Shawn Ray - Is in The House!!!!

[johnny1]

Not sure the year this was taken but it was a hall mark of his consistently over the years...balance.

[Kwon]

Shawn "Cat-Hater" Ray > Pill "Shoe-room" Heath

[NarcissisticDeity]

they dont need to buy judges, judges are on a nice cushy expenses paid trip and dont want to rock the boat, the Olympia has always been judged on reputations and momentum going into the show, not on the condition and quality of each athlete on the day.

Yeah 1998 Mr Olympia contradicts that notion real quick , Ronnie had NO momentum or reputation going into that show , in fact it was a forgone conclusion it was Flex's show. Same could be said for Dorian's 2nd place in 1991 he came out of no where to give Haney a real run for his money. I admire your confidence in your opinion but unless you back it with facts it's still nothing more than an opinion.

How the Olympia was fixed - Give Pete a Chance - Brief Article
Flex ,  Feb, 2002   by Peter McGough



It was shortly after 2:25 PM on Saturday, October 27, at the Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino Events Center in Las Vegas. The prejudging of the 2001 Mr. Olympia contest had just concluded and Jim Manion looked with horror at the score sheets he had collected from the IFBB judging panel. As NPC chairman and head of the IFBB judges committee, Manion couldn't believe his eyes. Jay Cutler had won both the muscularity and symmetry rounds, and he led defending champ Ronnie Coleman by two rounds to nil.

 Manion rushed from the auditorium in search of Wayne DeMilia, IFBB Pro Division chairman and promoter of the IFBB Mr. Olympia contest. DeMilia went pale, instantly realizing, as Manion had done earlier, that this was not meant to be. This was Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia contest and a Weider-contracted athlete -- namely Coleman -- had to win. Cutler had ceased to be a Weider athlete shortly after the 2000 Mr. Olympia. DeMilia and Manion both knew that something had gone horribly wrong, that once Joe Weider learned his man was second, he would go ballistic and there would be hell to pay. The duo promptly left for the hotel suite that acted as IFBB base of Olympia operations.

As they walked through the door of the suite, the phone rang, and DeMilia picked it up to hear the well-known twang of Joe Weider. Joe had already heard that Coleman was marooned in second place and he demanded the circumstances be changed in order for his man to win. Later that evening, under DeMiia and Manion's direction, the judging panel gave the posing and posedown rounds to Coleman, thus ensuring he, and not Cutler, was crowned 2001 Mr. Olympia. Oh, and Lou Ferrigno and Gary Coleman are twins separated at birth.

For the record, the last sentence is more credible than the contents of the first three paragraphs. Believe it or not, the fictionalized version of what went on at the judging of the 2001 Mr. Olympia contest has been spun in certain quarters by some presenting themselves as insiders. Here are the facts. 1. Joe Weider plays no part in deciding who is. judged Mr. Olympia. At the time of the prejudging, he was in fact at one of his residences in Las Vegas and was not even aware that Coleman's crown had been in jeopardy until after the event.

2. If the reality was that a Weider man had to win the Olympia, why would the judges have given Cutler the first two rounds, thereby giving themselves a problem to sort out later?

3. The truth is that Coleman was off at the prejudging but was sharper at the evening show, and his posing was much more outgoing and aggressive than Cutler's. Therefore, the defending champ winning the posing and posedown rounds is entirely believable. (Coleman actually won the contest because his winning margins in the final two rounds were greater than Cutler's in the first two rounds.)

4. Leaving aside the opinion that a bodybuilding contest (i.e., the assessment of who has the best body) is really decided during the first two rounds, current judging criteria holds that all four rounds have equal value. So, again, Coleman's manner of victory is entirely understandable, if a bit unorthodox. You can make an argument that, in the end, the posedown should not decide the Mr. Olympia contest, but that's a question of the process needing modification and irrelevant to the judging format that existed on

October 27, 2001.

5. In a subjective sport like bodybuilding, conjecture will always reign that a contest has been rigged, especially if there is an unpopular result. For an Olympia contest to be fixed, 13 judges have to be in cahoots and conspire to control the result. Over the years, rumormongers have ventured that Olympias have been manipulated, but in all those years, no member of those judging panels (many of whom have left or broken away from bodybuilding in acrimonious circumstances) have blown the whistle. The reason: There is no whistle to blow.

6. The bodybuilding community isn't exactly known to be a great keeper of secrets. Rumors of a hangnail become an amputated leg once the story goes around gyms for a couple of days. I've been involved in this sport for decades. If there had been corruption in the judging of Mr. Olympia, I'd have heard about it long before now.

7. History shows there is no Weider bias in the judging of an Olympia. When Ronnie Coleman first won the Mr. Olympia in 1998, he was not a Weider athlete and had not been considered as a candidate for one until he won the O. Shortly before the 1991 Mr. Olympia, reigning champ Lee Haney severed his ties with Weider and signed a megabucks contract with Twinlab. The rumor was that Joe Weider would not "allow" him to win the O. Another Weider athlete, Dorian Yates, entered his first Olympia that year and pushed Haney all the way. If Weider bias ruled at the Olympia, Yates would have been named the 1991 Mr. Olympia.

Stop press: As this column was completed, news broke of Jay Cutler's notification that his Olympia drug-test sample had tested positive. (This was before all tests at the 2001 Olympia were declared null and void. See page 118 for full details.) Again, the rumor mill hummed to the tune that the Weider/IFBB combine, not content with simply "fixing" the Olympia, was trying to fix Cutler, period. When the drug tests were declared null and void, the same uninformed cynics postulated that the IFBB, fearing legal intervention, had decided to close the issue down. Totally untrue. The reasons for the tests being declared null and void are completely due to the facts stated on page 118.

The bottom line is that neither the Weider company nor the IFBB had anything to gain by derailing Cutler's bandwagon. With Cutler nearly dethroning Coleman, DeMilia was almost salivating at the prospect of a new young contender who could be promoted as a legitimate threat for the 2002 Olympia crown. Any attempt to undermine Cutler undermined the sport, the IFBB and the Olympia contest. As it is, the IFBB followed due process and did the right thing. But, for some people, that's kinda boring.

[Parker]

Shawn, whatever happened to Edgar Fletcher? He dropped out of sight. Have you talked to him at all, and if so how does he feel about not getting his pro card, yet seeing the mediocrity now that have earned their pro cards?

[Simple Simon]

Yeah 1998 Mr Olympia contradicts that notion real quick , Ronnie had NO momentum or reputation going into that show , in fact it was a forgone conclusion it was Flex's show. Same could be said for Dorian's 2nd place in 1991 he came out of no where to give Haney a real run for his money. I admire your confidence in your opinion but unless you back it with facts it's still nothing more than an opinion.

How the Olympia was fixed - Give Pete a Chance - Brief Article
Flex ,  Feb, 2002   by Peter McGough



It was shortly after 2:25 PM on Saturday, October 27, at the Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino Events Center in Las Vegas. The prejudging of the 2001 Mr. Olympia contest had just concluded and Jim Manion looked with horror at the score sheets he had collected from the IFBB judging panel. As NPC chairman and head of the IFBB judges committee, Manion couldn't believe his eyes. Jay Cutler had won both the muscularity and symmetry rounds, and he led defending champ Ronnie Coleman by two rounds to nil.

 Manion rushed from the auditorium in search of Wayne DeMilia, IFBB Pro Division chairman and promoter of the IFBB Mr. Olympia contest. DeMilia went pale, instantly realizing, as Manion had done earlier, that this was not meant to be. This was Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia contest and a Weider-contracted athlete -- namely Coleman -- had to win. Cutler had ceased to be a Weider athlete shortly after the 2000 Mr. Olympia. DeMilia and Manion both knew that something had gone horribly wrong, that once Joe Weider learned his man was second, he would go ballistic and there would be hell to pay. The duo promptly left for the hotel suite that acted as IFBB base of Olympia operations.

As they walked through the door of the suite, the phone rang, and DeMilia picked it up to hear the well-known twang of Joe Weider. Joe had already heard that Coleman was marooned in second place and he demanded the circumstances be changed in order for his man to win. Later that evening, under DeMiia and Manion's direction, the judging panel gave the posing and posedown rounds to Coleman, thus ensuring he, and not Cutler, was crowned 2001 Mr. Olympia. Oh, and Lou Ferrigno and Gary Coleman are twins separated at birth.

For the record, the last sentence is more credible than the contents of the first three paragraphs. Believe it or not, the fictionalized version of what went on at the judging of the 2001 Mr. Olympia contest has been spun in certain quarters by some presenting themselves as insiders. Here are the facts. 1. Joe Weider plays no part in deciding who is. judged Mr. Olympia. At the time of the prejudging, he was in fact at one of his residences in Las Vegas and was not even aware that Coleman's crown had been in jeopardy until after the event.

2. If the reality was that a Weider man had to win the Olympia, why would the judges have given Cutler the first two rounds, thereby giving themselves a problem to sort out later?

3. The truth is that Coleman was off at the prejudging but was sharper at the evening show, and his posing was much more outgoing and aggressive than Cutler's. Therefore, the defending champ winning the posing and posedown rounds is entirely believable. (Coleman actually won the contest because his winning margins in the final two rounds were greater than Cutler's in the first two rounds.)

4. Leaving aside the opinion that a bodybuilding contest (i.e., the assessment of who has the best body) is really decided during the first two rounds, current judging criteria holds that all four rounds have equal value. So, again, Coleman's manner of victory is entirely understandable, if a bit unorthodox. You can make an argument that, in the end, the posedown should not decide the Mr. Olympia contest, but that's a question of the process needing modification and irrelevant to the judging format that existed on

October 27, 2001.

5. In a subjective sport like bodybuilding, conjecture will always reign that a contest has been rigged, especially if there is an unpopular result. For an Olympia contest to be fixed, 13 judges have to be in cahoots and conspire to control the result. Over the years, rumormongers have ventured that Olympias have been manipulated, but in all those years, no member of those judging panels (many of whom have left or broken away from bodybuilding in acrimonious circumstances) have blown the whistle. The reason: There is no whistle to blow.

6. The bodybuilding community isn't exactly known to be a great keeper of secrets. Rumors of a hangnail become an amputated leg once the story goes around gyms for a couple of days. I've been involved in this sport for decades. If there had been corruption in the judging of Mr. Olympia, I'd have heard about it long before now.

7. History shows there is no Weider bias in the judging of an Olympia. When Ronnie Coleman first won the Mr. Olympia in 1998, he was not a Weider athlete and had not been considered as a candidate for one until he won the O. Shortly before the 1991 Mr. Olympia, reigning champ Lee Haney severed his ties with Weider and signed a megabucks contract with Twinlab. The rumor was that Joe Weider would not "allow" him to win the O. Another Weider athlete, Dorian Yates, entered his first Olympia that year and pushed Haney all the way. If Weider bias ruled at the Olympia, Yates would have been named the 1991 Mr. Olympia.

Stop press: As this column was completed, news broke of Jay Cutler's notification that his Olympia drug-test sample had tested positive. (This was before all tests at the 2001 Olympia were declared null and void. See page 118 for full details.) Again, the rumor mill hummed to the tune that the Weider/IFBB combine, not content with simply "fixing" the Olympia, was trying to fix Cutler, period. When the drug tests were declared null and void, the same uninformed cynics postulated that the IFBB, fearing legal intervention, had decided to close the issue down. Totally untrue. The reasons for the tests being declared null and void are completely due to the facts stated on page 118.

The bottom line is that neither the Weider company nor the IFBB had anything to gain by derailing Cutler's bandwagon. With Cutler nearly dethroning Coleman, DeMilia was almost salivating at the prospect of a new young contender who could be promoted as a legitimate threat for the 2002 Olympia crown. Any attempt to undermine Cutler undermined the sport, the IFBB and the Olympia contest. As it is, the IFBB followed due process and did the right thing. But, for some people, that's kinda boring.

so my entire theory is wrong based on 2 Olympia results?

Nice logic...

[dj181]

bena-fucking-fatto FUCK YEAH  

and dont forget Paul-Jean Guillume (altjough his quads were a bit too big compared to his upper body)

[Shawn Ray]

Shawn, whatever happened to Edgar Fletcher? He dropped out of sight. Have you talked to him at all, and if so how does he feel about not getting his pro card, yet seeing the mediocrity now that have earned their pro cards?

I never knew Edgar petsonnaly. I think he lived in Pittsburgh?

[Kwon]

I never knew Edgar petsonnaly. I think he lived in Pittsburgh?

Did Edgar Petsonnaly have a pet of some sort? Maybe a cat?

The plot thickens!

Also you got upset with another body builder (I forget his name) because he was talking about his cat... he pretty much disappeared after that

[andreisdaman]

According to many, Shawn Ray should of won once, as should of Flex Wheeler.  

I DEFINITELY agree with that, Ron.  My theory is that Shawn was perceived as an arrogant pretty boy and had a nice Weider contract so he really didn't have to compete more than once a year....I really think there was a lot of jealousy toward Shawn and he was downgraded in judging (maybe unconsciously) because of that....

[rocket]

From this photo it is obvious that Phil is on a different level from Shawn.

From that photo, it's obvious that Phil's chest starts and ends too high and that a maxed out physique is not necessarily a good one.

Shawn looks much, much better than Phil ever has.  Phil can win 10,000 olympias, but he'll never have a chest or proportions that flow.  Ever.

[Parker]

I DEFINITELY agree with that, Ron.  My theory is that Shawn was perceived as an arrogant pretty boy and had a nice Weider contract so he really didn't have to compete more than once a year....I really think there was a lot of jealousy toward Shawn and he was downgraded in judging (maybe unconsciously) because of that....

He, Flex, and Kevin (correct?) had Weider contracts. I think even Dorian had a Weider contract as well.

But I do agree with you.

I also wonder did any of these guys back have attorneys to negotiate their contracts, like Pros of other sports did?

[NarcissisticDeity]

so my entire theory is wrong based on 2 Olympia results?

Nice logic...

Well seeing it's an opinion it's neither right or wrong. If it's a theory you omitted any supporting facts.

Nice logic...

[Grape Ape]

this version of Phil Heath beats anything Shawn has ever brought and Shawn did bring some fantastic packages in his time.

Still amazing to me that after all this time, they still can't get cameramen with any type of clue.

For the RLS and RDB, the angle is from the floor and never shows the complete shot.  They only show full body while he's in transition.

[DooM_]

From this photo it is obvious that Phil is on a different level from Shawn.

heath has more size but he looks puffed up and 'bloofy' , doesn't have the solid granite look of the guys in the 90's . . . his head has also morphed it seems . . . insulin and gh and injected oil have ruined bodybuilding . . .

[NarcissisticDeity]

I DEFINITELY agree with that, Ron.  My theory is that Shawn was perceived as an arrogant pretty boy and had a nice Weider contract so he really didn't have to compete more than once a year....I really think there was a lot of jealousy toward Shawn and he was downgraded in judging (maybe unconsciously) because of that....

Jealous of what exactly? All of his pro wins? Oh wait 

[LurkerNoMore]

Trying again

Here's a few questions if you have time :

 1 - Which IFBB pro (current or past) when all things considered (life style, career, placings, rewards, consequences, etc..) would you consider to be a candidate for Most Successful Pro Ever? (Arnold Excluded)

 2 - Which IFBB pro (current or past) when all things considered (life style, career, placings, rewards, consequences, etc..) would you consider to be a candidate for Most Tragic Pro Ever?  (Titus excluded)

 3 - What is your honest opinion on the pre-made ready to drink protein shakes you see on the shelves.  Like Myoplex, Met Rx, Muscle Milk, etc...  any protein drink already pre made.  I have heard from others that these are a poor choice that the process of making them and the time of sitting on the shelf has denatured the product greatly.

[Ronnie Rep]

From this photo it is obvious that Phil is on a different level from Shawn.

Obviously a lower level. Heath's physique doesn't flow like Shawns. Overpowering Arms and delts, make his chest look small and bunched up. Not to mention his narrow clavicles.

[SF1900]

A few comparisons of a prime Ray vs a Prime Heath...who would win, I definitely give the FDB, Ab/Thigh,FLS and maybe the MM too Ray (more complete with a actual chest) Heaths the bigger guy with extreme muscle fullness etc and a BDB that's the trademark of his domination of his era

Anyone who knows anything about bodybuilding knows that Shawn is beating Phil in that back double bicep pose.

Although Phil is bigger, Shawn has WAY more detail in his back and hamstrings. Phil's shoulders and back looks bloofy and watery; Shawns back looks like a road map.

And Phil looks absolutely atrocious in the front relaxed spread. Horrible proportions.

[BSN]

Oops.. Flex Wheeler   

[NarcissisticDeity]

Obviously a lower level. Heath's physique doesn't flow like Shawns. Overpowering Arms and delts, make his chest look small and bunched up. Not to mention his narrow clavicles.

Shawn has narrow clavicles as well not as evident because he's not 6 pounds of sugar stuffed in a 5 pound bag like Phil

[NarcissisticDeity]

Oops.. Flex Wheeler   

[Parker]

Shawn has narrow clavicles as well not as evident because he's not 6 pounds of sugar stuffed in a 5 pound bag like Phil

I think that pic is misleading because Dorian is squared up, whereas Shawn has his shoulders fwd and in for that pose. Try it an see how you look compared to be squared up relaxed.

A better comparison would be both Shawn and Dorian in the front relaxed pose

[che]

Shawn's physique is better than Phil's ,  Phil is just a  better bodybuilder .

[chaos]

Trying to get too big without building Quality first.

This single statement is bound to make some heads explode!

[Simple Simon]

This single statement is bound to make some heads explode!

I asked for explanation but it was ignored, Shawn has ignored every question I have asked, thats why I think it isnt him...