Hebrew powerlifters

[mr.turbo]

if hebrews aren't powerlifting it's not genetics

the entire population in north america was invited for their abilities to complete agricultural labour tasks

I would hazard a guess at financial reasons, it' s more of a "hobby" and a lot of folks simply don't have time for such nonsense.

[denarii]

Big Lenny and Blaha are renowned powerlifters as well.

[NordicNerd]

Because there's no money in it. Otherwise we'd dominate that just like everything else.

There is lots of money in soccer but no black dominance. The two best players in the world are white/latino. Same goes for cycling- big money but very few blacks.

NN

[dj181]

whites dominate the bench

check world records and 90% of the title holders are white

but in the squat and dead the black man is able to hang with whitey

[SuperTed]

if hebrews aren't powerlifting it's not genetics

the entire population in north america was invited for their abilities to complete agricultural labour tasks

I would hazard a guess at financial reasons, it' s more of a "hobby" and a lot of folks simply don't have time for such nonsense.

But the same could be said of BB, yet blacks often dominate throughout the weight classes.
Most would agree that blacks have a genetic advantage when it comes to BB and athleticism, so why is it so outlandish to believe that they may be disadvantaged when it comes to absolute strength?

[Rusty Trombone]

You could be right and I definitely agree with the point regarding the strength culture in Eastern Europe.
However, with blacks dominating bodybuilding, it seems odd that they are underrepresented in strength sports - given that all these practices involve lifting weights. It might be down to genetic factors.
With Olympic lifting, has a black man ever done a +230kg C&J?

[Rusty Trombone]

I can name a few dozen -

1) Ray Williams 6) Rick Grizzly Brown 11) Greg Beetle Lowe 16) Robert Wilkerson 21) Richard Hawthorne 26) Orlando Green
2) Don Blue      7) CT Fletcher            12) Walter Thomas     17) Steve Goggins    22) Joe Morrow             27) M Henry
3) Lamar Gant   Dave Shaw            13) John Gamble        18) Joe Bradley        23) Tony Conyers          28) Sly Crumbley
4) OD Wilson    9) Tee Myers              14) Paul Dicks             19) Bull Stewart      24) Dan Austin              29)  Curtis Leslie
5) Jim Williams 10) Gene Bell             15) James Henderson  20) Al Davis            25) Doc Holloway           30) *Strongman M Felix
31) Rock Lewis  32) Precious McKenzie 33) Dondell Blue

Technically, you can throw Ronnie Coleman (early years), and Johnnie Jackson in there too, if you wanted.

* Not PL, but close.

I've never heard of any of them.

But then again,I don't follow powerlifting in depth.

[SuperTed]

Well, the top 3 three places at the last Olympia were won by black bodybuilders.

[WannaBePro]

Big Lenny and Blaha are renowned powerlifters as well.

Lenny's buddy Andrew was legit. There's a video out there where they're in a meet and Andrew benched something ridiculous, I think it was 650 raw. Made it look easy too.

Actually, here's the video

[Al Doggity]

But the same could be said of BB, yet blacks often dominate throughout the weight classes.
Most would agree that blacks have a genetic advantage when it comes to BB and athleticism, so why is it so outlandish to believe that they may be disadvantaged when it comes to absolute strength?

They really aren't the same. I've been working out regularly for nearly 20 years and have belonged to some relatively serious gyms.  At most of the gyms I've belonged to, there were easy ins to bodybuilding. There's almost always a group of hardcore muscleheads. A few of the gyms I trained at had pros who worked out there, too. I actually don't remember any of the gyms I belonged to having serious power lifting/ strength training crews. The guys training for muscular size are still strong, but they're not really overlapping communities. Powerlifting and strength communities are still way more cultish. From a practical perspective, most people's primary objectives in regards to physical fitness are superficial. So just taking that into account, it's easy to understand why the appeal is different.

[mr.turbo]

But the same could be said of BB, yet blacks often dominate throughout the weight classes.
Most would agree that blacks have a genetic advantage when it comes to BB and athleticism, so why is it so outlandish to believe that they may be disadvantaged when it comes to absolute strength?

Why would their ancestors would be brought here from across the ocean to lift heavy things if they are genetically weak?

 

hate to shatter so many dreams today

here's a study:

Black males were significantly stronger in bench press at initial-recruit and at in-service than white males.

http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1604&context=ijes

[BB]

I've never heard of any of them.

But then again,I don't follow powerlifting in depth.

There's actually a lot of top ten finishers, and a few sometime record holders on that list. Something interesting is that many of them (about half the list) came up during the raw and lightly geared eras. One thing that someone posed that was kinda interesting is the wondering if heavily geared powerlifting killed some of the enthusiasm for it among the poor and lower middle class because of the cost of advancing through the geared ranks in terms of shirt costs, etc....

[NordicNerd]

But the same could be said of BB, yet blacks often dominate throughout the weight classes.
Most would agree that blacks have a genetic advantage when it comes to BB and athleticism, so why is it so outlandish to believe that they may be disadvantaged when it comes to absolute strength?

Most top powerlifters have wide waists and big joints. Most blacks have narrower waist which may be a disadvantage from a purely biomechanical perspective.

NN

[SuperTed]

They really aren't the same. I've been working out regularly for nearly 20 years and have belonged to some relatively serious gyms.  At most of the gyms I've belonged to, there were easy ins to bodybuilding. There's almost always a group of hardcore muscleheads. A few of the gyms I trained at had pros who worked out there, too. I actually don't remember any of the gyms I belonged to having serious power lifting/ strength training crews. The guys training for muscular size are still strong, but they're not really overlapping communities. Powerlifting and strength communities are still way more cultish. From a practical perspective, most people's primary objectives in regards to physical fitness are superficial. So just taking that into account, it's easy to understand why the appeal is different.

They aren't the same but they do overlap IME. Many powerlifters originally started training for bodybuilding purposes but switched once they realized that strength rather than aesthetics was their forte. Most people train to look better but everyone who has ever trained consistently would have trained heavy at some point and attempted a 1RM on a few exercises. Almost all top bodybuilders have incorporated powerlifting methods into their routines at times. If you find yourself genetically gifted for strength, you will automatically want to work towards that. People will gravitate to what they are good at.   

Why would their ancestors would be brought here from across the ocean to lift heavy things if they are genetically weak?

 

Who said anything about blacks being genetically weak?
There have been many world class strength athletes that were black. The point is that there is noticeable lack of black competitors in the field of strength athletics.
What does slavery have to do with this? That was done purely for free labour.

here's a study:

Black males were significantly stronger in bench press at initial-recruit and at in-service than white males.

http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1604&context=ijes

I'm aware of that study as well as other studies showing blacks having naturally higher T levels. This is why I said it was odd that blacks tend to be underrepresented not just in powerlifting, but in strongman, weightlifting and other Olympic strength events (shot put, hammer throw…etc). I think the point NordicNerd made above has a lot of truth in it. Blacks tend to be slimmer around the waist and hips which may be a disadvantage when it comes to absolute strength in the compound lifts.

[mr.turbo]

They aren't the same but they do overlap IME. Many powerlifters originally started training for bodybuilding purposes but switched once they realized that strength rather than aesthetics was their forte. Most people train to look better but everyone who has ever trained consistently would have trained heavy at some point and attempted a 1RM on a few exercises. Almost all top bodybuilders have incorporated powerlifting methods into their routines at times. If you find yourself genetically gifted for strength, you will automatically want to work towards that. People will gravitate to what they are good at.    

Who said anything about blacks being genetically weak?
There have been many world class strength athletes that were black. The point is that there is noticeable lack of black competitors in the field of strength athletics.
What does slavery have to do with this? That was done purely for free labour.

I'm aware of that study as well as other studies showing blacks having naturally higher T levels. This is why I said it was odd that blacks tend to be underrepresented not just in powerlifting, but in strongman, weightlifting and other Olympic strength events (shot put, hammer throw…etc). I think the point NordicNerd made above has a lot of truth in it. Blacks tend to be slimmer around the waist and hips which may be a disadvantage when it comes to absolute strength in the compound lifts.

hmm well I'd be curious to see if that's true regarding the bone structure. We do know that black folks have higher bone density, lean body mass etc. If someone can present something objective beyond simply fairytale type claims then I'd love to see it.

If you compare Paul Anderson to Mark Henry you can see a difference in structure that you're talking about but it doesn't seem to affect performance.

[mr.turbo]

Here's a discussion on swimming vs sprinting that examines the influence of the centre of gravity

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2010/07/lose_the_race.html

[residue]

isnt Richard Hawthorne the pound for pound strongest power lifter in the world?

[SuperTed]

hmm well I'd be curious to see if that's true regarding the bone structure. We do know that black folks have higher bone density, lean body mass etc. If someone can present something objective beyond simply fairytale type claims then I'd love to see it.

If you compare Paul Anderson to Mark Henry you can see a difference in structure that you're talking about but it doesn't seem to affect performance.

There isn't any. Which is why I said originally that it would be good if proper research was done into this topic. What we do know though is that for all the superior muscle mass, bone density and T levels of blacks, there is a noticeable lack of black world class strength athletes.

I think a thicker waist and hips is beneficial for deadlifting, squatting and other compound lifting although this isn't always the case of course.

[Al Doggity]

They aren't the same but they do overlap IME. Many powerlifters originally started training for bodybuilding purposes but switched once they realized that strength rather than aesthetics was their forte. Most people train to look better but everyone who has ever trained consistently would have trained heavy at some point and attempted a 1RM on a few exercises. Almost all top bodybuilders have incorporated powerlifting methods into their routines at times. If you find yourself genetically gifted for strength, you will automatically want to work towards that. People will gravitate to what they are good at.   

You seemed to overlook the main point of my previous post. I didn't say that powerlifting and bodybuilding techniques don't overlap, but that the communities don't . Almost every gym has some sort of bodybuilding community. Most gyms don't have serious or even casual powerlifting communities. If you are exceptionally strong, you are most likely hanging out/ working out with the bodybuilding guys, who are also strong.

[residue]

hmm well I'd be curious to see if that's true regarding the bone structure. We do know that black folks have higher bone density, lean body mass etc. If someone can present something objective beyond simply fairytale type claims then I'd love to see it.

If you compare Paul Anderson to Mark Henry you can see a difference in structure that you're talking about but it doesn't seem to affect performance.

that's not mark Henry the lifter, that's mark Henry the wrestler. there's a difference in weight and body comp

[SuperTed]

You seemed to overlook the main point of my previous post. I didn't say that powerlifting and bodybuilding techniques don't overlap, but that the communities don't . Almost every gym has some sort of bodybuilding community. Most gyms don't have serious or even casual powerlifting communities. If you are exceptionally strong, you are most likely hanging out/ working out with the bodybuilding guys, who are also strong.

Pretty much my point. If you exceptionally strong, you are likely going to consider entering a PL meet because that is where you can best display your strength. Most of the strongest bodybuilder's did partake in a PL event at one stage during their career's (ie. Coleman, O'Hearn..etc). It's niche, but so is wearing thong and posing on stage.

[oldgolds]

My observations are that they are usually not very strong..At least without steroids.

[Al Doggity]

Pretty much my point. If you exceptionally strong, you are likely going to consider entering a PL meet because that is where you can best display your strength. Most of the strongest bodybuilder's did partake in a PL event at one stage during their career's (ie. Coleman, O'Hearn..etc). It's niche, but so is wearing thong and posing on stage.

No, that's exactly the opposite of your point.  Your point is that  if you are exceptionally strong you are going to consider  entering a PL meet. My point is that if you are exceptionally strong, you are likely NOT going to consider PL because statistically your exposure to that community not that great. Sure bodybuilding is niche, but powerlifting is far, far more niche. Like I said, very few gyms have people lifted in powerlifting while most have people interested in bodybuilding.

[Royalty]

I know some black powerlifters. As Wiggs said, there is no money in the sport. So, those people that do it, do it for the love of the sport. Not for money.

PS: everyone in that sport seems to have at least 1 or 2 major injuries (torn pec, torn tri, torn bi, knee injury)

[SuperTed]

No, that's exactly the opposite of your point.  Your point is that  if you are exceptionally strong you are going to consider  entering a PL meet. My point is that if you are exceptionally strong, you are likely NOT going to consider PL because statistically your exposure to that community not that great. Sure bodybuilding is niche, but powerlifting is far, far more niche. Like I said, very few gyms have people lifted in powerlifting while most have people interested in bodybuilding.

Why the fuck aren't you going to consider entering a PL meet if you happen to be exceptionally strong?
Even with zero exposure to PL, your peers would suggest it if they see you reguarly hoisting up heavy weights.
Most of the strongest BB's entered PL meets at one point.  

No offence but you aren't clued up on this topic. The fact you thought PL was an Olympic event kinda proves that.