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Author Topic: PWO Nutrition after weights/cardio....  (Read 5334 times)
GMCtrk
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2006, 06:47:20 PM »

Cheap and easy to mix... why not use table sugar?? That's half glucose, you could just use twice as much? Couldn't you?


The Luke

how are you a moderator on here? And why are you trying to dig yourself out of the hole you made. Just admit you were wrong and go on with it.
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GMCtrk
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2006, 06:54:33 PM »

Keep it SIMPLE and STUPID everyone...

 After cardio? Go w/ a serving of BCAA's/Glutamine. When you get home from the gym(if you do your cardio at the gym like me) which lets say is a 10 minute drive...go w/ a whey shake mixed in water about 40-50grams of whey...and a couple packets of low-sugar flavored oatmeal.

 If you're competing...1 cup of regular oatmeal w/ a little spenda and cinnamon.

  Take a multi-vitamin and carry on.

 After weights? Same thing basically...50grams of whey...little glutamine, 3 grams of creatine, 2 packets of low-sugar oatmeal. Keep it simple!

You would be better served to use dextrose or maltodextrin post-workout over oatmeal. The dextrose will be very fast acting which is what you want, a fast insulin response. Oatmeal will take a while to digest and wont give that fast insulin response, and when it does, the whey will already have gone through your system.

Plus, how thick is that shake with oatmeal in it?
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The Luke
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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2006, 05:07:59 AM »

I had no idea this practice of consuming glucose post workout was so entrenched, or that it's adherents were so intransigent and close-minded. Perhaps I should start a thread detailing my training routine... 40 mins once a week would definately kill a few other sacred cows round here. Might be good for a little controversy maybe?

Anyway, back to the issue at hand... if everyone could keep an open mind long enough to consider it, I'll gladly explain my reasoning:

If you've been around bodybuilding since the eighties you might well remember the original crash weight gain formulas that companies like Weider used to push through their magazines. First it was MegaMass 1000, then MegaMass 2000, and last I heard MegaMass 4000 was the best option for hardgainers looking to bulk up. One thing all these products (weight gainers, meal replacements, postworkout drinks etc) had in common was maltodextrin.
Also known as hydrolized corn starch; modified corn starch; short-chain glucose polymers; catalysed corn starch; low fructose corn syrup; corn starch... etc etc.... maltodextrin is the holy grail of food science: a highly adaptable, alterable, tasteless carbohydrate with a the ability to mimic the "mouth feel" of dietary fat.... and a massive percentage profit mark up.

Maltodextrin is now in everything; yogurts, chocolate, dairy spreads, etc... not to mention all the products in which it acts as a bulking/thickening agent; from low-fat mayonaisse to sports supplements.

The problem?

Simply put; maltodextrin is bad for you. It's a short chain glucose/maltose polymer that is absorbed into the blood stream even faster than pure glucose... having a glycemic index of 105... and faster than anything evolution prepared your body chemistry to handle. But surely bodybuilders want the fastest acting carbohydrate possible after a workout.... why not use glucose or maltodextrin??

Well this is where things get interesting.

We know that diets rich in highly processed saccharides (glucose GI = 100, sucrose GI = 65, maltose GI = 102ish, fructose GI = 23) lead to a whole host of health problems related to damage/impairment of the glucose/insulin senstivity system: namely obesity, adult onset diabetes, and apparently the awkward to diagnose "syndrome X" (a pre-diabetic disorder related to unstabe blood sugar levels and bowel disorders).

We also know that the exponential growth of these diseases is related to the change in Western diet over the last few decades. Americans, for example, now eat less fat than they ever have... but more sugar and processed carbohydrate than ever... and we all know what has happened to the average American waistline.

It seems that constantly eating carb staples with GI ratings in the high (70+) range damages (overloads) the insulin/glucose system leading to a skewing of the balance towards hyper or hypo insulinemic states... something, that for some reason bodybuilders believe themselves to be immune to. Granted regular exercise (especially weight training) does improve insulin/glucose sensitivity, but consuming 100+ grams of pure glucose regularly (3 to 5 times a week), in a solution that contains no solid protein or fat to slow digestion will directly and unnecessarily stress the system maintaining blood sugar.

For health and longevity, eating a diet with carb staples that have GI ratings in the low to mid-range (GI's of 60 and lower) and making sure to include solid proteins and fats at every (small, regular) meal to blunt the GI even further improves glucose/insulin sensitivity by maintaining low, even blood sugar levels.

Post workout, a carb in the GI 70ish range will take full advantage of the heightened carb storage capacity, without overly stressing the system.


I understand and appreciate that bodybuilders have a "more is better attitude" towards nutrition, and I recognise the wisdom of eating a high GI carb postworkout, it's something I do myself.

However having said that... a high GI carb doesn't mean excessive quantities of the highest GI carb known to man, no more than a high protein diet means kilos and kilos of branch chain amino acids.

The Luke   
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GET_BIGGER
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« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2006, 10:00:34 AM »

lol.....I remember MegaMass2000.  I got fat on it....   Undecided

Geez.....that was back in the day.  I feel old....
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The Luke
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« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2006, 10:46:23 AM »

You weren't the only one GET_BIGGER, it was the most common side effect... hence, for legal reasons they had to be termed "mass builders" or "weight gainers", and not muscle builders.

The wording of those ads was very informative, if you knew what to look for.


The Luke
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GMCtrk
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« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2006, 12:07:52 PM »

lol.....I remember MegaMass2000.  I got fat on it....   Undecided

Geez.....that was back in the day.  I feel old....

hmm, I wonder why you got fat. It's not rocket science. Why do you think I use Cytogainer? It's basically one of the only weight gainers out there that doesn't use dextrose as the carb source. Instead it uses complex carbs.

There is a massive difference between using dextrose post-workout, and using dextrose in a weight gainer.
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The Luke
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« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2006, 01:43:01 PM »

As a matter of interest GMCtrk, which complex carb is used in Cytogainer?

The Luke
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GET_BIGGER
Getbig IV
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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2006, 01:49:29 PM »

hmm, I wonder why you got fat. It's not rocket science. Why do you think I use Cytogainer? It's basically one of the only weight gainers out there that doesn't use dextrose as the carb source. Instead it uses complex carbs.

There is a massive difference between using dextrose post-workout, and using dextrose in a weight gainer.

I was like 15 when I took the s**t, I barely knew anything about lifting weights let alone something called maltodextrin.....WTF did you know at 15?
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The Luke
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« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2006, 02:09:56 PM »

Hey GETBIGGER,

Don't ruin the surprise... I deleted one of GMCtrk's more aggressive posts and sent him a pm letting him know why. Seems I shouldn't have bothered, he's just outed himself as an armchair expert with this comment:

It's not rocket science. Why do you think I use Cytogainer? It's basically one of the only weight gainers out there that doesn't use dextrose as the carb source. Instead it uses complex carbs.

There is a massive difference between using dextrose post-workout, and using dextrose in a weight gainer.

...he doesn't yet know the "complex carb" in Cytogainer is... wait for it.... maltodextrin. Makes you wonder about the "massive difference between using dextrose post-workout, and using dextrose in a weight gainer"... perhaps its psychosomatic??

Let's leave him to his smarter than thou posturing... afterall, he doesn't know he doesn't know.

The Luke
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GMCtrk
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« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2006, 07:53:04 PM »

Ok, so am I wrong that cytogainer does not contain "complex carbs", but is that my fault, or the fault of the labelling on the product? At least I can admit my mistakes as well.

As well, please try and stay on subject. The fact of the matter is dextrose is the ideal post-workout additive with your whey (and creatine). End of story.
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