Author Topic: In Like Flynn  (Read 50656 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2017, 06:09:40 PM »
I don't think it's a beholden type of thing.

More of a if someone were to nudge trump to do something that just happens to benefit Russia, he might be convinced to do it. Not like he HAS to do it.

But what about how crazy this conspiracy theory is?  Like most of these nutty theories, when you actually piece them together from start to finish, they don't make sense.  There are gaping holes.  No way Russia would have targeted Trump, who nobody believed had a snowball's chance.  They would have targeted someone who they thought was electable. 

I actually Hillary is a more logical target, particularly given all of the foreign money she took.   

Yamcha

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2017, 06:14:20 PM »
until an official transcript of the phone call/calls are released, it's natural to remain skeptical.

Remember, these are the same 3-letter agencies that swore that there were WMD's, were involved in Fast and Furious, supplied "rebels" with guns/ammo, etc., etc., etc.

feels like the remnants of previous administrations are "marking their territory" so-to-speak
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Dos Equis

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2017, 06:20:59 PM »
until an official transcript of the phone call/calls are released, it's natural to remain skeptical.

Remember, these are the same 3-letter agencies that swore that there were WMD's, were involved in Fast and Furious, supplied "rebels" with guns/ammo, etc., etc., etc.

feels like the remnants of previous administrations are "marking their territory" so-to-speak

Skeptical of what?  That someone in the Russian government worked with Trump to help him get elected with the intent of gaining favors? 

Al Doggity

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2017, 06:21:08 PM »
It's not really sarcasm.  It's mocking.
Once again, displaying how your understanding of English is unique from the way most other English speakers use it.  :-\


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I understand you folks have lost your mind since the election.  The talking points from the highest levels of government hacks to message board trolls include Russia somehow manipulating the outcome of our election that resulted in Trump winning the election.  It's stupid on a 9/11 Troofer level.  I find it pretty amusing.   :)

Julian Assange was open about the fact that the hacks were meant to influence the election. There are members on this board who say the hacks influenced their votes, as well as members who say the hacks should have influenced others' votes. GOP House members are calling for an investigation (albeit, one that will most likely be toothless) into Trumpites contact with Russia. The stupidity is in pretending all of that is  a leftist conspiracy.

Dos Equis

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2017, 06:32:48 PM »
Once again, displaying how your understanding of English is unique from the way most other English speakers use it.  :-\


Julian Assange was open about the fact that the hacks were meant to influence the election. There are members on this board who say the hacks influenced their votes, as well as members who say the hacks should have influenced others' votes. GOP House members are calling for an investigation (albeit, one that will most likely be toothless) into Trumpites contact with Russia. The stupidity is in pretending all of that is  a leftist conspiracy.


I know I'm wasting my time with you, but for the benefit of anyone else who might be reading, you can mock someone without using sarcasm.

Wait.  So the truthful information released by WikiLeaks "influenced" the election?  Is that why Trump won?  It wasn't because Hillary was incredibly dishonest and one of the most unpopular and least trustworthy presidential candidates in American history? 

Investigation into what?  Go ahead and say it.  You believe Putin conspired with Trump, while Trump was a candidate, to try and "rig" the election so Trump would win, and subsequently gain some kind of favors from Trump.  Go ahead and say it, so I can mock you some more.   ;D   

Yamcha

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2017, 06:40:26 PM »
Skeptical of what?  That someone in the Russian government worked with Trump to help him get elected with the intent of gaining favors? 

Touché.

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TuHolmes

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2017, 06:47:19 PM »
But what about how crazy this conspiracy theory is?  Like most of these nutty theories, when you actually piece them together from start to finish, they don't make sense.  There are gaping holes.  No way Russia would have targeted Trump, who nobody believed had a snowball's chance.  They would have targeted someone who they thought was electable. 

I actually Hillary is a more logical target, particularly given all of the foreign money she took.   

Oh. I agree. It really is pretty out there.

Even when I type it out myself it just seems kooky.

I don't say it with any real seriousness either. It's just random drivel in this instance. I agree there are holes and you are absolutely right, Hillary would be a more likely target.

Al Doggity

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2017, 07:36:16 PM »
I know I'm wasting my time with you, but for the benefit of anyone else who might be reading, you can mock someone without using sarcasm.

Yes, but when you mock someone by USING sarcasm that is not mocking someone without using sarcasm. Unless when you said that Trump might be a Manchurian candidate you actually meant that?  ???


Quote
Wait.  So the truthful information released by WikiLeaks "influenced" the election?  Is that why Trump won?  It wasn't because Hillary was incredibly dishonest and one of the most unpopular and least trustworthy presidential candidates in American history?  
Yeah, it's not like people take more than one thing into consideration when they vote or anything. It's not like both candidates were considered subpar (weren't you anti-Trump for most of the primaries?) and curated email leaks could have had an adverse impact on Clinton's campaign in a tight race. It's not like Clinton's polling numbers took hits as a result of email leaks and subsequent investigations. (There is an extended example of sarcasm.HTH)

Quote
Investigation into what?  Go ahead and say it.  You believe Putin conspired with Trump, while Trump was a candidate, to try and "rig" the election so Trump would win, and subsequently gain some kind of favors from Trump.  Go ahead and say it, so I can mock you some more.   ;D  
So, wait... I'm not even sure what you're asking me here. Are you claiming that the bipartisan calls to investigate Trumpites ties to Russia are a figment of my imagination?

Al Doggity

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2017, 07:38:58 PM »
I agree there are holes and you are absolutely right, Hillary would be a more likely target.

 ??? This makes no sense. Strategically,  the point of targeting Trump was that he was an outsider who had expressed favorable views of Russia. 

Las Vegas

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2017, 08:43:39 PM »
If Bill Clinton had a hand in Trump running (I can't believe otherwise) due to thinking "this guy can't get elected" like practically everyone else thought, then what does it say.

If they get Trump, that's where they'd better look next: Bill Clinton.

But seriously, no.  Too many unconnected dots and too long a way to go to pin anything on anyone, from the info we have.  Could be more fake news.

None of it makes sense ATM, so the story should be investigated correctly or dropped.  Quit bothering us with this bull.

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2017, 09:56:26 PM »
By what I've seen, this involves an accusation of "influencing" of some sort.

So I'd like to ask this:

In what way should it be said, that "influence" was gained?  What is the presumed thought-process involved with those who were "influenced" as is claimed?

TuHolmes

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #86 on: February 15, 2017, 10:26:54 PM »
??? This makes no sense. Strategically,  the point of targeting Trump was that he was an outsider who had expressed favorable views of Russia. 

He just said some stuff at that point.

Plus, what DX says is right. He was unlikely to win. Why waste effort on the loser?

Al Doggity

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2017, 11:57:20 PM »
He just said some stuff at that point.

Plus, what DX says is right. He was unlikely to win. Why waste effort on the loser?


No, Donald's praise of Putin was extensive and effusive. Here's an article that details exactly how much Donald wanted to suck Putin off:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/trump-putin-timeline

On top of that Putin already had an established rocky relationship with Clinton and she was part of the administration that collapsed the ruble.

If you were Putin and you were going to tamper with the election, who do you think would be more beholden to you: the frontrunner with whom you have a long, icy history or the underdog who has a mancrush on you and whose most prominent staff have assorted high-dollar,high-level business dealings in your country?The underdog whose multiple bankruptcies resulted in American banks refusing to lend to him and who allegedly won't release his tax returns because it would detail the size of debt he owes to Russian banks? Gee, which one would be more thankful?

It was relatively little effort for an extraordinary amount to gain. Do you realize how much a favorable relationship with the US would benefit Russia? Even ignoring the possibility of Trump and Putin colluding to sway the election, just having Trump in the White House would have been way more advantageous for Russia than having Hillary there. So, no, it wasn't a zero sum game. And, sure, Trump was the underdog, but he was hardly an astronomical longshot. Here's a link to a thread I started in September of 2015 commenting on his momentum and the likelihood he would clinch the Republican nomination:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=579450.0  

Yamcha

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Yamcha

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #89 on: February 16, 2017, 04:54:55 AM »
Intelligence Official: Transcripts Of Flynn's Calls Don't Show Criminal Wrongdoing

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing

A current U.S. intelligence official tells NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the transcripts of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, although the official noted that doesn't rule out the possibility of illegal actions.

The official also says that there are recordings as well as transcripts of the calls, and that the transcripts don't suggest Flynn was acting under orders in his conversations.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2017, 04:56:54 AM »
Intelligence Official: Transcripts Of Flynn's Calls Don't Show Criminal Wrongdoing

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing

A current U.S. intelligence official tells NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the transcripts of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, although the official noted that doesn't rule out the possibility of illegal actions.

The official also says that there are recordings as well as transcripts of the calls, and that the transcripts don't suggest Flynn was acting under orders in his conversations.

Liberals are already in a frenzy - dont bother them w reality. 

Yamcha

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2017, 04:57:09 AM »
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

- Eisenhower's Farewell Address, 1961

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Dos Equis

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2017, 09:44:01 AM »
Yes, but when you mock someone by USING sarcasm that is not mocking someone without using sarcasm. Unless when you said that Trump might be a Manchurian candidate you actually meant that?  ???

Yeah, it's not like people take more than one thing into consideration when they vote or anything. It's not like both candidates were considered subpar (weren't you anti-Trump for most of the primaries?) and curated email leaks could have had an adverse impact on Clinton's campaign in a tight race. It's not like Clinton's polling numbers took hits as a result of email leaks and subsequent investigations. (There is an extended example of sarcasm.HTH)
So, wait... I'm not even sure what you're asking me here. Are you claiming that the bipartisan calls to investigate Trumpites ties to Russia are a figment of my imagination?

Oh so now you're acknowledging that you can mock someone without using sarcasm?  Good.  

I was a Never Trump voter.  Did not vote for him.  After the election, I gave him a clean slate and want to give him a chance to lead.  

But back to these "seedy Russian ties."  If the conspiracy differs from how I outlined it earlier, walk me through exactly how this whole thing worked.  

Dos Equis

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2017, 09:47:12 AM »

 And, sure, Trump was the underdog, but he was hardly an astronomical longshot. Here's a link to a thread I started in September of 2015 commenting on his momentum and the likelihood he would clinch the Republican nomination:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=579450.0  

Trump was not an astronomical longshot??  lol   

Here is what you said, from your own link:

He's so at odds with what the GOP has claimed to stand for for the last quarter century that I find it hard to believe that the nomination is a lock for him. However, there's no denying that he has a ton of momentum. If he wins the nomination, will this mark a major idealogical shift for the GOP? They've had a bit of a personality crisis  for a while now. For the last few election cycles it seems like they get really excited over anyone who's not business as usual, then just wind up abandoning that person for Boringum McTypicalPolitician.

You didn't say he was likely to win the nomination.  "Alternative facts." 

Yamcha

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2017, 08:07:14 AM »


but Gen. Flynn, ammirite?!
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TuHolmes

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2017, 09:02:15 AM »


but Gen. Flynn, ammirite?!

Didn't Trump just get some trademark rights from China as well?

Kind of weird how that worked out no?

Yamcha

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2017, 09:46:12 AM »
Didn't Trump just get some trademark rights from China as well?

Kind of weird how that worked out no?

Didn't Clinton approve the sell of uranium to Russia as well?

Kind of weird how that worked out no?
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TuHolmes

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #97 on: February 19, 2017, 09:53:50 AM »
Didn't Clinton approve the sell of uranium to Russia as well?

Kind of weird how that worked out no?

Actually. It's a little more complicated.

Now. She may have. But it's hard to find who voted for what. Here's some bullet items I found. I do make the assumption that she signed off on the deal.

Copied:




The mines, mills, and land the company holds in the US account for 20 percent of the US’s uranium production capacity, not actual produced uranium.

The State Department was one of nine federal agencies and a number of additional independent federal and state regulators that signed off on the deal.

President Obama, not Secretary Clinton, was the only person who could’ve vetoed the deal.

Since Russia doesn’t have the legal right to export uranium out of the US, its main goal was likely to gain access to the company’s uranium assets in Kazakhstan.

Crucially, the main national security concern was not about nuclear weapons proliferation, as Trump suggests, but actually ensuring the US doesn’t have to depend too much on uranium sources from abroad, as the US only makes about 20 percent of the uranium it needs. An advantage in making nuclear weapons wasn’t the main issue because, as PolitiFact notes, “the United States and Russia had for years cooperated on that front, with Russia sending enriched fuel from decommissioned warheads to be used in American nuclear power plants in return for raw uranium.”

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2017, 11:10:02 AM »
Intelligence Official: Transcripts Of Flynn's Calls Don't Show Criminal Wrongdoing

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing

A current U.S. intelligence official tells NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the transcripts of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, although the official noted that doesn't rule out the possibility of illegal actions.

The official also says that there are recordings as well as transcripts of the calls, and that the transcripts don't suggest Flynn was acting under orders in his conversations.

So why did Trump Fire him?

Al Doggity

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Re: In Like Flynn
« Reply #99 on: February 19, 2017, 11:56:58 AM »
Trump was not an astronomical longshot??  lol   

Here is what you said, from your own link:

You didn't say he was likely to win the nomination.  "Alternative facts." 

 ??? Right  in the quote you posted I say he has a ton of momentum. Exactly where you bolded, I said why I didn't think he was a lock. The entire point of the thread was about him being the likely nominee. "Likely" =/= "lock"  ::)