A320neo VS 737 MAX

[OLKE_TEXAS]

shut the fuck up, I have an ATP

Airplaine transvestite potato?

[Skylge]

Peter Thiel recently made a comment that aerospace innovation has stalled because airplanes haven't changed much since the launch of the 747 back in 1969.  I believe most people would erroneously agree with this statement because they don't understand the kind of innovation the industry wants.  Case in point, the A320neo and the 737 MAX.  These aircraft typify the kind of innovation the customers want.  To say these aircraft are a hit is an understatement.  Their order backlogs are staggering.




A320neo family orders 5,053

737 MAX family orders 3,699

When these aircraft are delivered they will transport more than six million people per day.

"New" planes but the same shitty legroom and eternal time to get on and off. And overcrowded airports, flight times the same as 40 years ago, even less space for trollies etc etc

Progress? Engines are more frugal and pollute less, but still: aviation is one of the major polluters on the planet

[Palumboism]

"New" planes but the same shitty legroom and eternal time to get on and off. And overcrowded airports, flight times the same as 40 years ago, even less space for trollies etc etc

Progress? Engines are more frugal and pollute less, but still: aviation is one of the major polluters on the planet

Airline Ticket Prices Fell 50% in the last 30 Years.

-- In 1974, it was illegal for an airline to charge less than $1,442 in inflation-adjusted dollars for a flight between New York City and Los Angeles. On Kayak you can find one for $278.

-- In 1965, no more than 20 percent of Americans had EVER flown in an airplane. By 2000, 50 percent of the country took at least one round-trip flight a year. The average was two round-trip tickets.

-- The number of air passengers tripled between the 1970s and 2011.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/

Two of the largest orders for the 737 MAX came from Indian airlines
Largest 737 MAX orders:
Lion Air, 201  
SpiceJet, 142  
 
Four of the largest orders for the A320neo came from Asian airlines
Largest A320neo orders:
IndiGo, 430      
AirAsia, 404      
Lion Air, 178      
GoAir, 144  

My point is, flying used to be limited to only the wealthiest Americans and Europeans.  Now anyone in America and Europe can afford to fly, but so can many Indians, and Vietnamese.  

[Palumboism]

"New" planes but the same shitty legroom and eternal time to get on and off. And overcrowded airports, flight times the same as 40 years ago, even less space for trollies etc etc

Progress? Engines are more frugal and pollute less, but still: aviation is one of the major polluters on the planet

Why Airplanes don't fly faster than they did 40 years ago:

The Concorde aircraft could reach speeds of 1300 miles per hour at cruise altitude, but it used 46.85 pounds of fuel for every mile flown and could seat only 100 passengers. Boeing’s new 787 Dreamliner, which has a cruise speed of 648 miles per hour, uses only 18.7 pounds of fuel per mile and can seat 291 passengers.

[The_Punisher]

both the blackbird and Concorde were supersonic planes with Delta wings and were made to Hog on Fuel, Damn, I've love to fly a plane that flies faster than the earth is spinning .....rumors are, there will be a new super sonic commercial plane in a few years from now......Bring it on

[GigantorX]

Why Airplanes don't fly faster than they did 40 years ago:

The Concorde aircraft could reach speeds of 1300 miles per hour at cruise altitude, but it used 46.85 pounds of fuel for every mile flown and could seat only 100 passengers. Boeing’s new 787 Dreamliner, which has a cruise speed of 648 miles per hour, uses only 18.7 pounds of fuel per mile and can seat 291 passengers.

More towards reality the trade-off was between faster speeds or more passengers mixed with better fuel economy/lower operating costs. Before much of this Boeing was going headlong into the Transonic Cruiser before going the 787 route. Which was a win because, as you stated, the 787 can cruise fairly close to Mach 1 and carry a lot of passengers. Great plane, Alan Mullaly gets a gold star.

[Palumboism]

More towards reality the trade-off was between faster speeds or more passengers mixed with better fuel economy/lower operating costs. Before much of this Boeing was going headlong into the Transonic Cruiser before going the 787 route. Which was a win because, as you stated, the 787 can cruise fairly close to Mach 1 and carry a lot of passengers. Great plane, Alan Mullaly gets a gold star.

The secret to Boeing's success is so simple.  They listen to what the customer wants and make it.  Airbus came out with the A380 which very few airlines said they wanted and Boeing came out with the 787 that most airlines wanted.  Now Boeing is working on a 797 for the middle of the market and Airbus is waiting to see what Boeing does so they can copy.

[The_Punisher]

The secret to Boeing's success is so simple.  They listen to what the customer wants and make it.  Airbus came out with the A380 which very few airlines said they wanted and Boeing came out with the 787 that most airlines wanted.  Now Boeing is working on a 797 for the middle of the market and Airbus is waiting to see what Boeing does so they can copy.

I think Airbus was trying to Prove something to Boeing with that A380.....since the 747 has been kicking their asses for decades, Airbus felt like enough is enough and they feel like they can make a Super Jumbo and claim Bragging Rights once and for all.....I heard they're remodifying the A380 to carry more passengers. their sales stalled for almost two years now

[RJ DRIVER]

Airplaine transvestite potato?

Airline Transport Pilot. I have one as well.

[FREAKgeek]

Flew to rehab first class on a Boeing couple a years back. Sat next to Alan's wife, Nicki. it was obvious that she wanted me, but it wasn't the time for such relations. We thew back a couple of pina coladas and she told me that Alan was an arrogant dick and bully to everybody.

[RJ DRIVER]

Delta Air Lines CEO Richard Anderson said Wednesday that wide-body models coming off leases are creating an “aircraft bubble,” offering his airline opportunities to acquire used 777s or A330s on the cheap.

A glut of wide-body models coming off leases is creating an “aircraft bubble,” Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson said Wednesday.
“The aircraft market is going to be ripe for Delta over the course of the next 12 to 36 months,” Anderson said on a conference call after the airline’s third-quarter earnings report. “Prices are going to get lower.”

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-shares-fall-as-delta-ceo-predicts-glut-of-wide-body-jets/

One hundred percent agree.  If you wanted to buy a wide-body recently the best choice is a used 777 or A330 coming off lease.  Delta is by far the best run airline of the big three domestics

Out of curiosity I looked it up.

"I was wrong when I said used 777s were on market for $10M. It was actually $7.7M. We just signed a letter of intent to buy one."
                    -Richard Anderson

Article
https://www.google.com/amp/247wallst.com/aerospace-defense/2015/12/18/delta-buys-used-777-for-7-7-million-sinks-boeing-shares/amp/

[Palumboism]

i live in Hawaii and flew delta lax to Honolulu recently. Great cabin crew but OLD 757 that decided to start vibrating rather weirdly half way across. I asked if they could ask the captain what the problem was and was told they were having trouble getting the engines to run at the same rpm or something to that effect thus there was a harmonic imbalance and bad vibrations.

Was it kind of like this A330 out of Perth? 

I'm sure the maintenance contract on those engines went to the cheapest bidder.

[Palumboism]

Boeing's 737 MAX 10 a big hit at Paris Air Show
By Matthew Rocco

Boeing’s (BA) 737 MAX 10 is a big hit at this week’s Paris Air Show with over a dozen airlines and fleets placing orders for the larger jet.

Boeing introduced its latest jet on Monday, and a flood of orders quickly followed. The aerospace giant received commitments to sell a total of 361 MAX 10s, including 147 new orders and 214 conversions from other models. The MAX 10 accounted for more than half of Boeing’s total order book for the show, as the company sold 571 jets worth $74.8 billion.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/06/22/boeings-737-max-10-big-hit-at-paris-air-show.html


The Max 10 was the star of the Paris Air show this year, logging 361 orders, including an order for 100 from United.

[GigantorX]

The secret to Boeing's success is so simple.  They listen to what the customer wants and make it.  Airbus came out with the A380 which very few airlines said they wanted and Boeing came out with the 787 that most airlines wanted.  Now Boeing is working on a 797 for the middle of the market and Airbus is waiting to see what Boeing does so they can copy.

A380 was a bad move, a plane for the wrong time. Many airports needed to be enlarged just to handle it's wingspan plus they had the initial issues with the wings developing cracks from flight stress much earlier than envisioned. Huge cool plane but airlines require something different.

[The_Punisher]

A380 was a bad move, a plane for the wrong time. Many airports needed to be enlarged just to handle it's wingspan plus they had the initial issues with the wings developing cracks from flight stress much earlier than envisioned. Huge cool plane but airlines require something different.

Honestly, the A380 is the most advanced Super Jumbo in the market right now.....any Captain would be proud to say I fly the A380....I give Airbus Mad Respect for this Mega Plane......they haven't had any major issues with the plane right now, well, except for that incident a couple years ago with one of the Rolls Royce engine, but it was a Rolls Royce issue, not Airbus, they've fixed that ....so far, so good

[The_Punisher]

Airline Transport Pilot. I have one as well.

Damn, Congrats....what kind of Plane you fly?.....they're now asking for co-pilots to have at least 1500 hours to get a license, Thanks, Obama...lol

[RJ DRIVER]

Damn, Congrats....what kind of Plane you fly?.....they're now asking for co-pilots to have at least 1500 hours to get a license, Thanks, Obama...lol

I flew CRJ's, nothing glamorous. I left the industry for family reasons.

[jwb]

Was it kind of like this A330 out of Perth? 

I'm sure the maintenance contract on those engines went to the cheapest bidder.

ha not as bad as that thank god.

[Parker]

Getting a lot mileage out of what are considered buses with wings.

[Palumboism]

Honestly, the A380 is the most advanced Super Jumbo in the market right now.....any Captain would be proud to say I fly the A380....I give Airbus Mad Respect for this Mega Plane......they haven't had any major issues with the plane right now, well, except for that incident a couple years ago with one of the Rolls Royce engine, but it was a Rolls Royce issue, not Airbus, they've fixed that ....so far, so good

Personally, I think the A380 and 747-8 are fantastic airplanes, but I also believe it was a business mistake to develop both of them.  The A380 is estimated to have cost Airbus $28 billion to develop and as of right now they are just breaking even on it.  

I think it would have made more sense if they tried to develop their own 777.  They eventually figured this out years later and developed the  A350 900 and 1000.  What it comes down to is they didn't want to admit the A340 was an inferior product, but everyone else could see it was.  

The 777 obsoleted all four engine jets back in 1995.  I don't understand why Airbus didn't understand that, but they would have if they were really listening to the Airlines.

[tres_taco_combo]

The secret to Boeing's success is so simple.  They listen to what the customer wants and make it.  Airbus came out with the A380 which very few airlines said they wanted and Boeing came out with the 787 that most airlines wanted.  Now Boeing is working on a 797 for the middle of the market and Airbus is waiting to see what Boeing does so they can copy.

someone in the aviation field said "its a 2 engine world"

[jwb]

Personally, I think the A380 and 747-8 are fantastic airplanes, but I also believe it was a business mistake to develop both of them.  The A380 is estimated to have cost Airbus $28 billion to develop and as of right now they are just breaking even on it.  

I think it would have made more sense if they tried to develop their own 777.  They eventually figured this out years later and developed the  A350 900 and 1000.  What it comes down to is they didn't want to admit the A340 was an inferior product, but everyone else could see it was.  

The 777 obsoleted all four engine jets back in 1995.  I don't understand why Airbus didn't understand that, but they would have if they were really listening to the Airlines.

did they have access to those huge 777 engines Boeing used?

[El Diablo Blanco]

Thiel seems to have forgotten about gravity and fuel

[Palumboism]

did they have access to those huge 777 engines Boeing used?

Yes, they probably could have got all three engine companies to make an engine for them.  Right now the Rolls Royce is making an engine for the A350 1000 that's the same thrust as the 777.  The A350 1000 is the 777 competitor they should have made instead of the A380, and it's selling very well.

[sync pulse]

Edit: contra-rotating props (mixmaster) were a maintenance pain in the ass