Author Topic: Starting TRT  (Read 10583 times)

Pneumothorax

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Starting TRT
« on: January 14, 2017, 02:00:54 AM »
So starting TRT, mid 30s.  Test has gone from 300 when I tested in 2012 and primary care doc told me don't worry about it, to 215 and 235 in the last month.  Free test is consistently in the 80s.  So I started at a male wellness clinic and the Doc there started me on Test cyp 130 every week and HCG 250 units 1 time a week, but I have to try to bill insurance myself and I have to come in weekly until we get the dosage correct and then maybe do an implant.  New primary doc is offering test cyp 200mg bi weekly, but seems like he's pretty ignorant about TRT, like when I asked what test level he is shooting for he said "Well anything as long as it's in the normal range".  Primary doc also doesn't offer any HCG, haven't asked about anti estrogen but I'm assuming he would probably not give that either. 

I guess my main thing at this point is the cost, I have to try to bill insurance myself for the male wellness clinic or pay $35-50 per week for the test shot and $9 for the HCG.  Primary doc may be able to bill for me but the staff is retarded and doesn't know if it's covered until they try to bill. 

My question, is the HCG shot really necessary or beneficial? Is being able to get an anti estrogen prescribed worth it or are they easy enough to get black market if my primary Doc won't give it?

equipoise

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 06:24:26 AM »
So starting TRT, mid 30s.  Test has gone from 300 when I tested in 2012 and primary care doc told me don't worry about it, to 215 and 235 in the last month.  Free test is consistently in the 80s.  So I started at a male wellness clinic and the Doc there started me on Test cyp 130 every week and HCG 250 units 1 time a week, but I have to try to bill insurance myself and I have to come in weekly until we get the dosage correct and then maybe do an implant.  New primary doc is offering test cyp 200mg bi weekly, but seems like he's pretty ignorant about TRT, like when I asked what test level he is shooting for he said "Well anything as long as it's in the normal range".  Primary doc also doesn't offer any HCG, haven't asked about anti estrogen but I'm assuming he would probably not give that either.  

I guess my main thing at this point is the cost, I have to try to bill insurance myself for the male wellness clinic or pay $35-50 per week for the test shot and $9 for the HCG.  Primary doc may be able to bill for me but the staff is retarded and doesn't know if it's covered until they try to bill.  


My question, is the HCG shot really necessary or beneficial? Is being able to get an anti estrogen prescribed worth it or are they easy enough to get black market if my primary Doc won't give it?

If cash is short you can skip the HCG for a while, not gonna die, but generally I feel a lot better with HCG, read a few articles about how the testes produce other hormones other than test that are good for health.

You can buy generic AI from tons of online sites, a lot of pharmacies in the world like turkey india etc. they sell this stuff OTC, PM me and I can give info if you need

Pneumothorax

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 03:32:31 AM »
Thanks for the advice.  I'm thinking I'm going to stick with the male wellness clinic for now and see what happens.  I do like the HCG shot, I've gotten it twice now and it really does improve my mood and motivation.

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 07:35:38 PM »
Vial of 10 cc test without insurance is 85 bucks
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StackedDec

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 08:31:46 PM »
Worm you mean 25 bucks lol
 
Seriously though last sale I got 3 vials for 21 each plus shipping, it was 85 for 3 10ml vials of 250mg/ml enanth

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 05:05:51 AM »
Worm you mean 25 bucks lol
 
Seriously though last sale I got 3 vials for 21 each plus shipping, it was 85 for 3 10ml vials of 250mg/ml enanth

I got the name brand.   But yeah, shouldn't be costing him 59 a week!

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Pneumothorax

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 12:03:28 PM »
Vial of 10 cc test without insurance is 85 bucks

So I went to the pharmacy here in my town and apparently the cash price cost of 200mg vial of Test Cyp is ~$48.  Still seems high.  The male wellness clinic offers package deals if I pay for a bunch of shots up front which can get the price down to about $38 per week test+hcg.  It's not that I don't have the money, I just would rather get the insurance to pay for it as long as it's roughly equal service.  So, this week I'm going to go into the PCP and get his injection see how much it costs copay+what insurance doesn't cover, and still do the HCG shot and the other 130mg shot at the TRT clinic.

I'll be completely honest that HCG shot is pretty damn nice, I got one on Friday and I was feeling pretty outstanding for about 48 hours.  I can definitely tell when that wears off.

StackedDec

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 12:49:11 PM »
Probably not worth it to order it online, but 250mg of test enan or cyp a week cost me 3 dollars.  Hcg would be 10 at most.

Pneumothorax

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 11:44:03 PM »
Yeah, I know it's probably much cheaper to get it online, but I've got job commitments and I need to be able to pass a drug test or show a prescription if I pop positive for something.

Update, I went to my PCP and after sitting in the office for an hour before getting seen for a shot + script only visit I decided that I'm just gonna go with the male wellness clinic.  Good service should count for something, I get in and out of there in 20 minutes and that's getting a 5-10 minute talk with the doctor, a hot assistant checking my vitals and weight. 

I'm still waiting to get the 200mg vials from the pharmacy, but I was told it would be $50 a bottle but it could be more.  So after doing all the math I figured that the difference in cost going to my PCP vs the wellness clinic is about $800 per year, so about $65 a month.  For the extra money at the clinic I'm getting better service, HCG injections and the doctor actually has a goal for treatment other than getting me within the 300-900 range.   I'm going to do it for a year at the wellness clinic and then maybe shop around some more for a cheaper price.

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 10:00:20 AM »
Good to hear. 
I'm about to start HRT,,, it's a big decision on injecting the rest of my life and scared of heart attacks and prostate cancer, but the quality of life is more important.

Plus I am finding more and more the dangers of low test.

I came off a cycle of deca 6-800 a week x 13 weeks, test 400 x 16 weeks.  I am 6 weeks off everything right now, finished Pct last week.  Going to wait 4 more weeks and get labs, if test is below 300, fuck it, I'm going on TRT.   Excited but somewhat hesitant on injecting x life
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Zillotch

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2017, 10:46:58 AM »
Have you guys tried dhea? Seriously... that stuff makes me feel fantastic... improved mood, well being, reduced body fat and improved sleep, too. Its stupid cheap, effective, legal and available anywhere. Underrated hormone, imo - worth a try.

Mayday

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2017, 02:40:06 PM »
Definitely go weekly shots. Always do what makes you feel best. If you read the trt forums seriously 80% of guys even whilst on trt have issues and feel like shit. They get fucked up protocols from doctors.

Worm - I never get why people are scared? If you are genuine low test (I was mega bad) the reality is your health will suffer and quality of life is shit. I always remind myself just how bad things were prior to getting on so even if I might not feel like.taking.a.ahot I know I will feel all the better doing so anyway.

Trt isn't the devil, having genuine low test levels that destroy your life and not doing anything to help yourself.... That's the devil.

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 04:14:32 PM »
Definitely go weekly shots. Always do what makes you feel best. If you read the trt forums seriously 80% of guys even whilst on trt have issues and feel like shit. They get fucked up protocols from doctors.

Worm - I never get why people are scared? If you are genuine low test (I was mega bad) the reality is your health will suffer and quality of life is shit. I always remind myself just how bad things were prior to getting on so even if I might not feel like.taking.a.ahot I know I will feel all the better doing so anyway.

Trt isn't the devil, having genuine low test levels that destroy your life and not doing anything to help yourself.... That's the devil.

Thanks!  That makes me feel better, and I now completely agree with you now that I study the research. The more studies I read show how bad low test is
When I was on cycle last I remember saying to myself this is the best I felt mentally (happiest) in my life.
My only issue is that I always only check labs off a deca /test cycle.

I been off everything x 6 weeks, off Pct x 1 week.  How long should I wait before I check labs?  Now or wait

another month?

I would love to not have to go through another PCT in my life, sucks ass!
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Pneumothorax

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2017, 11:28:21 PM »
Definitely go weekly shots. Always do what makes you feel best. If you read the trt forums seriously 80% of guys even whilst on trt have issues and feel like shit. They get fucked up protocols from doctors.

Worm - I never get why people are scared? If you are genuine low test (I was mega bad) the reality is your health will suffer and quality of life is shit. I always remind myself just how bad things were prior to getting on so even if I might not feel like.taking.a.ahot I know I will feel all the better doing so anyway.

Trt isn't the devil, having genuine low test levels that destroy your life and not doing anything to help yourself.... That's the devil.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with the weekly shot.  All the stuff I've been reading suggests doing test cyp injections twice a week, so even doing it weekly might end up with some peaks and valleys.  But doing it once every 2 weeks just isn't going to be enough.

equipoise

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 04:05:48 AM »
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the weekly shot.  All the stuff I've been reading suggests doing test cyp injections twice a week, so even doing it weekly might end up with some peaks and valleys.  But doing it once every 2 weeks just isn't going to be enough.

Go and look up Dr John Crisler's TRT protocol. He also offers online advice and consultations, can find him on Facebook. From a youtube vid I saw, basically he advocates pinning a small amount of test prop daily (like 10-15 mg) (together with HCG, pregnenolone, and DHEA as supplements). Basically this daily pinning is supposed to mimic how the body naturally produces test. The problem with pinning once a week is that your levels are supra physiological the first one or two days after you pin, then drop precipitously towards the end of the week. Smaller, more frequent injections keep blood levels more stable

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 05:45:34 AM »
Go and look up Dr John Crisler's TRT protocol. He also offers online advice and consultations, can find him on Facebook. From a youtube vid I saw, basically he advocates pinning a small amount of test prop daily (like 10-15 mg) (together with HCG, pregnenolone, and DHEA as supplements). Basically this daily pinning is supposed to mimic how the body naturally produces test. The problem with pinning once a week is that your levels are supra physiological the first one or two days after you pin, then drop precipitously towards the end of the week. Smaller, more frequent injections keep blood levels more stable

Good luck getting prop.  My HRT clinic wouldn't give it to me, another clinic charges 150 for 10 ml prop.  I believe daily injection are best to.
How does he give the dhea or pregnolone?
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Princess L

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2017, 01:53:49 PM »
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the weekly shot.  All the stuff I've been reading suggests doing test cyp injections twice a week, so even doing it weekly might end up with some peaks and valleys.  But doing it once every 2 weeks just isn't going to be enough.

What is the story behind your screen name?   :-\
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jdooly

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2017, 12:10:38 PM »
It's probably too much to get into, however, I was on TRT for 6 months.  Test Cyp 150/week after slowly increasing the doses after about 2 months all legal under Doctors care, (or lack thereof, since he wouldn't prescribe Anastrozole)   All I got was gyno, decreased libido and shrunken balls.  Side effects gone now after ceasing injections.  I can elaborate more if anyone cares.  Although I did notice a slight increase in muscle density and strength, no way it was worth it to me, not yet anyway, at 39 years old.  Been training since I was 21. 

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 04:48:12 AM »
It's probably too much to get into, however, I was on TRT for 6 months.  Test Cyp 150/week after slowly increasing the doses after about 2 months all legal under Doctors care, (or lack thereof, since he wouldn't prescribe Anastrozole)   All I got was gyno, decreased libido and shrunken balls.  Side effects gone now after ceasing injections.  I can elaborate more if anyone cares.  Although I did notice a slight increase in muscle density and strength, no way it was worth it to me, not yet anyway, at 39 years old.  Been training since I was 21. 
I would like to hear more.

I think all your sides could have been prevented by checking labs and see where your estrogen was, and sides prevented with an AI and hcg.

I'm thinking about starting TRT cause my quality of life sucks right now... tired, no motivation, just don't feel myself or happy at all even though I have a near perfect life etc.  I think the mental well being is much more important than my balls shrinking.

But seriously, I ran test and deca cycles and never had a side effect because I used proper ancillaries
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jdooly

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 08:51:43 AM »
I would like to hear more.

I think all your sides could have been prevented by checking labs and see where your estrogen was, and sides prevented with an AI and hcg.

I'm thinking about starting TRT cause my quality of life sucks right now... tired, no motivation, just don't feel myself or happy at all even though I have a near perfect life etc.  I think the mental well being is much more important than my balls shrinking.

But seriously, I ran test and deca cycles and never had a side effect because I used proper ancillaries
yes I'll put some more info up soon, probably grab my lab results and such.  I do know, my prolactin levels went up, causing some concern from the Dr.  It's since leveled back down but I'm no longer on TRT, and I don't know what my T levels are, but I am pretty sure they are hovering between 200-240, because I initially began TRT at 240.  I've never taken drugs in my life, been training since I was 21 and I turn 40 next month.  I was interested in TRT for probably the same reasons everyone is.  I'm healthy in every aspect, but because of my love of gym time, I was like, "sure, lets try it."   And as I've mentioned, the side effects weren't worth the little bit of positive body composition changes I noticed, as well as a bit of strength increase. I should post my lab results when I'm not at work, lol.  The highest my T levels got on TRT was about 900, while injecting 150/once a week, of Test Cyp.  Sigh.  I was hoping for the positive sexual benefits we all "hear" about.  My sexual being is normal now. I wasnt having problems prior to TRT, however, the Test robbed me of overall interest, and honestly I did feel the Test in a way "desensitized" my overall interest and confidence to even use it, lol.   This is just one man's experience though. 

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 02:03:24 PM »
I really think if you had ur estrogen under control then there wouldn't have been an issue.  Something went wrong with ur experience
Test levels of 200 is no way to lead life, look up low test and mortality.   Low T is linked to increase death rate even after they factor in for obesity and smoking.
People on androgen deprivation therapy have much higher risks of heart disease, even as early as 6 months...

I m thinking about TRT and I know from my cycle experience, when I run 400 mg with AI and hcg I feel unbelievable!   It's the happiest time in my life, sex drive get too high and I'm rock hard...

I think if u redid HRT with proper ancillary meds, you'd have a very fldifferent experience
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jdooly

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 08:08:18 AM »
I really think if you had ur estrogen under control then there wouldn't have been an issue.  Something went wrong with ur experience
Test levels of 200 is no way to lead life, look up low test and mortality.   Low T is linked to increase death rate even after they factor in for obesity and smoking.
People on androgen deprivation therapy have much higher risks of heart disease, even as early as 6 months...

I m thinking about TRT and I know from my cycle experience, when I run 400 mg with AI and hcg I feel unbelievable!   It's the happiest time in my life, sex drive get too high and I'm rock hard...

I think if u redid HRT with proper ancillary meds, you'd have a very fldifferent experience
  This experience is exactly what I was hoping for, lol.  Because I was under Doctors care, my estrogen levels fell within "normal" range, although I personally thought it was too high, due to my sides.  I need to post my actual labs soon, sorry, I'm meaning to do it.  I thought Arimidex actually decreased sex drive, no?  If I was to do it again, I would try and find a clinic that agrees to prescribe A-dex, because my primary Dr. will not, or find a way to get it from an alternative source.  Anyone have any luck with the peptides?  Like, is this a good choice for A-dex or Clomid via peptides? 

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 11:46:27 AM »
  This experience is exactly what I was hoping for, lol.  Because I was under Doctors care, my estrogen levels fell within "normal" range, although I personally thought it was too high, due to my sides.  I need to post my actual labs soon, sorry, I'm meaning to do it.  I thought Arimidex actually decreased sex drive, no?  If I was to do it again, I would try and find a clinic that agrees to prescribe A-dex, because my primary Dr. will not, or find a way to get it from an alternative source.  Anyone have any luck with the peptides?  Like, is this a good choice for A-dex or Clomid via peptides? 
Arimidex is easy to get, just as is hrt.. almost too easy lol
Arimidex will not lower drive in and of itself, its all about estrogen, if too low it will lower sex drive

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jdooly

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2017, 12:45:35 PM »
Arimidex is easy to get, just as is hrt.. almost too easy lol
Arimidex will not lower drive in and of itself, its all about estrogen, if too low it will lower sex drive


In my case, while on TRT, my estrogen was within "normal" although a bit elevated.  My prolactin levels were high.  A question I still have is:  Does Testosterone administration alone increase sex drive/mood/performance as the "clinics" boast, IF the estrogen/estrodiol and prolactin levels are kept from rising? 

theworm

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Re: Starting TRT
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2017, 05:24:34 AM »
In my case, while on TRT, my estrogen was within "normal" although a bit elevated.  My prolactin levels were high.  A question I still have is:  Does Testosterone administration alone increase sex drive/mood/performance as the "clinics" boast, IF the estrogen/estrodiol and prolactin levels are kept from rising? 

Yes.

Prolactin rises cause of increasing estrogen I believe.  I used .5 arimidex twice a week and felt like I was 18 again.   You can always get arimidex from these HRT clinics pretty easy, or I'd see an endocrinologist as they know more of what's going on.

I'm 38 and getting labs done on Thursday and I'm somewhat excited if their low so I can start HRT but I'm hesitant cause I know it's a life commitment.  I wonder when test undeconate will be released
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