Author Topic: Tour de France.....cycling.  (Read 6293 times)

Dr Dutch

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Tour de France.....cycling.
« on: July 23, 2016, 11:20:38 AM »
Any getbiggers stlll interested in the biggest and worldwide (except USA) most followed 3 weeks cycling race ?
Chris Froome (UK) is going to win it , tomorrow.....

Best cyclist ever as far as I am concerned, in order 1 to 3:

1. Eddy Mercks (Belgium)
2. Bernard Hinault (France)
3. Lance Armstrong (USA)

Using gear/amfetamines/epo/cortisone or whatever doesn't mean a shit, they all did en do.

Froome is the justified winner of the 2016 tour, I think.

Says Dr Dutch.

Slapper

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2016, 11:50:51 AM »
Any getbiggers stlll interested in the biggest and worldwide (except USA) most followed 3 weeks cycling race ?
Chris Froome (UK) is going to win it , tomorrow.....

Best cyclist ever as far as I am concerned, in order 1 to 3:

1. Eddy Mercks (Belgium)
2. Bernard Hinault (France)
3. Lance Armstrong (USA)

Using gear/amfetamines/epo/cortisone or whatever doesn't mean a shit, they all did en do.

Froome is the justified winner of the 2016 tour, I think.

Says Dr Dutch.

Errrrr. No. Lance had advanced warning of tests, gave money to WADA and had a plane loaded with the most exotic performance-enhancing undetectable cocktails imaginable. To say that everyone was competing against him on equal grounds is a crock o shit. Lance was simply on a better program. And Froome, as well as most of the Skybots, are on a better program.

In my opinion:

1. Eddie Merckx - Because he wanted to win everything every time
2. Miguel Indurain - Resting heartbeat of 28bpm and lungs the size of two 45lbs plates/guy was a natural wonder and demolished everyone
3. Bernard Hinault - Never gave up, always on the attack, never surrendered


Nails

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2016, 11:52:51 AM »

Julio Ceasar

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2016, 01:07:32 PM »
Iv been watching every stage this year. I like cycling! Got two racebikes myself. Love bikes! Bodybuilding and billing is the only teo things I follow on YouTube accept some life guidance sites motivation happiness and shit like that...

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2016, 01:11:53 PM »
Errrrr. No. Lance had advanced warning of tests, gave money to WADA and had a plane loaded with the most exotic performance-enhancing undetectable cocktails imaginable. To say that everyone was competing against him on equal grounds is a crock o shit. Lance was simply on a better program. And Froome, as well as most of the Skybots, are on a better program.

In my opinion:

1. Eddie Merckx - Because he wanted to win everything every time
2. Miguel Indurain - Resting heartbeat of 28bpm and lungs the size of two 45lbs plates/guy was a natural wonder and demolished everyone
3. Bernard Hinault - Never gave up, always on the attack, never surrendered


You know your stuff.....maybe Jan Ullrich is top 3, he loved life to much for his potential to come out. Had he done everything right with the Mercks cannibal mindset, he might have rivalled Mercks.
But that's just my opinion. We'll never know...
Indurain was the Ivan Drago (Rocky 4) of cycling. On paper the forever king, but no personality and no imagination.... :D

viking1

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2016, 01:12:08 PM »
It was a great tour this year. Things seemed to be more even keeled which led to most stages being unpredictable. The Olympic years always make the Tour exciting too. Potential Olympic Team Candidates have to show more aggressiveness trying to catch the eye and earn a spot on the team.

I think #3 should be switched out with Lemond. He won/raced more races than Lance did. Lance primarily sat out most races and focused on the Tour year after year.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2016, 01:16:53 PM »
It was a great tour this year. Things seemed to be more even keeled which led to most stages being unpredictable. The Olympic years always make the Tour exciting too. Potential Olympic Team Candidates have to show more aggressiveness trying to catch the eye and earn a spot on the team.

I think #3 should be switched out with Lemond. He won/raced more races than Lance did. Lance primarily sat out most races and focused on the Tour year after year.
x2 but that has been the way it went over the years.
Mercks wanted to enter plus win all races and he did until he had to retire at 30 cause of back injuries. He's miles ahead in any classification, would he start today and be clever he'd win the TDF for 15 to 20 yrs in a row....not kidding.

viking1

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2016, 01:17:52 PM »
"I control the field from the front"     Best quote I ever heard from Eddy.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2016, 01:20:44 PM »
About Mercks being the best ever: must be 80% mindset. No way he could have been that much better than the competition physically......boggles how these things work.

Hypertrophy

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 01:23:10 PM »
Errrrr. No. Lance had advanced warning of tests, gave money to WADA and had a plane loaded with the most exotic performance-enhancing undetectable cocktails imaginable. To say that everyone was competing against him on equal grounds is a crock o shit. Lance was simply on a better program. And Froome, as well as most of the Skybots, are on a better program.

In my opinion:

1. Eddie Merckx - Because he wanted to win everything every time
2. Miguel Indurain - Resting heartbeat of 28bpm and lungs the size of two 45lbs plates/guy was a natural wonder and demolished everyone
3. Bernard Hinault - Never gave up, always on the attack, never surrendered



Indurain was chemically assisted as well. You don't go from a domestique to taking 4 minutes out of your nearest competitor without "help". He and the Banesto team worked with Dr. Conconi extensively- the same Dr. Conconi who blood doped Francesco Moser for his hour record:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-indurain-and-banesto-were-conconi-clients/

viking1

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2016, 01:29:47 PM »
Indurain was a monster. Amazing how much raw power that guy possessed. He was awful at descending but could power right back into his position on the flats. In time trials, he was very unorthodox in such a non-aero fit but could out ride the best. He killed the 96' Olympic time trial too.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2016, 01:30:25 PM »
All top 5 or 10 TDF cyclist were and are assisted.......It really amazes me that people think that such a 3 week performance with daily recovery is possible naturally.
I don't care though, I say just let them all use whatever they want. It's their lifes.
1000s of people kill themselves each day by going McDonalds for years. I am sure that even the most juiced up TDF cyclist are much, MUCH, healthier.
Plus even more healthy than our IFBB idols.  ::) ::)

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 01:32:40 PM »

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2016, 01:48:20 PM »
I wanna speak out for Lance, though. Juiced or not, he was the proverbial getbig-TDF cyclist. I respect him totally. He's being put down the last few years, but in time he will still be considered one of the greatest. Maybe THE greatest after Mercks. I will not say there will never be another Mercks, but it will be once in a century....

Moontrane

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2016, 03:37:17 PM »
Gotta take Lance out of the top three.  His non-Tour accomplishments were minor in comparison to others.

1 Merckx
2 Hinault
3 Fausto Coppi

Fausto Coppi won 2 TdF, five Giros, and 3 of the 5 monuments nine times.  He didn't race during WWII, depriving him of many wins.

Gino Bartali won two TdF and three Giros and missed out during WWII.  He also won 2 of the 5 monuments seven times.

Winning seven in a row, drugs or not, is amazing.  You have to be in the right position, master the descents, and avoid bad luck and illness - there are no drugs for this.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2016, 03:52:55 PM »
Coppi's been a while, but a good point. Maybe Aquetil too ?
Difficult to compare cyclists from the 60s and 50s to recent guys....

Seems like everyone seems to agree on Mercks, and most with Hinault......they were both killers, really.

Lots of terrific competitors behind them: Poulidor, Zoetemelk (finished the most tours ever, 1st in 1980), Bjarne Riis (king of EPO, won the tour with the highest hemoglobin count ever, amazing thing he survived), Wiggins (amazing win, well......), Lucien van Impe, 1976 I think  (only winner without being ever caught with doping) from his era....

Moontrane

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 04:07:06 PM »
I've read that Riis weighed150 for his Tour win in 1996.  At 6'1" that's a ridiculously low bodyfat, but going up a mountain is all power/weight.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 04:10:37 PM »
I've read that Riis weighed150 for his Tour win in 1996.  At 6'1" that's a ridiculously low bodyfat, but going up a mountain is all power/weight.
Riis is one of the few that admitted using EPD years after his win....though he was never caught. Admitted after the crime wore off, or how does one say this in English......of course..  ;D. expired ?

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2016, 04:57:16 PM »
Errrrr. No. Lance had advanced warning of tests, gave money to WADA and had a plane loaded with the most exotic performance-enhancing undetectable cocktails imaginable. To say that everyone was competing against him on equal grounds is a crock o shit. Lance was simply on a better program. And Froome, as well as most of the Skybots, are on a better program.

In my opinion:

1. Eddie Merckx - Because he wanted to win everything every time
2. Miguel Indurain - Resting heartbeat of 28bpm and lungs the size of two 45lbs plates/guy was a natural wonder and demolished everyone
3. Bernard Hinault - Never gave up, always on the attack, never surrendered



Just like in the Olympics, they all can be bought off...

Slapper

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2016, 05:30:09 PM »
Indurain was chemically assisted as well. You don't go from a domestique to taking 4 minutes out of your nearest competitor without "help". He and the Banesto team worked with Dr. Conconi extensively- the same Dr. Conconi who blood doped Francesco Moser for his hour record:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-indurain-and-banesto-were-conconi-clients/

At that time everyone in the TdF was doing something, although Indurain was a beast. The only guy able to beat him was Riis, and we all know what he had to do to beat him: Get his hematocrit level up to 60%. Bjarne played with death that year. Rumor has it, the night before the Hautacam stage, he was seen riding the stationary bike in the middle of the night because he was scared of going to sleep and not waking up (he was afraid he was going to go on cardiac arrest due to the thickness of his blood). That year, 1996, doping at the TdF took a huge leap. Same with the Armstrong era. Same with Froome.

Sky have riders who are well above 180lbs dropping well-known climbers in some of the climbs. Froome himself has posted climbing times that resemble those posted by known dopers. Yet, he keeps yapping away that he is clean. 

WalterWhite

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2016, 05:51:24 PM »
Lance was essentially handed a death sentence with metastatic testicular cancer. It spread to his stomach, lungs and brain and he had slim chance of survival. In 1997 he was given the all clear and in 99 he won the Tour.

I don't care what he took the guy was a stud.  Should have just stayed retired and never come back.

Hypertrophy

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2016, 07:27:54 PM »
At that time everyone in the TdF was doing something, although Indurain was a beast. The only guy able to beat him was Riis, and we all know what he had to do to beat him: Get his hematocrit level up to 60%. Bjarne played with death that year. Rumor has it, the night before the Hautacam stage, he was seen riding the stationary bike in the middle of the night because he was scared of going to sleep and not waking up (he was afraid he was going to go on cardiac arrest due to the thickness of his blood). That year, 1996, doping at the TdF took a huge leap. Same with the Armstrong era. Same with Froome.

Sky have riders who are well above 180lbs dropping well-known climbers in some of the climbs. Froome himself has posted climbing times that resemble those posted by known dopers. Yet, he keeps yapping away that he is clean. 

I'm still of the mind that Sky is clean till proven otherwise.

I'm friends with one of Lance's former teammates. He outlined everything they took and told me the recovery was miraculous each day. He also said Lance took far less than anyone else- he was that much of a natural talent. They started running gear when they saw guys they were dropping the previous year suddenly leave them in the dust. It was either use or quit the sport. I can see their point. I once raced against a guy who was taking amphetamines- one race he was average and the next no one could hold his wheel.

As for US Postal being the most advanced drug program- not by a long shot. Telekom had a program designed and administered by a team of doctors. Same with Manolo Saiz and Once. My friend Steve Bauer was offered a contract by them but changed his mind after seeing the "medical" program you were expected to go on.

Moontrane

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2016, 08:03:05 PM »
All top 5 or 10 TDF cyclist were and are assisted.......It really amazes me that people think that such a 3 week performance with daily recovery is possible naturally.
I don't care though, I say just let them all use whatever they want. It's their lifes.
1000s of people kill themselves each day by going McDonalds for years. I am sure that even the most juiced up TDF cyclist are much, MUCH, healthier.
Plus even more healthy than our IFBB idols.  ::) ::)

I was sad to see Bauke Mollema (coolest name since Fabian Cancellara) drop from 2nd to 10th.  He'll be riding with Contador next year.

Hulkotron

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2016, 08:14:46 PM »
Big Tex Lance Armstrong is definitely in the conversation for best TDF rider ever regardless of PED.

lol @ the argument that his teams had better and undetectable drugs and that's why he won :D

I don't follow cycling closely but I believe among those who do, Lance is not considered the greatest ever because he pretty much only did the TDF and never won the other tours or any of the major day races.  During his winning years I don't think he even raced in either of the other grand tours (may have earlier in his career).

Mayday

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2016, 08:38:13 PM »
Errrrr. No. Lance had advanced warning of tests, gave money to WADA and had a plane loaded with the most exotic performance-enhancing undetectable cocktails imaginable. To say that everyone was competing against him on equal grounds is a crock o shit. Lance was simply on a better program. And Froome, as well as most of the Skybots, are on a better program.

Lance had a political advantage and a timing advantage re testing sure, however they used the same Doctors and same programs, same drugs. In doping rings it's been talked to death. Make no mistake everything was available to everybody, Lance wasn't on some mystical drug, Lance just did everything better and had an unbeatable formula at that time. Plenty of transfusion stories even from low down riders during that era, so even your pack fodder riders were transfusing blood just like the top dogs.

Ullrich was asked could there have been anything more he could have done and he flatly answered no. I didn't everything and anything that i could have done (in reference to drug programs). One of Ullrich's biggest problems was weight gain. He would drop up to 7kg a few weeks out from the TDF which is not a positive thing. Whether or not it's true it was always said that Ullrich had more talent than Lance but offseason he fucked around a lot and that's why he never won.