Mike Mentzer - Discussion

[bigbychoices]

"weider principals"  lmao.   joe tried to take credit for everything ever done by any bodybuilder ever!! every system was a 'weider" system.  when i was a kid i beleieved the crap too.  and mentzer went from 199 to 215 in 3 days AFTER  contest!  big freakin deal. carb deplete carb load and bam there you go. lol . gain a pound a day with crash weight gain formula number 7. lol .. so many fakes half truths lies and being deceitful  from uncle joe and the gang. 

[bigbychoices]

oh also in the article mike says his arm was 19 1/4 inch cold.  mike himself always said it was never bigger than 18 5/8 . see how these mags inflate everything.

[BIG AL MCKECHNIE]

I trained at Golds, Hampton Drive Venice regularly when I was on secondment to the San Diego Navy base during my RAF days and saw Mike and Ray train plenty of times. They didn't train any differently than the other guys. I remember they trained with Sammir Bannout quite often.

[ratherbebig]

back in the early 80s i used to consult mike as a personal trainer, we didnt have cordless back then so when i was training and he was on the phone i could only reach one of the machines, i saw some tremendous growth to the back of my shoulders, sadly the rest of my body remained the same.

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[DarthSidious]

like i said thats when sergio got serious about his training and nutrition etc. he didnt know much about either. he was a genetic freak for sure. he could of grown just watching people workout.. jones always wanted to say how sergios arm was bigger than his head etc  lmao.  he had one pic where sergio was tilting his head and holdng his arm flexed etc to create the illusion it was and even in that pic it didnt really look like it. lol.and for all of you to know im 53 years old. ive been around this game a long time. been lifting since 14 and before that actually at home i was 12. so yes i do know a few of these guys ( no never met sergio personally)  mentzers, viator ,joe gold ,lee priest, leroy colbert,mike ohearn, barbarians samir ,pearl and a few others.

I didn't mean to diss you, brother.  All I'm saying is that I knew Mike and can only relate what he told me.  That includes what he said about his teenaged training which involved fairly low volume.  Since he was stacked by the time he was 18/19 and before he joined the USAF, I do feel it is misleading to say he built his base with Arnoldesque volume workouts.  Unlike you, a bunch of people did NOT know him and they mindlessly repeat rumors and hearsay like it is God's honest truth.

By the way, if I didn't make it clear, I know the whole Colorado thing was purely an exercise in muscle memory.  I thought I even said as much.

Now, I do dispute the rumors that Casey was sneaking in extra workouts (the only person I ever know to assert that was Jeff Everson, and he was firmly in Weider's pocket), but in spite of Jones' blustering, Mike also told me that Viator was using something throughout that so-called "experiment."

[Disgusted]

Look I'm a fan of Casey and Mike but this Colorado experiment is total bullshit. Take a look at the before and after pics. We are supposed to believe that this is a 63.21 pound of muscle gain with a 17.93 decrease in body fat? LMAO not a fucking chance. In the before pics Casey is very lean and I really don't see much if any fat loss in the after pics. Remember that anyone who gains even 10 pounds of muscle while being lean will "look" leaner because of the muscle gained. The skin will stretch and you will see the muscle better. Casey looks to be just as lean in both pics. So lets break this down.

Casey started at a body weight of

166.87 at 13.8 % BF So at this weight he is 143.8 pounds lean.  

He ended the experiment at a body weight of

212.15 so if he lost 17.93 pounds of body fat he would be at 2.4% bf in the end photos  

So this would put him at 207 pounds lean and Casey did all of this while eating large amounts of food that they never really kept track of since this was just an experiment about training.    They never really bother to explain this fat loss. If you look at Casey in pics of him at the height of his competition career during his Olympia days he is bigger and more ripped so I'll have to assume he was close to zero % BF on stage with even more muscle while dieting on 1500 calories which he stated he was eating in the interview I read once Musclemag. The numbers don't add up as far as him being 2.4% BF and the photos and amounts of food supposedly eaten. I'd say he gained about 20 pounds of muscle at the most and BF levels stayed the same.

[pellius]

I didn't mean to diss you, brother.  All I'm saying is that I knew Mike and can only relate what he told me.  That includes what he said about his teenaged training which involved fairly low volume.  Since he was stacked by the time he was 18/19 and before he joined the USAF, I do feel it is misleading to say he built his base with Arnoldesque volume workouts.  Unlike you, a bunch of people did NOT know him and they mindlessly repeat rumors and hearsay like it is God's honest truth.

By the way, if I didn't make it clear, I know the whole Colorado thing was purely an exercise in muscle memory.  I thought I even said as much.

Now, I do dispute the rumors that Casey was sneaking in extra workouts (the only person I ever know to assert that was Jeff Everson, and he was firmly in Weider's pocket), but in spite of Jones' blustering, Mike also told me that Viator was using something throughout that so-called "experiment."

x2.

Also, you can just look at both Mike and Ray during their early days with Jones. They were noticeably smaller and less developed.

[pellius]

Look I'm a fan of Casey and Mike but this Colorado experiment is total bullshit. Take a look at the before and after pics. We are supposed to believe that this is a 63.21 pound of muscle gain with a 17.93 decrease in body fat? LMAO not a fucking chance. In the before pics Casey is very lean and I really don't see much if any fat loss in the after pics. Remember that anyone who gains even 10 pounds of muscle while being lean will "look" leaner because of the muscle gained. The skin will stretch and you will see the muscle better. Casey looks to be just as lean in both pics. So lets break this down.

Casey started at a body weight of

166.87 at 13.8 % BF So at this weight he is 143.8 pounds lean.  

He ended the experiment at a body weight of

212.15 so if he lost 17.93 pounds of body fat he would be at 2.4% bf in the end photos  

So this would put him at 207 pounds lean and Casey did all of this while eating large amounts of food that they never really kept track of since this was just an experiment about training.    They never really bother to explain this fat loss. If you look at Casey in pics of him at the height of his competition career during his Olympia days he is bigger and more ripped so I'll have to assume he was close to zero % BF on stage with even more muscle while dieting on 1500 calories which he stated he was eating in the interview I read once Musclemag. The numbers don't add up as far as him being 2.4% BF and the photos and amounts of food supposedly eaten. I'd say he gained about 20 pounds of muscle at the most and BF levels stayed the same.

This is probably the best point made regarding the veracity of the experiment. Even back in the late 1970s my inexperienced eyes questioned the claim that Casey gained 63 pounds of lean muscle in a month muscle memory or not. The pics aren't even close in comparison.

[dj181]

Look I'm a fan of Casey and Mike but this Colorado experiment is total bullshit. Take a look at the before and after pics. We are supposed to believe that this is a 63.21 pound of muscle gain with a 17.93 decrease in body fat? LMAO not a fucking chance. In the before pics Casey is very lean and I really don't see much if any fat loss in the after pics. Remember that anyone who gains even 10 pounds of muscle while being lean will "look" leaner because of the muscle gained. The skin will stretch and you will see the muscle better. Casey looks to be just as lean in both pics. So lets break this down.

Casey started at a body weight of

166.87 at 13.8 % BF So at this weight he is 143.8 pounds lean.  

He ended the experiment at a body weight of

212.15 so if he lost 17.93 pounds of body fat he would be at 2.4% bf in the end photos  

So this would put him at 207 pounds lean and Casey did all of this while eating large amounts of food that they never really kept track of since this was just an experiment about training.    They never really bother to explain this fat loss. If you look at Casey in pics of him at the height of his competition career during his Olympia days he is bigger and more ripped so I'll have to assume he was close to zero % BF on stage with even more muscle while dieting on 1500 calories which he stated he was eating in the interview I read once Musclemag. The numbers don't add up as far as him being 2.4% BF and the photos and amounts of food supposedly eaten. I'd say he gained about 20 pounds of muscle at the most and BF levels stayed the same.

I said that about 10 posts earlier brosef

[dj181]

also gaysey wasn't 16-17% at the start he was much leaner, more like 7-8% and he wasn't sub-3 at the end either, again like 7-8%

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[OlympiaGym]

Lol at Mentzer being "intelligent." Where's the evidence of that? He wrote a couple of articles where he peddled some unverified bro-science and sprinkled in a few Ayn Rand quotes. What degrees did he earn? What peer-reviewed papers did he author? He was a short guy with good athletic genetics for strength who took a lot of drugs. There are tons of gymnasts, wrestlers, etc., with similar genetics who could look like Mentzer with the right combination of drugs and self-discipline. He's nothing special.

[ratherbebig]

[dj181]

^^^^^ where is the second guys ttriceps 

[PJim]

Lol at Mentzer being "intelligent." Where's the evidence of that? He wrote a couple of articles where he peddled some unverified bro-science and sprinkled in a few Ayn Rand quotes. What degrees did he earn? What peer-reviewed papers did he author? He was a short guy with good athletic genetics for strength who took a lot of drugs. There are tons of gymnasts, wrestlers, etc., with similar genetics who could look like Mentzer with the right combination of drugs and self-discipline. He's nothing special.

There are tenfold the people doing gear and training nowadays as opposed to Mentzer's heyday - show me an example of somebody nowadays with a similar build please? Mike's got a unique build, instantly recognisable to anybody who knows a bit about Bodybuilding/training history. His own brother was built nothing like him, so I seriously doubt you can find 'tons' of very similar builds.

[pellius]

Lol at Mentzer being "intelligent." Where's the evidence of that? He wrote a couple of articles where he peddled some unverified bro-science and sprinkled in a few Ayn Rand quotes. What degrees did he earn? What peer-reviewed papers did he author? He was a short guy with good athletic genetics for strength who took a lot of drugs. There are tons of gymnasts, wrestlers, etc., with similar genetics who could look like Mentzer with the right combination of drugs and self-discipline. He's nothing special.

Do you consider yourself intelligent?

[ratherbebig]

^^^^^ where is the second guys ttriceps 

dont worry, when he's done as a gymnast he will add some tricep pushdowns and he will be ready for olympia stage

[ratherbebig]

His own brother was built nothing like him

huh?

[OlympiaGym]

There are tenfold the people doing gear and training nowadays as opposed to Mentzer's heyday - show me an example of somebody nowadays with a similar build please? Mike's got a unique build, instantly recognisable to anybody who knows a bit about Bodybuilding/training history. His own brother was built nothing like him, so I seriously doubt you can find 'tons' of very similar builds.

Of course Mentzer has a "unique build." Every single person on earth does. Mentzer had good genetics and the self-discipline to diet.

You're right. A lot more kids are on gear today than back in Mentzer's time. However, most have shit genetics and are only noticeable because of the drugs.Bodybuilding remains a niche hobby that is hidden away from the general public which perceives it as nothing more than a laughable sideshow. Why would a D-1 college athlete in gymnastics, wrestling, swimming, football, etc., start injecting himself everyday to be a competitive bodybuilder? Instead of being a hero to his family and friends he'll be an outcast.

Bodybuilding is genetics, drugs, and self-discipline. High intensity training, high volume, low volume, etc., etc., is a all BS. Tax the muscle once or twice a week and eat reasonably well. If you have the right genetics and take the right drugs you can look like a bodybuilder. If you are willing to suffer and not eat for a couple of months you can get ripped.

[pellius]

There are tenfold the people doing gear and training nowadays as opposed to Mentzer's heyday - show me an example of somebody nowadays with a similar build please? Mike's got a unique build, instantly recognisable to anybody who knows a bit about Bodybuilding/training history. His own brother was built nothing like him, so I seriously doubt you can find 'tons' of very similar builds.

X2. There's a reason why a Mentzer discussion goes on forever. Not many bbers had such an impact as he did.

[OlympiaGym]

Do you consider yourself intelligent?

I think I'm of average intelligence.

[ratherbebig]

X2. There's a reason why a Mentzer discussion goes on forever. Not many bbers had such an impact as he did.

the reason people still care about mentzer is because he looks like a action figure and people obsessing over bodybuilding are still 12 years old mentally