Blue Stars and DOMS.

[Vince B]

I, for one, would relish the opportunity to try the supinator. And I have to say, the machines that you have produced look exceptionally well made. The proof is in the pudding with these things. I recently tried a lat pulldown machine in a hotel in Madrid, never seen one like it before, best damn lat machine i ever used. Made the one at my local gym seem amateurish.

My lat machines have 300 or 330 pounds on the stacks. Linear Bearings and plenty of stainless steel handles to choose from.

My biceps machine is something new. I get my biceps sore every hard workout on them. Can't do that on the Nautilus Biceps Machine.

You would think bodybuilders would be delighted to try it. Nope, most are dopes and stick

with free weights. Read some of the comments in this thread and be ashamed of so many ignorant individuals.

[BSN]

We had Ray and girlfriend Kathy staying at our place then Bev and Steve came to stay as well. I drove them around Sydney and here they are at

Bondi Beach. Roz and I slept on the sofa while Bev and Steve had our king size waterbed. Before they left I told Steve I would stay at his place

if I ever visited New York. The jerk replied, "Don't bother!"

What a jerk..

[polychronopolous]

Arnold, Arthur Jones and Goatboy were all far superior in their respective fields than Vince B ever was.

[Vince B]

Arnold, Arthur Jones and Goatboy were all far superior in their respective fields than Vince B ever was.

Goatboy was good at what? Shit stirring. LOL!

Arnold never owed a gym or taught high school. Neither did Arthur Jones. Goodboy was an anonymous entity.

I graduated from three universities and have a MEd from Sydney University. Arnold and Goatboy definitely

didn't make any gym equipment. My members know that my machines are superior to the Nautilus ones.

Ray Mentzer had to admit mine were smoother than Nautilus. They have to be because the linear bearings have

a low co-efficient of friction. Only Goatboy ever posted on Getbig.

[pellius]

Vince, you still have not addressed the issue that I have brought up here, as I have elsewhere, and as others have as well.

You contend that DOMS is a necessary condition for muscle hypertrophy. I presented a study, a peer reviewed study published in The Journal of Physiology , that claims the exact opposite. That being in a state of DOMS prevents muscle hypertrophy and the subjects lost both strength and muscle size. Only after DOMS did strength and size increase. Objective evidence is presented to support their claims.

You, not surprisingly, dismissed the study though unable to refute it which suggest a personal bias over the search for truth.

Now, how about you? What evidence do you have to support your theory? Scientific evidence which you insist on from others. Some years back you did take on the challenge of demonstrating effectiveness of your theory using on yourself. I backed you 100% even though I was routinely mocked for supporting you. We all remember that that experiment ended in abject failure.

Please present your evidence that exceeds the study I presented as you consider it insufficient and lacking.

"Resistance training-induced changes in integrated myofibrillar protein synthesis are related to hypertrophy only after attenuation of muscle damage"

 

[bigmc]

vince only answers people who kiss his ass

truth is he is morbidly obese

and his machined are over engineered

the best engineering is simple and cost effective

fact

[Vince B]

Vince, you still have not addressed the issue that I have brought up here, as I have elsewhere, and as others have as well.

You contend that DOMS is a necessary condition for muscle hypertrophy. I presented a study, a peer reviewed study published in The Journal of Physiology , that claims the exact opposite. That being in a state of DOMS prevents muscle hypertrophy and the subjects lost both strength and muscle size. Only after DOMS did strength and size increase. Objective evidence is presented to support their claims.

You, not surprisingly, dismissed the study though unable to refute it which suggest a personal bias over the search for truth.

Now, how about you? What evidence do you have to support your theory? Scientific evidence which you insist on from others. Some years back you did take on the challenge of demonstrating effectiveness of your theory using on yourself. I backed you 100% even though I was routinely mocked for supporting you. We all remember that that experiment ended in abject failure.

Please present your evidence that exceeds the study I presented as you consider it insufficient and lacking.

"Resistance training-induced changes in integrated myofibrillar protein synthesis are related to hypertrophy only after attenuation of muscle damage"

 

Pellius, please reread my replies above. I don't claim you need DOMS to grow. Most bodybuilders grow without any of that delayed pain. Of course they grow slowly and most plateau.

What I found was that if you are training hard and somehow trigger DOMS then you will grow. If you keep the muscle in a state of soreness you will continue growing...rapidly.

I would have to read the details of the study to see what protocols were done. That makes a big difference. Why I dismiss this study is because it doesn't apply to bodybuilders

already training hard in gyms all over the world.

Remember when we debated protein requirement? Many believe you need extra protein. Mike Mentzer and I argue that you do not and will get sufficient without supplements.

So who is right about this requirement? Guys who do a lot of things daily and are lean won't be able to gain much size. So how would you know if my theory is false?

I don't expect internet experts to try anything at all. Much too difficult and confronting. Who out there wants to abandon his precious beliefs about lifting weights? If you can

be mistaken about things like bodybuilding then what does that say about your education and knowledge?

Like I said, you have to be an expert in hypertrophy to know another expert. So I am not getting very far with the intellects assembled here!

Btw, there is a study that suggests that DOMS indicates hypertrophy. Will find it another day. Weekend here.

[bigmc]

poor deluded vince

stalking round his empty gyms looking for customers to patronise

how he longs to be recognised as a pioneer

he has invented is a machine with 5000 moving parts to do bicep curls

poor vince

[ratherbebig]

so i reckon the doms theory is more for the advanced bodybuilder, someone who pushed himself as far as he can go using traditional routines/protocols?

[FitnessFrenzy]

Hi Basile. If I would like to walk around manly beach and take some photos of the sexy sheilas and lads, and not draw too much attention to myself, do you have some tips for how I can pull that off?

[Vince B]

Hi Basile. If I would like to walk around manly beach and take some photos of the sexy sheilas and lads, and not draw too much attention to myself, do you have some tips for how I can pull that off?

Lot of sleazy entities on Getbig. No homo here.

[Vince B]

so i reckon the doms theory is more for the advanced bodybuilder, someone who pushed himself as far as he can go using traditional routines/protocols?

I am talking about physiology so my theory applies to everyone doing resistance training.

[bigmc]

Hi Basile. If I would like to walk around manly beach and take some photos of the sexy sheilas and lads, and not draw too much attention to myself, do you have some tips for how I can pull that off?

are you saying there is a sinister undertone to vinces photography

[pellius]

Pellius, please reread my replies above. I don't claim you need DOMS to grow. Most bodybuilders grow without any of that delayed pain. Of course they grow slowly and most plateau.

What I found was that if you are training hard and somehow trigger DOMS then you will grow. If you keep the muscle in a state of soreness you will continue growing...rapidly.

I would have to read the details of the study to see what protocols were done. That makes a big difference. Why I dismiss this study is because it doesn't apply to bodybuilders

already training hard in gyms all over the world.

Remember when we debated protein requirement? Many believe you need extra protein. Mike Mentzer and I argue that you do not and will get sufficient without supplements.

So who is right about this requirement? Guys who do a lot of things daily and are lean won't be able to gain much size. So how would you know if my theory is false?

I don't expect internet experts to try anything at all. Much too difficult and confronting. Who out there wants to abandon his precious beliefs about lifting weights? If you can

be mistaken about things like bodybuilding then what does that say about your education and knowledge?

Like I said, you have to be an expert in hypertrophy to know another expert. So I am not getting very far with the intellects assembled here!

Btw, there is a study that suggests that DOMS indicates hypertrophy. Will find it another day. Weekend here.

So still no evidence that DOMS causes hypertrophy. I just want it here for the record.

Why does it matter what protocols were used? As long as the protocol stressed the muscle to the point where DOMS occur why does it matter if it was squats, leg press, lunges, extensions...?

And why doesn't this study apply to bodybuilders? Jones did a lot of his studies and experiments on students at West Point. Whether you call yourself a bodybuilder, power lifter, physique homo... the principles of resistant training apply to all. You are still a human being with identical biological and physiological qualities.  Jones said that. Mentzer said that. You said that. If the principles are sound they apply to all.

And about sufficient protein. This is where common sense applies. If one is a 180 pounds and wants to gain 30 pounds of pure muscle are you arguing that one does not have to increase his protein intake? Of course he will have to increase his intake of everything. You can't gain muscle without protein. Mentzer and Jones said you don't need as much protein as the Weider crew and conventional wisdom claimed. Viator was force fed during the Colorado experiment and just the dramatic increase in calories automatically caused him to meet the protein requirements to gain so much muscle in such a short period of time.

Not needing as much protein as the industry claimed is not the same as not needing more.

[Tapeworm]

They have to be because the linear bearings have a low co-efficient of friction.

Um, not trying to hack on you but linear roller bearings are used where there's a radial load.  They provide low friction... under load.  That's what bearings do.

Weight stacks are vertical and are lifted plumb.  There's no load bearing on the guide rods.  That's why no one uses linear bearings and hardened rods for weight stack guides.  Nothing's borne on them.  They're guides.

If you really want to use bearings you'd put them in the pulleys instead of the usual bushings.  Yes, I'm certain that you did.

Maybe you just dig the whooshing sound.  Ta na ka.

[Vince B]

Um, not trying to hack on you but linear roller bearings are used where there's a radial load.  They provide low friction... under load.  That's what bearings do.

Weight stacks are vertical and are lifted plumb.  There's no load bearing on the guide rods.  That's why no one uses linear bearings and hardened rods for weight stack guides.  Nothing's borne on them.  They're guides.

If you really want to use bearings you'd put them in the pulleys instead of the usual bushings.  Yes, I'm certain that you did.

Maybe you just dig the whooshing sound.  Ta na ka.

Who said anything about roller bearings? The ones I use have rows of ball bearings. I believe I was the first to use them in Smith machines.

[FitnessFrenzy]

are you saying there is a sinister undertone to vinces photography

I am saying that if you need fetish photos done in sydney, you know who to call...

[bigmc]

I am saying that if you need fetish photos done in sydney, you know who to call...

he has that creepy look nailed down

[bigmc]

this is living proof that vince is growing like a weed utilizing  his patented doms and ballbearings method of training

[Tapeworm]

Who said anything about roller bearings? The ones I use have rows of ball bearings. I believe I was the first to use them in Smith machines.

Right.  Rolling element bearings.  Linear shaft ball roller bearings.  You don't need 'em.

[FitnessFrenzy]

he has that creepy look nailed down

would love to be that tree.

[Vince B]

So still no evidence that DOMS causes hypertrophy. I just want it here for the record.

Why does it matter what protocols were used? As long as the protocol stressed the muscle to the point where DOMS occur why does it matter if it was squats, leg press, lunges, extensions...?

And why doesn't this study apply to bodybuilders? Jones did a lot of his studies and experiments on students at West Point. Whether you call yourself a bodybuilder, power lifter, physique homo... the principles of resistant training apply to all. You are still a human being with identical biological and physiological qualities.  Jones said that. Mentzer said that. You said that. If the principles are sound they apply to all.

And about sufficient protein. This is where common sense applies. If one is a 180 pounds and wants to gain 30 pounds of pure muscle are you arguing that one does not have to increase his protein intake? Of course he will have to increase his intake of everything. You can't gain muscle without protein. Mentzer and Jones said you don't need as much protein as the Weider crew and conventional wisdom claimed. Viator was force fed during the Colorado experiment and just the dramatic increase in calories automatically caused him to meet the protein requirements to gain so much muscle in such a short period of time.

Not needing as much protein as the industry claimed is not the same as not needing more.

Doms doesn't cause hypertrophy, the workout does. Doms indicates a level of damage in the muscles.

Isn't it obvious that the cited study doesn't apply to bodybuilders already training without doms?

If one eats a balanced diet no extra protein is needed. There will be more protein if more food is eaten to

gain weight.

[Simple Simon]

My lat machines have 300 or 330 pounds on the stacks. Linear Bearings and plenty of stainless steel handles to choose from.

My biceps machine is something new. I get my biceps sore every hard workout on them. Can't do that on the Nautilus Biceps Machine.

You would think bodybuilders would be delighted to try it. Nope, most are dopes and stick

with free weights. Read some of the comments in this thread and be ashamed of so many ignorant individuals.

so you get DOMS but zero growth?

[Vince B]

Right.  Rolling element bearings.  Linear shaft ball roller bearings.  You don't need 'em.

No one needs to bodybuild either.

When I started making gym equipment I wanted the highest quality that was affordable.

[Simple Simon]

No one needs to bodybuild either.

wrong font of peace, gimmick slip up number 3