I didn't have bills to pay. Really have enjoyed my career. I won't miss it though.   

[Las Vegas]

The initial response of being spit on is taken into account. We're all human after all. But after the initial response, "losing it" isn't acceptable. She lost it. While I can understand how that can happen, she also wasn't forthright in her version of what happened which added to the issue. She minimized her actions. Had she from the getgo said "Holy cow, I've never had someone spit in my face, it got all in my eyes and mouth and I just reacted, but I went overboard and I'm so glad my partner was there to intervene" she could have saved her job. Lying about it is never a good idea 

Yes, I agree.  It's so often the lies that do it in.

[Agnostic007]

Yes, I agree.  It's so often the lies that do it in.

Was just talking about that with a co worker the other day. It's baffling. From day 1 in the academy cadets are taught to tell the truth. Example after example is given to them about officers who could have survived the suspension or discipline but thought they would lie their way out of it. And the odd thing is, most of the time it's not the lying you would expect. I would expect if an officer got caught with a duffle back of money and drugs they would lie about it, or something major like that, but much of the time they lose their jobs over things that really don't matter. The truth would not have resulted in their career being over. But pride, embarrassment, whatever, they go down that path of not telling the truth. Like the guy who said he was on the movie theater contract to get the comp tickets.. you lose your career over saving a couple bucks on a ticket? Fortunately, we see more often than not, officers who will fall on their sword and take their medicine. But I still can't wrap my head around losing your job, your credibility, integrity, reputation over some of the things they lie about

[Las Vegas]

Was just talking about that with a co worker the other day. It's baffling. From day 1 in the academy cadets are taught to tell the truth. Example after example is given to them about officers who could have survived the suspension or discipline but thought they would lie their way out of it. And the odd thing is, most of the time it's not the lying you would expect. I would expect if an officer got caught with a duffle back of money and drugs they would lie about it, or something major like that, but much of the time they lose their jobs over things that really don't matter. The truth would not have resulted in their career being over. But pride, embarrassment, whatever, they go down that path of not telling the truth. Like the guy who said he was on the movie theater contract to get the comp tickets.. you lose your career over saving a couple bucks on a ticket? Fortunately, we see more often than not, officers who will fall on their sword and take their medicine. But I still can't wrap my head around losing your job, your credibility, integrity, reputation over some of the things they lie about

I'd say it's a good indicator of how little they value the truth.  They figure "no, it's better this way" and they go with it.

[Agnostic007]

Could be.. I think for some, they are just ok with lying. I've seen those types throughout my career. But I've seen some who were really good people who let themselves get caught up in the lie and can't turn back, and I think in the case I am thinking of where I had involvement, it was embarrassment. The issue was minor and the officer thought it was not going to be a big deal and off the cuff lied thinking that would be the end of it. No body hurt by the lie, what he did was stupid and he didn't want to own it. Then it snowballed and he couldn't come off it because he had already committed. I knew he was lying, he knew he was lying, it wasn't about anything but whether the clerk asked him "Are you on the contract?" verses "Are you with APD?" His response, which they both agreed on, didn't make sense if it was what he said she asked. He just couldn't let it go. In that case, I think he was afraid to admit he lied because he would be looked down upon. He would rather lose his job, or risk losing his job hoping against hope we wouldn't terminate him.

[Las Vegas]

Could be.. I think for some, they are just ok with lying. I've seen those types throughout my career. But I've seen some who were really good people who let themselves get caught up in the lie and can't turn back, and I think in the case I am thinking of where I had involvement, it was embarrassment. The issue was minor and the officer thought it was not going to be a big deal and off the cuff lied thinking that would be the end of it. No body hurt by the lie, what he did was stupid and he didn't want to own it. Then it snowballed and he couldn't come off it because he had already committed. I knew he was lying, he knew he was lying, it wasn't about anything but whether the clerk asked him "Are you on the contract?" verses "Are you with APD?" His response, which they both agreed on, didn't make sense if it was what he said she asked. He just couldn't let it go. In that case, I think he was afraid to admit he lied because he would be looked down upon. He would rather lose his job, or risk losing his job hoping against hope we wouldn't terminate him.

Maybe that's what it takes for them to learn.  Next time, they'll know it isn't worth it.

How would it affect someone's ability to become a cop somewhere else, if caught lying about something minor (and fired from original job)?

[Agnostic007]

Maybe that's what it takes for them to learn.  Next time, they'll know it isn't worth it.

How would it affect someone's ability to become a cop somewhere else, if caught lying about something minor (and fired from original job)?

I'm not sure about nation wide, but they are unable to become a police officer in the state of Texas if terminated for an honesty issue. Any department that does a background check would likely pass on someone terminated for that reason.

[240 is Back]

we had a local cop with 3 violence charges, including on where he shoved a dude to the ground in a bar on video.

was fired from the city, just picked up the same job with county. 

[Agnostic007]

we had a local cop with 3 violence charges, including on where he shoved a dude to the ground in a bar on video.

was fired from the city, just picked up the same job with county. 

Something that is not uncommon is that when an officer sees the writing on the wall, they will resign prior to their termination hearing. If that is the case, they are not ineligible to be hired elsewhere. In some cases, the new department will review the allegations and may not agree with the prior departments findings, or think it was an overreaction. Then you factor in the training that the officer has that the new department won't have to pay for and that can look attractive to a department that may not have their own academy, or has an accelerated academy for officers with prior service. We were about to terminate an officer here who resigned at the last minute. He was just not cut out for policing and had issues during his field training period. He left out department and went to work for a smaller suburb even after we warned that department. Wasn't long before they had to fire him for similar things we warned them about.

[dr.chimps]

Something that is not uncommon is that when an officer sees the writing on the wall, they will resign prior to their termination hearing. If that is the case, they are not ineligible to be hired elsewhere. In some cases, the new department will review the allegations and may not agree with the prior departments findings, or think it was an overreaction. Then you factor in the training that the officer has that the new department won't have to pay for and that can look attractive to a department that may not have their own academy, or has an accelerated academy for officers with prior service. We were about to terminate an officer here who resigned at the last minute. He was just not cut out for policing and had issues during his field training period. He left out department and went to work for a smaller suburb even after we warned that department. Wasn't long before they had to fire him for similar things we warned them about.

You talk too much.  I know you're not a cop. You want the whole board to know? 

[Zillotch]

I know you're not a cop. You want the whole board to know? 

dish

[Agnostic007]

You talk too much.  I know you're not a cop. You want the whole board to know?  

Do tell    I'm calling your bluff

[Agnostic007]

Dr. Chimps?...

[Agnostic007]

Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.

The irony..