Author Topic: Mike Mentzer - Discussion  (Read 418906 times)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #650 on: July 03, 2017, 01:35:13 PM »
 :)

oldschoolfan

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #651 on: July 03, 2017, 01:36:18 PM »
that is a great pic of mike

dj181

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #652 on: July 04, 2017, 05:26:22 AM »
first of all what the "champs" wrote in the magazines ( most were ghost written anyways) and the truth was always different. they wrote what would sell. what they wanted people to believe they did or ate or whatever. the mags wanted us to think our heros were super humans trained for hours everyday used weights heavy enough to crush a truck etc. used vitamins and powders. used rubber bands and cables when traveling  wore stupid type tank tops and wrist bracelets too. lol so when mike said he trained this way or that it was about promoting his courses. t shirts and get seminars etc. what and how he trained and most trained was always a bit different then what they said. one time i was talking with tom prince in golds and he was looking at a muscle mag and it had him training chest. he was laughing. i said whats so funny.  he showed me the mag and said i got 7000 bucks for this article.  i dont do anything like this in my training!!!  so remember what they say in the mags is to sell. period. mike didnt use "hit" like he wanted people to believe. he did the pryamid sets and only counted the last set as a working set. so 4-5 sets per exercise like everyone else but only counted one. often he would do a few more sets. and when he was asked why he did more than just one set his response was " i do it for assurance". 

do those warm up sets before the last set to failure do anything go aid muscle gain?

according to mike and AJ they don't and the only set that creates gains is hat blast set to failure

also did mike look better and fuller in the pecs in 76-77 when he was training 3 times per week?

NO do us a favor please, post up a shot or 2 from 76-77 when he was doing 3 day per week and another shot or two from 78-80 when he switched to training each part twice a week

thanks bro

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #653 on: July 04, 2017, 07:20:36 AM »
 :)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #654 on: July 04, 2017, 07:22:17 AM »
 :)

bigbychoices

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #655 on: July 04, 2017, 07:23:01 AM »
exercise alone doesnt change the body much when your already advanced. its the DRUGS  excuse me the response to DRUGS. and again just cuz someone says they trained 1 bodypart a week or everyday doesnt make it the TRUTH. anyone who believes this crap is retarded and im tired of saying how mike really trained. people will still believe what they have read in a magazine. or even heard in his seminars. post all the pics of anytime in his life it doesnt change how he trained and dieted and what drugs he took to get there. look at arnold. when he wasnt getting ready for a show he shrunk he could of easily came out with a course ( he did sell courses too by the way) that said gain 60 pounds in 30 days. train 2 hours a day 6 days a week and go from 170 to 230 and win mr olympia. was it the "training" or the drugs or the bodys response?  mike was a good bodybuilder but he wasnt honest. he did what sold. and people to this day still believe the crap. where are all the so called "hit" clients that mike had? have they won anything? do they ever say i owe it all to mike mentzer? according to mike he had thousands in person and phone consultation clients. if so they should be 500 lbs and 2 percent bodyfat by now. lmfao. case closed. im done commenting about mike. may he rest in peace and ray too. casey as well.

bigbychoices

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #656 on: July 04, 2017, 07:23:36 AM »
that pic is of ray not mike with rachel

Nether Animal

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #657 on: July 04, 2017, 07:34:01 AM »
that pic is of ray not mike with rachel

Is that Rachel?

The Scott

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #658 on: July 04, 2017, 07:36:09 AM »
Is that Rachel?

Yup.  And that is Ray next to her.

dj181

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #659 on: July 04, 2017, 08:33:06 AM »
exercise alone doesnt change the body much when your already advanced. its the DRUGS  excuse me the response to DRUGS. and again just cuz someone says they trained 1 bodypart a week or everyday doesnt make it the TRUTH. anyone who believes this crap is retarded and im tired of saying how mike really trained. people will still believe what they have read in a magazine. or even heard in his seminars. post all the pics of anytime in his life it doesnt change how he trained and dieted and what drugs he took to get there. look at arnold. when he wasnt getting ready for a show he shrunk he could of easily came out with a course ( he did sell courses too by the way) that said gain 60 pounds in 30 days. train 2 hours a day 6 days a week and go from 170 to 230 and win mr olympia. was it the "training" or the drugs or the bodys response?  mike was a good bodybuilder but he wasnt honest. he did what sold. and people to this day still believe the crap. where are all the so called "hit" clients that mike had? have they won anything? do they ever say i owe it all to mike mentzer? according to mike he had thousands in person and phone consultation clients. if so they should be 500 lbs and 2 percent bodyfat by now. lmfao. case closed. im done commenting about mike. may he rest in peace and ray too. casey as well.

before he got all loony with this training once a week horseshit he was training clients 3 days a week on a 3 was split

this was in the early 9th

he got Aaron baker on that program and he gained lots of quaility muscle

you can see it when yo compare Aaron first WBF contest and the second

hey nether animal post up a comparison shot of Baker in the first WBF show to the second WBF show please

I know you have them on your hard drive brosef

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #660 on: July 04, 2017, 09:45:11 AM »
 :)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #661 on: July 04, 2017, 10:57:40 AM »
 :)

Vince B

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #662 on: July 04, 2017, 11:38:07 AM »
Here is a photo of Ray and Rachel. Ray told me things fell apart between them mainly because of her being more religious. Every time Ray did a seminar some woman would fancy him. So he did have appeal to them.

I edited the photo a bit.

bigbychoices

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #663 on: July 04, 2017, 02:03:08 PM »
yup thats mostly it. she was a religious freak . but not so religious ray ( and few others) didnt give it to her pretty good WITHOUT having to marry her.  now back to mike and aron baker. how you look at a contest isnt just from your training. its mostly from dieting. you can be good and do this workout and look like shit the next time doing the exact same contest.  so training isnt the main thing for that. ( it helps dont get me wrong but carbing is the most beneficial) also so they said they trained this way did they say how much they increased their drugs? or switched them around? NO THEY DONT/ my point again is just cuz they said they trained that way doesnt mean they did.   and the other thread your right  arthur jones and  mike both said the first few sets were a waste of time that you only grow on the last final all out balls to the wall set.  on paper and in theory they are right. but in reality they are not right. yes growth has to be forced. the body doesnt like to change. but you cant grow each and every set of every exercise of every workout. its not possible. the body needs a warm up to move maximum weights. the pyrimade system works great. no warm up? maximum weights? hellloooo injury.  try this start your car drop it in drive floor the pedal and hold it for as long as you can. try this every day. whats gonna happen? same to your body.

Nether Animal

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #664 on: July 04, 2017, 02:05:21 PM »
Yup.  And that is Ray next to her.

Yeah I know that's Ray. I though it was a different girl, for some reason it kinda doesn't look like her smile

dj181

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #665 on: July 04, 2017, 02:16:44 PM »
yep you have to warm up before making an all out effort,  that's a given

I'd also heard that fellas who did do AJ's full body wo 3 times a week made ggains on the legs but not elsewhere so much because they always did do legs first so after that effort their energy/power was shot and they couldn't put the necessary effort into upper body work after that


Eric2

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #666 on: July 04, 2017, 02:25:17 PM »
Best gains I ever made was near 20 years ago when I was 30. I did a MondAy Wednesday Friday program. Chest back on monday, Wednesday legs, Friday shoulders and arms. I never juiced so I feel I needed more rest because of that fact. I did a couple warm up sets for each exercise then 3 to 5 working sets after the warm up.
h

Vince B

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #667 on: July 04, 2017, 05:32:41 PM »
first of all what the "champs" wrote in the magazines ( most were ghost written anyways) and the truth was always different. they wrote what would sell. what they wanted people to believe they did or ate or whatever. the mags wanted us to think our heros were super humans trained for hours everyday used weights heavy enough to crush a truck etc. used vitamins and powders. used rubber bands and cables when traveling  wore stupid type tank tops and wrist bracelets too. lol so when mike said he trained this way or that it was about promoting his courses. t shirts and get seminars etc. what and how he trained and most trained was always a bit different then what they said. one time i was talking with tom prince in golds and he was looking at a muscle mag and it had him training chest. he was laughing. i said whats so funny.  he showed me the mag and said i got 7000 bucks for this article.  i dont do anything like this in my training!!!  so remember what they say in the mags is to sell. period. mike didnt use "hit" like he wanted people to believe. he did the pryamid sets and only counted the last set as a working set. so 4-5 sets per exercise like everyone else but only counted one. often he would do a few more sets. and when he was asked why he did more than just one set his response was " i do it for assurance".  

This is an over statement. Most of what was published in bodybuilding magazines was what writers and champions believed at the time. If you read magazines from the 1940s you would know that. When we look back we now know that many of the ideas and theories were not quite right. For example, everyone believed that doing twists with a broom handle or bar would result in a smaller waist. In 1968 I tested that idea and did half an hour of twists a day for two weeks. Result? No difference in waist size. So I knew that was false.

Nutrition ideas were also false. We were encouraged to take vitamin supplements and more protein. I was at UBC in the early 1960s and Lionel Pugh, a professor, asked me if I took supplements. I told him I took vitamin B complex and C. He said, "The sewers of Vancouver are filled with vitamins!" That embarrassed me so I headed to the university library and studied nutrition. He was right, bodybuilders took too many supplements. Everything we needed was provided by a balanced diet and more food. There was no need for extra protein like all the magazines said. In those days we believed we needed more protein because muscles were composed of protein and other things. Well, there is more water in muscles than protein! So should we drink more water?

I never saw Mike train but I know what Ray did. He lived at my place for a year and worked at my gyms then. I will outline his method in another post.



tommywishbone

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #668 on: July 04, 2017, 06:13:07 PM »
first of all what the "champs" wrote in the magazines ( most were ghost written anyways) and the truth was always different. they wrote what would sell. what they wanted people to believe they did or ate or whatever. the mags wanted us to think our heros were super humans trained for hours everyday used weights heavy enough to crush a truck etc. used vitamins and powders. used rubber bands and cables when traveling  wore stupid type tank tops and wrist bracelets too. lol so when mike said he trained this way or that it was about promoting his courses. t shirts and get seminars etc. what and how he trained and most trained was always a bit different then what they said. one time i was talking with tom prince in golds and he was looking at a muscle mag and it had him training chest. he was laughing. i said whats so funny.  he showed me the mag and said i got 7000 bucks for this article.  i dont do anything like this in my training!!!  so remember what they say in the mags is to sell. period. mike didnt use "hit" like he wanted people to believe. he did the pryamid sets and only counted the last set as a working set. so 4-5 sets per exercise like everyone else but only counted one. often he would do a few more sets. and when he was asked why he did more than just one set his response was " i do it for assurance". 

LOL! Every writer of every single article in totality, in any bodybuilding mag ever published never made $7,000.
a

Vince B

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #669 on: July 04, 2017, 07:02:07 PM »
LOL! Every writer of every single article in totality, in any bodybuilding mag ever published never made $7,000.

I wasn't paid for my articles in most muscle magazines. Photos got peanuts. Two articles that were published in IronMan in 2000 and 2001 earned me a subscription for two years. That was okay.

So I doubt anyone was paid much by Weider, either. He had a reputation of not paying. Dave Draper sued Joe but settled before going to court. We all felt Dave missed out on getting much more.

I think Joe would give muscle guys space in his magazines as payment. Editors were not paid much either. It was all a pipedream.

The Scott

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #670 on: July 04, 2017, 07:22:03 PM »
This is an over statement. Most of what was published in bodybuilding magazines was what writers and champions believed at the time. If you read magazines from the 1940s you would know that. When we look back we now know that many of the ideas and theories were not quite right. For example, everyone believed that doing twists with a broom handle or bar would result in a smaller waist. In 1968 I tested that idea and did half an hour of twists a day for two weeks. Result? No difference in waist size. So I knew that was false.

Nutrition ideas were also false. We were encouraged to take vitamin supplements and more protein. I was at UBC in the early 1960s and Lionel Pugh, a professor, asked me if I took supplements. I told him I took vitamin B complex and C. He said, "The sewers of Vancouver are filled with vitamins!" That embarrassed me so I headed to the university library and studied nutrition. He was right, bodybuilders took too many supplements. Everything we needed was provided by a balanced diet and more food. There was no need for extra protein like all the magazines said. In those days we believed we needed more protein because muscles were composed of protein and other things. Well, there is more water in muscles than protein! So should we drink more water?

I never saw Mike train but I know what Ray did. He lived at my place for a year and worked at my gyms then. I will outline his method in another post.




I saw the Mentzers and Viator train together in the late 70s at the original Gold's.  Unless they were putting on an act they trained as they promoted themselves doing.

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #671 on: July 04, 2017, 07:22:39 PM »
Ray's midsection looks much better.


Vince B

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #672 on: July 04, 2017, 10:25:31 PM »
When Ray was in Sydney he gave seminars and also conducted two training camps at two of my gyms. Had two gyms then. He trained a couple of bodybuilders and one made good gains doing what Ray said.

Essentially you train body parts twice a week....once directly and once indirectly. He would alternate push and pull movements and combine chest with biceps and back with triceps done on different days. On back days the biceps are getting an indirect workout. On chest days the triceps are getting an indirect workout. Legs were on the day between. Sometimes he did shoulders and calves on the Saturday. He surely didn't do what I would say was volume training. His protocols were a challenge to finish and most people found that method too difficult and taxing. Ray and I agreed that to stimulate hypertrophy you had to exhaust the muscle and the symptoms were the same no matter how you achieved it. Ray's method got there quicker than mine. What I found was that almost all the champs needed many, many near maximal sets to get huge muscles. Ray boasted that he could exhaust a muscle in one rep. No one took him up on his challenge. I suspect that 'rep' would be sustained, etc.

Ray was quite knowledgeable about how to do exercises. Hand positions and that sort of thing made a difference so he watched for those things when helping others. I recall his changing my hand position on an exercise at Golds Gym in Venice in 1991. I was doing chest presses on a Hammer machine. Oh, about machines. For some strange reason few people used Nautilus at Golds Venice. They were in the second room so easy to access even in busy times. I guess there was a rebound from what Arthur Jones wrote so most of the muscleheads used free weights or equipment in the main gym area.

Ray stayed at my place for about a year back in 87-88. Kathy and their daughter, Dagny, stayed longer as Ray moved out. I had introduced him to Pam who he eventually married. They all returned to LA in 88.

One day when I was training triceps I finished up using a heavy stack for lying triceps extensions. Ray saw what I was doing and without any warm up proceeded to duplicate my set. After he finished he rubbed his elbows. Silly of him to not warm his elbows up. I guess he figured he was much stronger than me so could handle the weight with ease. Not so. I had been training for a while on that exercise so was able to handle more weight than anyone else in the gym in that movement. Ray was a big guy. Muscle for muscle one of the biggest guys I have seen. Somehow he doesn't look that big in photos.

One day at Golds I introduced Ray to Paul Dillet. Paul was weighing 290 that day and even though Ray was over 260 he looked small beside Paul. Afterwards he had to mention how ugly Paul's veins were. He was amazed that I had met more people than he had in the gym and he lived there. Well, Ray didn't go out of his way to talk to others. He just wanted to be left alone.

pellius

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #673 on: July 05, 2017, 12:32:51 AM »
I was also training at Gold's in 1991 and considered Dillet the biggest bber I have ever seen in person.

He just seemed like a different species from another planet. He also looked intimidating with that Frankenstein head.

I was also surprised at how easy he trained. Never really pushed himself and just kind of went through the motions.

bigbychoices

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Re: Mike Mentzer - Discussion
« Reply #674 on: July 05, 2017, 05:39:53 AM »
you basically said the same thing i said about the nutrition training supplements etc. magazines pushed the stuff told us our champs were using this and that so we would buy it too. did they take it? most didnt and still dont. it was used to sell and make money. but we believed them because it was in the magazines and we thought it had to be true. lol   in reality we dont need them eat food. we dont need alot pf protein or vitamins but the mags wants us to buy their products ( even though some claim they dont own the supplements. lol ) when tom got paid it wasnt weider he was not under contract with weider it was actually muscle mag if i remember correctly.  he had another mag i think iron man not sure and said he got 2000 for the workout in that one that he didnt do either. he was laughing about them. again im going off what he said i dont know for sure how much he got but thats what he said.  and yes dillet was a lazy bodybuilder but responds very well to drugs. oops i mean his "electric muscle machine"  lmao. you guys remember that. him trying to sell that was like mentzer selling his crap. lol maybe worse. yes it was worse cuz mentzers could actually work ( for a while anyway)