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Author Topic: leg press for hamstrings  (Read 3092 times)
ratherbebig
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« on: December 30, 2016, 03:00:02 PM »

what are you thoughts/experience of doing leg presses for hamstrings? (feet high on plate etc)

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jpm101
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2017, 12:02:54 PM »

The wider foot spacing the more the hams are affected; leg presses, squats, DL's, machines, etc.

Can't get a complete ham workout with only the above mentioned exercises, but it can help.. If you want to insure that the hams have relative strength and development to match the quads and lower back, than might suggest  a combo of stretches and actually ham curls.

GoodMorning's, Romanian DL's, Stiff legged DL (actually a slight knee break/bend) are pretty much the standard with weight added stretches (can also use a DB with these). Might suggest the Romanian version as first choice, which pretty much insures that the back will remain flat/straight, without any dangerous rounded position. . Another stretching version is to place the toes on a 2X4 (or BB plate, book, etc) for a strong stretch to the hams and and even the calves. Would suggest a lighter weight when doing this version for a higher rep range.

Leg curls, either lying, sitting or standing.  One leg at a time can offer better focus on the exercise. Manuel resistance exercise are also a great exercise method..

Good Luck.
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 05:49:46 AM »

Our gym has just got one of those iso plate loaded leg presses, where it pushes thrrough an arc... Its ldeal gor this, chuck them in every other week

Lying leg curls are my mainstay, straight leg deadlifts with dumbells, toes standing on small plates or the above leg presses round my hamstrings off
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Erik C
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 10:05:49 AM »

what are you thoughts/experience of doing leg presses for hamstrings? (feet high on plate etc)

MRI studies show that hamstrings do not work at all, on leg presses with feet high on the plate.
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ratherbebig
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 03:09:02 PM »

MRI studies show that hamstrings do not work at all, on leg presses with feet high on the plate.

really thats interesting. ive seen mri studies for biceps and some other muscle groups but not for legs
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Erik C
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 03:13:49 PM »

MUSCLE MEETS MAGNET by Dr. Per A. Tesch, page 58. Book was published 1993.

Takes awhile to trickle down to Broscience levels. As in, when everyone who is doing it wrong, getting zero results, and recommending it to others, dies.
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jpm101
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 09:40:59 AM »

Familiar with MRI's. They can be misleading if the whole reading is not taken into account.. Even personal experiences with certain exercise should prove that.

Any form of squats, leg presses, lunges, etc would be very, very hard to accomplish with out the inclusion of the ham strings (even calf's).

Like bicep curls would be very hard to do without the inclusion of the triceps (even the delts). The human body is a complex system of leverage and counter balance mechanics.  The body works as a whole unit in any muscle motion area. If a muscle numbing agent was injected into the tricep (three headed) it would be extremely hard to preform a simple full bicep curl, for example.

Good Luck.
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Erik C
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 11:14:38 AM »

Familiar with MRI's. They can be misleading if the whole reading is not taken into account.. Even personal experiences with certain exercise should prove that.

Any form of squats, leg presses, lunges, etc would be very, very hard to accomplish with out the inclusion of the ham strings (even calf's).

Like bicep curls would be very hard to do without the inclusion of the triceps (even the delts). The human body is a complex system of leverage and counter balance mechanics.  The body works as a whole unit in any muscle motion area. If a muscle numbing agent was injected into the tricep (three headed) it would be extremely hard to preform a simple full bicep curl, for example.

Good Luck.

Did I say Broscience? Wow!

You know nothing about MRI machine, nor muscle mechanics.

Triceps do not work when you are doing curls. MRI studies prove that. Triceps and Biceps are antagonistic muscles. When one works, the other must relax, or nothing moves.

Moreover, hamstrings do not work doing Lunges and free weight Squats. MRI studies again. Because Hamstrings and Quads are antagonistic muscles, so when one works, the other doesn't, or nothing moves, as they'd be fighting each other.

I'm sure jpm101 will never be convinced how dead wrong he is. For others, don't listen to the Broscience, go with the real Science. MRI machines have no reason to lie.



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jpm101
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 12:06:18 PM »

Eric C..

Keeping this as simple as I can.

The bicep and tricep are a working pair, one could not complete a function without the other. In a simple curl the bicep is the agonist muscle (contracting primary muscle). The tricep is the antagonist muscle ( a secondary mover, helping to curl through by a lengthening or stretch of the tricep) At no time, during the curl is the tricep "relaxing" but always in a state of responce or action.  

This is functional muscle contraction, or motion, in joint harmony with each other (bicep.tricep). Might try a light one arm DB curl and with the other free hand feel the back of the tricep. You will find that it is acting and engaged in stretching during the bicep contraction.  As I said before, if applying a muscle numbing agent to the triceps, than the bicep would not be able to curl at all.

Same idea is applied to the ham strings and squat, leg press, lunges and even sitting leg extensions. It's that agonist (primary) and antagonist (secondary mover) again. Muscles work in a functional unit, coordinating with on another. No musce is relaxed at any duration.

MRI's have a place. But you must consider the whole of any reading/printout before making any final conclusion. All four angles, and than some, must be taken in to get the whole of the matter of biceps acting alone.. And that takes a good amount of experience.

Good Luck.
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Erik C
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2017, 12:51:55 PM »

Eric C..
Keeping this as simple as I can.

SIMPLY WRONG!

If you are contracting a flexor muscle, as in a biceps curl, then why would you want to contract an extensor muscle, as in triceps, to resist the biceps movement? That's ridiculous.

In doesn't matter what you believe. The fact is, your description of muscle usage is nonsense.

Dr. Per A. Tesch, 30 years ago, using MRI machines, proved that what you posted is wrong.

Initially his work was questioned. Yet, when other scientists repeated his work, they got the same results that he did. Repeatable results is the basis of real science. If his work was in error, then in the last 30 years, someone would have called Bull Shit on it, and proved that he was wrong. Didn't happen.

Welcome to the modern world!
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jpm101
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 02:16:42 PM »

Eric C

Might suggest reading "Human Anatomy For Dummies". But you will probably disagree with that also. Sports medicine training manual might also help.
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Erik C
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 03:26:47 PM »

Eric C

Might suggest reading "Human Anatomy For Dummies". But you will probably disagree with that also. Sports medicine training manual might also help.

You didn't answer the question of why one would want your extensor muscles, the triceps, contracting, and giving resistance, when you are trying to curl, in the other direction, with your flexor muscles, the biceps, contracting? Fortunately, your arm muscles don't work the way that you  believe, and described.

The world of physiology knowledge, has passed beyond your level of old broscience "knowledge."

To quote Dr. Leonard J.Ravitz, about the unacceptability of new scientific truths:

"Any basic discovery which sheds new light on the true nature of human beings is obviously of the highest medical, psychologic, and philosophic importance and in theory, such a discovery should be hailed with enthusiasm by all concerned. In practice, however, it is likely to encounter indifference or opposition from entrenched or prejudiced professionals. That is why, historically, it has taken about forty years for the new ideas to be accepted in the medical world.

This was realized by no less a scientist than Max Planck, who once observed:

'A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.' "

Sadly, it seems Dr. Tesch's work has about another ten years to go, before the pros start paying attention. Though it is here right now, for those who have the intelligence to see its importance, to use right now.

No luck necessary, when you have real knowledge.

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ratherbebig
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2017, 03:59:58 PM »

tech didnt put out a book on all muscle groups did he? has someone else continued his work and put out studies on chest, back etc
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Erik C
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2017, 04:28:51 PM »

tech didnt put out a book on all muscle groups did he? has someone else continued his work and put out studies on chest, back etc

No, and it's Tesch.

His books are arms and legs only. Even though his work was proven correct, he couldn't get a publisher for the popular market book, so he published it himself. Must have been frustrating for him. So he didn't pursue it in the popular media after that. He has stuck to research, operating out of the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, getting numerous grants for doing research for Olympic and Professional Sports, for the military in both Europe and the USA, the European Space Agency and NASA, including designing and supplying the exercise equipment for the International Space Station (ISS) to stop muscle and bone loss in micro gravity, and publishing hundreds of scientific papers in peer reviewed professional journals.
He's been very busy!

You tend to go where you are appreciated. The meatheads, in bodybuilding, etc.,
basically ignored his work. He couldn't make a buck there, as they erroneously believed that they knew better than him, as with 101 here.

Others have done more work with MRI, but not necessarily in regards to bodybuilding and exercise. Although Dr. Tesch worked for military, and other government agencies, that work isn't available to the general public. The "people" are always the last to know the real facts.
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jpm101
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2017, 06:48:40 PM »

Eric C

Believe Amazon'com is having a special sell on "Human Anatomy For Dummies" but you might want to hurry, the sell ends Monday.

A tricep is extending (stretching) as a bicep is contracting in curling. And as that bicep lowers to the starting position, it is extending (stretching) as the tricep is contracting....hope this helps you.

Good Luck
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2017, 07:10:52 PM »

We can keep this thread civil
Thanks so much
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ratherbebig
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2017, 02:04:57 AM »

not sure what's being debated here

suppose i pick 2 exercises for biceps - bicepscurl with a barbell and bicepscurl with a dumbbell. and MRI shows that using a barbell activiates biceps more than using a dumbbell, would it then not be wise for me to pick barbell rather than dumbbell in my future training?

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Erik C
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 09:57:19 AM »

What's being debated, is how the muscles work. I think it is important that Dr. Tesch's MRI studies actually show when you do different curling exercises, that they work different muscles on the front of your arm differently, as in when the Lateral head of the biceps is working the hardest, or when it is being used as a stabilizer muscle. Same for the Medial head, and the Brachialis. And the MRI shows that during curls, the triceps aren't contracting (not working) at all.
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