Do Black Lives Really Matter to Democrats?

[Al Doggity]

seems like you want to complain about the status quo while claiming that's "how it works". not computing.

I said that blacks are American voters and, whether you like it or not, our votes count in the democratic process. How was that complaining about the status quo?

nobody finds hillary "compelling" she's terrible and you know it. lol. policy matters and you know that too! of course TA's analysis is ridiculous but there's no dispute the black folks chose the wrong person. If bernie sat at home and drank beer all day it wouldn't change a thing. it's the wrong person, wrong button pushed for no good reason.

She got more voters behind her. You're entitled to your opinion, but other's choices don't have to conform to your opinions.

[The True Adonis]

seems like you want to complain about the status quo while claiming that's "how it works". not computing.

nobody finds hillary "compelling" she's terrible and you know it. lol. policy matters and you know that too! of course TA's analysis is ridiculous but there's no dispute the black folks chose the wrong person. If bernie sat at home and drank beer all day it wouldn't change a thing. it's the wrong person, wrong button pushed for no good reason.

I think you know what I am writing is the truth.  At least you know and realize that there is something wrong with the entire culture.  Its a shame, because good people like you are expected to fall in line and bury your head in the sand if you call out the bullshit.  Even when you do, (like you are now) other members of da camoonity shun you and pretend you are wrong despite the facts being on your side.  Sad!

[Al Doggity]

I think you know what I am writing is the truth.  At least you know and realize that there is something wrong with the entire culture.  Its a shame, because good people like you are expected to fall in line and bury your head in the sand if you call out the bullshit.  Even when you do, (like you are now) other members of da camoonity shun you and pretend you are wrong despite the facts being on your side.  Sad!

You know nothing of facts. You screech and whine and complain and throw hissyfits based on the intensity of your menstrual cycle.

[mr.turbo]

I think you know what I am writing is the truth.  At least you know and realize that there is something wrong with the entire culture.  Its a shame, because good people like you are expected to fall in line and bury your head in the sand if you call out the bullshit.  Even when you do, (like you are now) other members of da camoonity shun you and pretend you are wrong despite the facts being on your side.  Sad!

I simply take your remarks in light of your effort to derail the trump campaign from within

so I can neither confirm nor deny any of the above

I would advise you to do the same!

 

[mr.turbo]

I said that blacks are American voters and, whether you like it or not, our votes count in the democratic process. How was that complaining about the status quo?


She got more voters behind her. You're entitled to your opinion, but other's choices don't have to conform to your opinions.

it's not a democratic vote if it's placed in someone else's interest, (voting for clinton) this is what you described as "the way it works" then you made some remarks about black votes not mattering that's what I understand as a complaint. Is there something wrong with the system or not?

really these are two issues, one is a short term tactical matter then other addresses long term real change. political change actually occurs outside of election campaigns.

since you support(ed) bernie the only way this can make sense is if you were wrong about that. others choices don't have to conform to your opinion either, I 'm glad we agree on this!  

[TuHolmes]

Let's modify the question a bit.

What can Republicans do to reach out to the black community to show that they have their wellbeing in mind as well as everyone else's?

How do the "conservative" (I use that loosely across the board) political parties pull them over?

Is it even possible? Forget the statements of "Blacks are stupid and vote against themselves" or whatever else, but how do you convince large numbers... maybe majority, but at least a large group to come to them?

What needs to happen?

[The True Adonis]

[Al Doggity]

it's not a democratic vote if it's placed in someone else's interest, (voting for clinton) this is what you described as "the way it works" then you made some remarks about black votes not mattering that's what I understand as a complaint. Is there something wrong with the system or not?

You clearly misunderstood that post,then. The remark about black votes not mattering was a reference to the title of the thread and the idea that only white votes and white interests matter when analyzing election results. In other words, it was sarcasm. Like I said in the line immediately following that, the race was a statistical dead heat among white voters. The idea that us dumb ol' blacks ruined democracy for all the nice white folk is ridiculous.

since you support(ed) bernie the only way this can make sense is if you were wrong about that. others choices don't have to conform to your opinion either, I 'm glad we agree on this!  

No, because I'm not on here claiming that people who voted for Hillary made a subjectively wrong choice. Or, even more inanely, that I'm taking my ball and switching parties because my candidate didn't win. The difference with me is that I saw the flaws in Sanders' campaign in real time and was completely unsurprised by the result. While I was a Bernie supporter, I was not a Bernie fanatic. I understood why the numbers for Trump vs Hillary and Trump vs Sanders were what they were.

[K-1]

22 minute listen, or read the text.

http://newstalk1130.iheart.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/do-black-lives-really-matter-to-14957499/

Black lives matter.  We hear it all the time from the Democratic Party, so much so that it even made the themes of the Black Lives Matter movement a key component of its official party platform:  

Democrats will fight to end institutional and systemic racism in our society. We will challenge and dismantle the structures that define lasting racial, economic, political, and social inequity. Democrats will promote racial justice through fair, just, and equitable governing of all public-serving institutions and in the formation of public policy. Democrats support removing the Confederate battle flag from public properties, recognizing that it is a symbol of our nation's racist past that has no place in our present or our future. We will push for a societal transformation to make it clear that black lives matter and that there is no place for racism in our country.

But do black lives really matter to Democrats? And have Democrats really been fighting to end institutional and systemic racism in society?

Or have they merely used the Black Lives Matter movement to provide them with cover after decades of utterly failing the black lives that they have governed almost without interruption for more than a half century?

Read more: http://newstalk1130.iheart.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/do-black-lives-really-matter-to-14957499/#ixzz4Fpvy8f1j

To answer the question...no.

Don't get me started on them because I got no brakes.

[Thin Lizzy]

Let's modify the question a bit.

What can Republicans do to reach out to the black community to show that they have their wellbeing in mind as well as everyone else's?

How do the "conservative" (I use that loosely across the board) political parties pull them over?

Is it even possible? Forget the statements of "Blacks are stupid and vote against themselves" or whatever else, but how do you convince large numbers... maybe majority, but at least a large group to come to them?

What needs to happen?

The few blacks who have crossed over, like Thomas Sowell and Herman Cain, did so on their own accord. Their experiences led them to do so.

I don't see large numbers switching sides as too many depend on government in one form or another, work or benefits.

As the expression goes, "You gotta know when to hold, when to fold." For the Republican Party, blacks are a "fold."

[mr.turbo]

You clearly misunderstood that post,then. The remark about black votes not mattering was a reference to the title of the thread and the idea that only white votes and white interests matter when analyzing election results. In other words, it was sarcasm. Like I said in the line immediately following that, the race was a statistical dead heat among white voters. The idea that us dumb ol' blacks ruined democracy for all the nice white folk is ridiculous.



No, because I'm not on here claiming that people who voted for Hillary made a subjectively wrong choice. Or, even more inanely, that I'm taking my ball and switching parties because my candidate didn't win. The difference with me is that I saw the flaws in Sanders' campaign in real time and was completely unsurprised by the result. While I was a Bernie supporter, I was not a Bernie fanatic. I understood why the numbers for Trump vs Hillary and Trump vs Sanders were what they were.

"subjectively"; lol...look let's not get carried away with our apologism. bad things happen. mistakes happen. we'll all be better off accepting the facts objectively, analysing and making the corrections. no need for a bunch of intellectual gymnastics. bernie has a lot of work to do, so do some other people, who we won't mention publicly, for fear of giving away any secrets!

[TuHolmes]

The few blacks who have crossed over, like Thomas Sowell and Herman Cain, did so on their own accord. Their experiences led them to do so.

I don't see large numbers switching sides as too many depend on government in one form or another, work or benefits.

As the expression goes, "You gotta know when to hold, when to fold." For the Republican Party, blacks are a "fold."

Does it impact the election much if they continue to fold? How did the Republicans lose the Latino vote? (Have they lost it? It "sounds" it, but maybe that's just the media.)

What does it take for the Republicans to win the Presidency? Obviously they do well in Congress.

[Al Doggity]

"subjectively"; lol...look let's not get carried away with our apologism. bad things happen. mistakes happen. we'll all be better off accepting the facts objectively, analysing and making the corrections. no need for a bunch of intellectual gymnastics. bernie has a lot of work to do, so do some other people, who we won't mention publicly, for fear of giving away any secrets!

How can "we" be getting carried away with "our apologism" when I'm commenting specifically on things you and True Adonis have said? An opinion is not a fact. No matter how strongly you may want to believe in it, that doesn't make it so.

[mr.turbo]

How can "we" be getting carried away with "our apologism" when I'm commenting specifically on things you and True Adonis have said? An opinion is not a fact. No matter how strongly you may want to believe in it, that doesn't make it so.

feel free to own this then, you're more than welcome to.

this is not subjective, simply put either you are wrong or everyone else is. you can't have both!!!

once again, since we actually agree that bernie was the right choice we are both correct.

I hope you know you can't win an argument against someone you agree with, despite your best efforts!

[The Ugly]

Let's modify the question a bit.

What can Republicans do to reach out to the black community to show that they have their wellbeing in mind as well as everyone else's?

How do the "conservative" (I use that loosely across the board) political parties pull them over?

Is it even possible? Forget the statements of "Blacks are stupid and vote against themselves" or whatever else, but how do you convince large numbers... maybe majority, but at least a large group to come to them?

What needs to happen?

Because "THEIR wellbeing" is different than any other American's?

[TuHolmes]

Because "THEIR wellbeing" is different than any other American's?

There is a belief within the black community that they are not one and the same. How do they convince the black community that they are aligned?

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that any politician has the best interest of the general US citizen in mind when they enact laws or create policies?

[Thin Lizzy]

Does it impact the election much if they continue to fold? How did the Republicans lose the Latino vote? (Have they lost it? It "sounds" it, but maybe that's just the media.)

What does it take for the Republicans to win the Presidency? Obviously they do well in Congress.

Basically, they have to win the Battleground states, or at least two out of three: Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania usually decide the election. Most of the other states are a foregone conclusion one way or the other. I think Trump has a good chance in all three. He's from NY which is next door to PA. He did very well there in the Primary. He has businesses in Florida and beat Rubio there. Plus, his running mate is a Midwestern Governor who should help in Ohio. Kasich "should" help in Ohio, as well, but I don't trust that guy.

[The Ugly]

There is a belief within the black community that they are not one and the same. How do they convince the black community that they are aligned?

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that any politician has the best interest of the general US citizen in mind when they enact laws or create policies?

1) They don't. NO American is excluded from an "Americans" reference, irrational "beliefs" are irrelevant. They buy into it or they don't. But I don't care about Republican strategy.

2) Some do, sure. Here and there. Our two presidential candidates? FUCK to the NO.

(Sorry for the hostility.)

[TuHolmes]

1) They don't. NO American is excluded from an "Americans" reference, irrational "beliefs" are irrelevant; they buy into it or they don't. (Also, fuck groupthink and fuck Republicans.)

2) Some do, sure. Here and there. Our two presidential candidates? FUCK to the NO.

1. They aren't irrelevant though. Perception is reality. I'm not saying their perception is ACCURATE, but I do say it is the way it is. If they don't buy into it, then nothing changes. Things stay exactly the same, so you have to convince them that the status quo that they continue to buy into is a fallacy. You have to show them why. (Not you, you, general you)

2. What do you believe the percentage of politicians that truly have the best interest of the US citizen, is?

[Al Doggity]

1) They don't. NO American is excluded from an "Americans" reference, irrational "beliefs" are irrelevant. They buy into it or they don't. But I don't care about Republican strategy.

2) Some do, sure. Here and there. Our two presidential candidates? FUCK to the NO.

(Sorry for the hostility.)

Serious question: Pretend there was a candidate who spent most of their campaign speaking to black communities, telling them how  his or her policies would improve the lives of blacks. A large number of blacks ended up supporting that candidate. Do you think most white people would assume that candidate's policies would improve their lives just as much the black people?

[The Ugly]

1. They aren't irrelevant though. Perception is reality. I'm not saying their perception is ACCURATE, but I do say it is the way it is. If they don't buy into it, then nothing changes. Things stay exactly the same, so you have to convince them that the status quo that they continue to buy into is a fallacy. You have to show them why. (Not you, you, general you)

2. What do you believe the percentage of politicians that truly have the best interest of the US citizen, is?

1) No, reality is reality. Perception is subjective, and some folks simply aren't rational. "OJ was framed," "Hands up, don't shoot" for reference. Lunatics don't run the asylum, Tu. But I couldn't care less how Rs SHOULD pander to this idiocy, so I got nothing.

2) Less than 20, maybe 10. And most probably don't win elections. And those who do probably can't get much done.  

[Al Doggity]

feel free to own this then, you're more than welcome to.

this is not subjective, simply put either you are wrong or everyone else is. you can't have both!!!

once again, since we actually agree that bernie was the right choice we are both correct.

I hope you know you can't win an argument against someone you agree with, despite your best efforts!

Then I guess it's a good thing that there were actually several points we disagreed on in this thread.

[The Ugly]

Serious question: Pretend there was a candidate who spent most of their campaign speaking to black communities, telling them how  his or her policies would improve the lives of blacks. A large number of blacks ended up supporting that candidate. Do you think most white people would assume that candidate's policies would improve their lives just as much the black people?

No.

Sorry.

[Al Doggity]

No.

Sorry.

Really? Are you sure?  You're telling me that if one group gets an advantage, then  others don't automatically feel they are getting the same advantage. Seem like sort of an irrational belief, doesn't it?[/sarcasm]

[The Ugly]

Really? Are you sure?   You're telling me that if one group gets an advantage, then  others don't automatically feel they are getting the same advantage. Seem like sort of an irrational belief, doesn't it?[/sarcasm]

It's a silly, loaded question, and you know it. Any candidate/policy "a large number of blacks" support is gonna rape the fuck outta taxpayers. Which is where you lose (rational, fiscally conservative) whites.

This surprises you?