Mike Mentzer - Discussion

[oldschoolfan]

Thanks for the comments, glad people enjoyed the post! Rex Dante was sort of a motivational speaker and life coach incorporating the ideas of Ayn Rand. He was pretty down to earth, I did some phone consults with him on Mike's referral, after my ex and I split and I was going through a down period. He helped me with some insights and ideas.
As to cardio, Mike kinda became a cardio fiend in 79 when he had let his mother's death and other things affect him to the point of getting really depressed and staying in bed until noon. He lost his motivation for a while, and finally saw Ray looking freaky prior to his America win, which lit a  fire under his ass. He was too far from contest condition, so he added in cardio to accelerate the process, and ate less fat and protein and carbs to fuel his weight workouts. He wasn't afraid to challenge the prevailing conventional wisdom of the time, which may have been ultimately his best contribution to the sport.

i totally agree, i really liked how he said eating to much protein was bullshit as well, and said bulking up was stupid cause he had done it as well.   guy was way ahead of his time in thinking was always my favorite bb.  still is for that matter.

[Taffin]

At the risk of outing myself - what a handsome b@stard in this shot - look at them cheekbones! (nh)

Unlike bbers today, Mentzer had a unique look. And it's nice to see real delts without it being pumped up from site injects and synthol.

[Taffin]

i think they were onto something there!

we need to bring todays bodybuilders together with todays bands!!

phil heath and guns n roses tour 2017!!

It appears Axl is already in the bulking stage 

(I realise I'm probably the last person in the world to find this out - especially as I never watch entertainment channel sh1t - so this probably merits a Lincoln poster, but I just Googled and noticed this pic.....FFS!)

[dj181]

his last training ideas were rather nuts

ie training just once a week or less

wonder if anyone ever made true progress on that 

He basically preached training 3-4 times per week from the mid 70s til the mid 90s then all the sudden he "discovered" that training once a week or even less was best

[The Scott]

his last training ideas were rather nuts

ie training just once a week or less

wonder if anyone ever made true progress on that  ??
He basically preached training 3-4 times per week from the mid 70s til the mid 90s then all the sudden he "discovered" that training once a week or even less was best

I tried the once every 7 to 10 days routine outlined in his book, "High-Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way".  I trained so hard that I was too sore to train the next day. Or the next.  Or the next...  I was sore for well over a week. 

To be honest, I did not experience any real benefit from that routine that I or anyone else noticed. I even tried resting a couple of weeks before hitting it again.  Now I use a variation of his original methods and train between 2 and 4 times a week and with warmup sets, I usually do no more than 6 to 9 sets per body part and am finished within 30 minutes. 

If I miss a week for whatever reason, not a problem.  I think Mentzer was above average smarts-wise but his anger (read: ego)  kept him from being Mr. Olympia after 1980. His physique was superb and I would rather bodybuilding returned to that era.

Of course drugs played a huge part in his training but that's true of all "modern" bodybuilders.  His downfall was his ego. The amphetamines worked to destroy him.  Jack LaLanne was once quoted as saying he asked a modern day bodybuilder "why the drugs?" and the man said it was because they worked and they wanted to build more muscle.  LaLanne stated rather openly that he could see why that sufficed as if you had told him in his youth that drinking beef blood would put more muscle on him, he would've been down at the slaughter house with a gallon container.

It's not true of everything but moderation in many things is the key to not only longevity but perhaps happiness.  Mentzer will be remembered longer than Coleman or Haney but not Oliva or Arnold and I think it's entirely due to his showing people that training less can give you more and not just in the gym but also in your actually have a life outside of the gym.

[dj181]

^^^ thanks for the feedback

it seems that training 3-4 days per week is ideal

i think that 7 days is too long btw bodyparts

[Simple Simon]

^^^ thanks for the feedback

it seems that training 3-4 days per week is ideal

i think that 7 days is too long btw bodyparts

said the 132lb man

[Eric2]

I tried the once every 7 to 10 days routine outlined in his book, "High-Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way".  I trained so hard that I was too sore to train the next day. Or the next.  Or the next...  I was sore for well over a week. 

To be honest, I did not experience any real benefit from that routine that I or anyone else noticed. I even tried resting a couple of weeks before hitting it again.  Now I use a variation of his original methods and train between 2 and 4 times a week and with warmup sets, I usually do no more than 6 to 9 sets per body part and am finished within 30 minutes. 

If I miss a week for whatever reason, not a problem.  I think Mentzer was above average smarts-wise but his anger (read: ego)  kept him from being Mr. Olympia after 1980. His physique was superb and I would rather bodybuilding returned to that era.

Of course drugs played a huge part in his training but that's true of all "modern" bodybuilders.  His downfall was his ego. The amphetamines worked to destroy him.  Jack LaLanne was once quoted as saying he asked a modern day bodybuilder "why the drugs?" and the man said it was because they worked and they wanted to build more muscle.  LaLanne stated rather openly that he could see why that sufficed as if you had told him in his youth that drinking beef blood would put more muscle on him, he would've been down at the slaughter house with a gallon container.

It's not true of everything but moderation in many things is the key to not only longevity but perhaps happiness.  Mentzer will be remembered longer than Coleman or Haney but not Oliva or Arnold and I think it's entirely due to his showing people that training less can give you more and not just in the gym but also in your actually have a life outside of the gym.

Well put. I had the same response in training once per week as you did. Mike's training ideas is where his legacy lies. More so than his competition days. I do not know where the line is drawn exactly as to when too much training has occurred or not enough. When it comes down to it if I am motivated to work out for over an hour then that's what I do. If I hit it hard and gas out in a half an hour then that is what I do. If the muscle I want to train are still tight from before then I give it another day. Mike opened the door for me to listen more to my body, not just a workout routine written by some so called expert I never trained with. It really boils down (for me) to being in tune with my body.

[dj181]

said the 132lb man

 

[Mr Anabolic]

^^^ thanks for the feedback

it seems that training 3-4 days per week is ideal

i think that 7 days is too long btw bodyparts

In my experience, 4 day/week between body parts is the best for size, but you need to back off once in a while and take off.  I always grew when I did this. 

[dj181]

speaking of the Mentzer diet get a load of this....

    

In his Heavy Duty Journal he gives a few examples of what he ate during his contest preparation before the 1979 Mr. Olympia (they′re samples from his training log). For example:

1. On June 27th, he ate nothing(!) for breakfast. He first meal at four o′ clock in the afternoon (is that PM?) he consumed only one peach and a protein drink (200 calories). At nine in the evening he ate 60 grams of nuts and raisins (200 calories) and one salad (150 calories). So he ate only 550 calories total that day... (He weighed 102 kg before his workout).

2. Juli 16th

Breakfast: 1/2 honey melon (50) and 1 nectarine (75);

Post-workout meal: same as above;

Lunch (12:00): Turkey (150) and baked potato (125);

Diner (16:00): Turkey (350), water melon, yoghurt and some sweets (450);

Snack: Plums (70) and some bread (150).

Total: 1545 calories.


I′ve noticed he liked to eat fruit, cake(!), pancakes and, his favorite... ice cream! The evening before the contest he also drank some coffee, 1 glas of wine and 1 wodkacocktail as ′diuretics′.

Hope this will give you some insight into his eating habits!

Oh, I almost forgot: yes, in his The Mentzer Method to Fitness (with Ardy Friedberg, 1980) he claims that he ate only 60 grams of protein a day to maintain his bodyweight of 220 pounds (and still growing muscle)!


   
B-WINE (Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands) on 8/26/2004 5:35:35 AM    
   

Here are three more examples of the HD Journal:

1. August 21th, 1979

Breakfast: Pancakes (?) (400 calories) and protein (drink?) (...)

Post-workout snack: cake (250) and melon (...)

15:30: Chicken (250), Fruit (100) and baked potato (150)


2. September 3rd, 1979

Breakfast: 2 brancakes (?), margarine (350), pineapple (100) and protein (drink?) (150)

15:30: 1 piece of chicken (150), half potato with butter (100)

Snack: a couple of strawberries (50)


3. September 29th, 1979

Breakfast (at 10:00): Apple pie (300), pineapple and fig(pear?)s (350)

15:00: Turkey (200) and fruitcake (500)

Note: He had diner at a restaurant with his brother Ray, Pam (Ray′s girlfriend?), Jusup Wilkosz and his wife, and Axel Gottlob. He says he ate more calories then he could count!


P.S. I′m sorry if it′s sometimes a bit vague here and there, but I had to translate it from German (I own a German copy of the book; I also have HD I in German) to English and I′m Dutch myself...

http://www.highintensity.net/Forums/ViewTopic.asp?topic_id=649

AND AGAIN.... he claims that he ate only 60 grams of protein a day to maintain his bodyweight of 220 pounds (and still growing muscle)!  

[PJim]

his last training ideas were rather nuts

ie training just once a week or less

wonder if anyone ever made true progress on that 

He basically preached training 3-4 times per week from the mid 70s til the mid 90s then all the sudden he "discovered" that training once a week or even less was best

I've been doing it 10 years now and it's served me extremely well.

[The Scott]

Well put. I had the same response in training once per week as you did. Mike's training ideas is where his legacy lies. More so than his competition days. I do not know where the line is drawn exactly as to when too much training has occurred or not enough. When it comes down to it if I am motivated to work out for over an hour then that's what I do. If I hit it hard and gas out in a half an hour then that is what I do. If the muscle I want to train are still tight from before then I give it another day. Mike opened the door for me to listen more to my body, not just a workout routine written by some so called expert I never trained with. It really boils down (for me) to being in tune with my body.

Excellent insight into what it is to train as a man that thinks for himself.  "Dinosaur Training" by Brooks Kubick is a great read but like Mentzer's HD, you have to tailor it to yourself, otherwise you may get injured and/or burn out.  I've been training now for well over 40 years (now in my 60s) and I do it because it makes me feel both mentally and physically better.

And yes, there are times I will do a ton of light weight pumping sets in a row because I feel like it and it feels good to just pump it up as fast as I can.  Mostly it is a mixture of HD/Dinosaur training but again, tailored to my body as I see fit.  A few weeks back I did my warmups and then did a set of DB flys to failure followed (within a few seconds) by a single set of Smith Machine BP to failure and then rest pause in the same set to ultimate failure.  I do not have anyone to spot me so I just do what I can until I can't do it and the Smith Machine allows me to do just that.

I'm a wussy.  

[jollygiant]

Excellent insight into what it is to train as a man that thinks for himself.  "Dinosaur Training" by Brooks Kubick is a great read but like Mentzer's HD, you have to tailor it to yourself, otherwise you may get injured and/or burn out.  I've been training now for well over 40 years (now in my 60s) and I do it because it makes me feel both mentally and physically better.

And yes, there are times I will do a ton of light weight pumping sets in a row because I feel like it and it feels good to just pump it up as fast as I can.  Mostly it is a mixture of HD/Dinosaur training but again, tailored to my body as I see fit.  A few weeks back I did my warmups and then did a set of DB flys to failure followed (within a few seconds) by a single set of Smith Machine BP to failure and then rest pause in the same set to ultimate failure.  I do not have anyone to spot me so I just do what I can until I can't do it and the Smith Machine allows me to do just that.

I'm a wussy.  

yes, nothing is carved in stone.

[Simple Simon]

where do you keep digging up all these old photos, you are 132lbs, who fucking cares what shape you are in.

[YngiweRhoads]

his last training ideas were rather nuts

ie training just once a week or less

wonder if anyone ever made true progress on that 

He basically preached training 3-4 times per week from the mid 70s til the mid 90s then all the sudden he "discovered" that training once a week or even less was best

I did.

I was at the strongest point in my life working following one of his workout routines.

I found it hard on my joints after a few months and stopped. Went back to my usual 3xweek afterwards.

[dj181]

where do you keep digging up all these old photos, you are 132lbs, who fucking cares what shape you are in.

walking weight is bout a buck 60 chief

ill make 32s to set the strict curl record once I'm ready  

[PJim]

I did.

I was at the strongest point in my life working following one of his workout routines.

I found it hard on my joints after a few months and stopped. Went back to my usual 3xweek afterwards.

Consolidated routine?

The strength gains are phenomenal if done right. I use his ideal routine at the moment as my usual training partner moved away from town due to work about 9 months ago and I haven't really found a suitable replacement yet. It's easier to spot myself with that routine due to the exercise choices, if that makes sense, in terms of static holds and negatives.

We were up to deadlifting 240kg for 15 reps (partner got more or less the same), but with extremely slow negatives from the first to the last rep, probably 5-6 seconds per negative or more. That way it becomes far more than just a 'lift' IMO, it really focuses on each and every portion of the movement. Done in that fashion we were having to sit down to compose ourselves for 15 minutes afterwards from the sheer exhaustion. We'd drive back from a workout trembling from head to toe!

[oldschoolfan]

I did.

I was at the strongest point in my life working following one of his workout routines.

I found it hard on my joints after a few months and stopped. Went back to my usual 3xweek afterwards.

the same here, my strength shot up big time,  as well.

[Simple Simon]

walking weight is bout a buck 60 chief

ill make 32s to set the strict curl record once I'm ready  

if you can make 132 then thats your actual LBM.

Stop acting stupid joon.

[oldschoolfan]

speaking of the Mentzer diet get a load of this....

    

In his Heavy Duty Journal he gives a few examples of what he ate during his contest preparation before the 1979 Mr. Olympia (they′re samples from his training log). For example:

1. On June 27th, he ate nothing(!) for breakfast. He first meal at four o′ clock in the afternoon (is that PM?) he consumed only one peach and a protein drink (200 calories). At nine in the evening he ate 60 grams of nuts and raisins (200 calories) and one salad (150 calories). So he ate only 550 calories total that day... (He weighed 102 kg before his workout).

2. Juli 16th

Breakfast: 1/2 honey melon (50) and 1 nectarine (75);

Post-workout meal: same as above;

Lunch (12:00): Turkey (150) and baked potato (125);

Diner (16:00): Turkey (350), water melon, yoghurt and some sweets (450);

Snack: Plums (70) and some bread (150).

Total: 1545 calories.


I′ve noticed he liked to eat fruit, cake(!), pancakes and, his favorite... ice cream! The evening before the contest he also drank some coffee, 1 glas of wine and 1 wodkacocktail as ′diuretics′.

Hope this will give you some insight into his eating habits!

Oh, I almost forgot: yes, in his The Mentzer Method to Fitness (with Ardy Friedberg, 1980) he claims that he ate only 60 grams of protein a day to maintain his bodyweight of 220 pounds (and still growing muscle)!


   
B-WINE (Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands) on 8/26/2004 5:35:35 AM    
   

Here are three more examples of the HD Journal:

1. August 21th, 1979

Breakfast: Pancakes (?) (400 calories) and protein (drink?) (...)

Post-workout snack: cake (250) and melon (...)

15:30: Chicken (250), Fruit (100) and baked potato (150)


2. September 3rd, 1979

Breakfast: 2 brancakes (?), margarine (350), pineapple (100) and protein (drink?) (150)

15:30: 1 piece of chicken (150), half potato with butter (100)

Snack: a couple of strawberries (50)


3. September 29th, 1979

Breakfast (at 10:00): Apple pie (300), pineapple and fig(pear?)s (350)

15:00: Turkey (200) and fruitcake (500)

Note: He had diner at a restaurant with his brother Ray, Pam (Ray′s girlfriend?), Jusup Wilkosz and his wife, and Axel Gottlob. He says he ate more calories then he could count!


P.S. I′m sorry if it′s sometimes a bit vague here and there, but I had to translate it from German (I own a German copy of the book; I also have HD I in German) to English and I′m Dutch myself...

http://www.highintensity.net/Forums/ViewTopic.asp?topic_id=649

AND AGAIN.... he claims that he ate only 60 grams of protein a day to maintain his bodyweight of 220 pounds (and still growing muscle)!  

dj i have that same journal i commend you for typing all of that out, yes, mike believed in high carbs and just less calories to lose fat, makes things simpler to

[The Scott]

Consolidated routine?

The strength gains are phenomenal if done right. I use his ideal routine at the moment as my usual training partner moved away from town due to work about 9 months ago and I haven't really found a suitable replacement yet. It's easier to spot myself with that routine due to the exercise choices, if that makes sense, in terms of static holds and negatives.

We were up to deadlifting 240kg for 15 reps (partner got more or less the same), but with extremely slow negatives from the first to the last rep, probably 5-6 seconds per negative or more. That way it becomes far more than just a 'lift' IMO, it really focuses on each and every portion of the movement. Done in that fashion we were having to sit down to compose ourselves for 15 minutes afterwards from the sheer exhaustion. We'd drive back from a workout trembling from head to toe!

Well done!  When I trained my hardest via HIT, I would nearly pass out on the floor after I finished.   I literally did not want to move.  It can be difficult to get a training partner as most think you are crazy to train like that.  Who knows?  Maybe they're somewhat right! 

[oldschoolfan]

Well done!  When I trained my hardest via HIT, I would nearly pass out on the floor after I finished.   I literally did not want to move.  It can be difficult to get a training partner as most think you are crazy to train like that.  Who knows?  Maybe they're somewhat right! 

scott i made my best strength gains ever training that way, but had  a couple bad injuries which were my fault i was young and didnt warm up properly.

i wouldnt train this way year round though .

[The Scott]

scott i made my best strength gains ever training that way, but had  a couple bad injuries which were my fault i was young and didnt warm up properly.

i wouldnt train this way year round though .

I agree.  Brief and intense is the best way to go but proper warmup is needed to avoid injury.

In the beginning, I trained 6 days a week for 2 or more hours as that is what I read "the champs" did.  I upped it to twice a day for up to 5 hours total a day.  One day I looked at my life and decided I did not want to be a "Mr. Anything" as one, I did not possess the necessary long/low muscle insertions in my calves  and two, I needed to get an education and a better job.  Plus the guys at the original Gold's showed me it would take drugs and I wasn't really too keen on that.

They were very honest about that aspect and I will never forget Ken Waller laughing and then smiling as I bought a XXX Gold's tank top and told him I'd grow into it.  Good times and good memories.  Waller and Franco were very kind to a 6' 1", 120 lb. kid that day.  And later on Mike Mentzer showed me that a decent physique is well within reach but that reach should also include a balanced life.   I like to think that if he had just avoided the amphetamines he might have come out ahead.

[PJim]

Well done!  When I trained my hardest via HIT, I would nearly pass out on the floor after I finished.   I literally did not want to move.  It can be difficult to get a training partner as most think you are crazy to train like that.  Who knows?  Maybe they're somewhat right! 

I think you need somebody who has a very similar strength level also. You need somebody who can really feel when you've put 100 percent into a negative for example and have absolutely nothing left.

Would've loved to have had the opportunity to speak with Mike. I can't imagine the amount of people he has inspired to simply think critically about what they are actually doing in the gym, as opposed to just mindlessly going through the motions; regardless of whether you follow his method.