Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...

[LuciusFox]

I know what you are saying...  I just (personally) think that they should play more of the middle ground - denying it or saying they use tons seem to be bigger red flags.

      I guess they just have to hope ignorance benefits them. Your right, the plausible deniability only works if they look like they could use that much.

[shortfatugly]

This " I have a list of my personal use" is a dangerous game to play.  It won't work ; For a number of reasons.  And it may be held against you as it shows that some foresight went into planning your defense.

The medical use of sustanon 250 is one shot every 2 weeks : to change a female into a male. 
Testosterone enanthate 200 or 250 is sometimes used every 10 days : for TRT or again to change a female to a male. 

So for a margin of error, you could extend this to 4 shots of 250 per month. or a maximum of 250 mg per week.

the orals --would similarly be figured out by their dosage.

Some of it is common sense as 10 bottles of E doesn't immediately constitute dealer status although DA's have been known to make attempts when lesser amounts have been found.

THe definition of "personal use " or " trafficker/dealer" is NOT  set out by the accused/perpetrator but rather by a medical and legal definition. 

The laws are getting so that it is almost incumbent on the person charged to prove that he is NOT A DEALER as opposed to having the prosecutors prove that he is.- an exaggeration to be sure yet that road is being paved as we speak- or type this.

Anyone who flashes around a sheet of paper listing their personal use details is only flashing a red light to the authorities that he or she is possibly a steroid dealer who came up with a ruse to get out of that designation.

What is interesting for those who follow female bodybuilding & drug cycles within that category- is just how little AAS is actually needed to alter one's sexual chemistry from female to male.   Sustanon 250 or   Test enanthate every 10 days  seems quite small in amount when compared to what some of the girls use.  ( 1 ml of either).  It won't turn you into an ubermensch or anything but you'll be male nonetheless. 

[BayGBM]

I think most of us have a fondness for oral.

I know I do. 

[BB]

Shortfat, I don't have the specifics on how Dave Johns passed away but I do recall a statement about "Legionaire's Disease" which I never took the opportunity to clarify.

I knew Dave for a short period during his young life and have to admit that he was one of the best guys I've ever met in this crazy sport.

John's best friend was another great person (powerlifter, I believe) who worked for the LAPD helping kids in some official capacity. He is/was another great person.

Sorry for not being specific, but a lot of time has passed since Dave passed away I've lost touch with his friends a long while back.

Any details would be appreciated.

Howdy SM,

Dave Johns passed away from "Valley Fever", which I think is a fungal infection of the lungs. 

[240 is Back]

I know I do. 

Bay knows what I'm talking about.  Nothing like a hot chick on her knees, eh buddy? 

[LuciusFox]

This " I have a list of my personal use" is a dangerous game to play.  It won't work ; For a number of reasons.  And it may be held against you as it shows that some foresight went into planning your defense.

The medical use of sustanon 250 is one shot every 2 weeks : to change a female into a male. 
Testosterone enanthate 200 or 250 is sometimes used every 10 days : for TRT or again to change a female to a male. 

So for a margin of error, you could extend this to 4 shots of 250 per month. or a maximum of 250 mg per week.

the orals --would similarly be figured out by their dosage.

Some of it is common sense as 10 bottles of E doesn't immediately constitute dealer status although DA's have been known to make attempts when lesser amounts have been found.

THe definition of "personal use " or " trafficker/dealer" is NOT  set out by the accused/perpetrator but rather by a medical and legal definition. 

The laws are getting so that it is almost incumbent on the person charged to prove that he is NOT A DEALER as opposed to having the prosecutors prove that he is.- an exaggeration to be sure yet that road is being paved as we speak- or type this.

Anyone who flashes around a sheet of paper listing their personal use details is only flashing a red light to the authorities that he or she is possibly a steroid dealer who came up with a ruse to get out of that designation.

What is interesting for those who follow female bodybuilding & drug cycles within that category- is just how little AAS is actually needed to alter one's sexual chemistry from female to male.   Sustanon 250 or   Test enanthate every 10 days  seems quite small in amount when compared to what some of the girls use.  ( 1 ml of either).  It won't turn you into an ubermensch or anything but you'll be male nonetheless. 

   I'm not saying they'd carry the list themselves or have it prewritten. I'm saying the fact that such lists are spoken about on the internet may back up there case. I agree that the accused cannot set personal use standards, but the judge has some discretion as to the sentence.

[Johnny Apollo]

Most judges are as ignorant as can be as far as anabolic steroids go. I remember someone who was charged once mentioned the judge said STEROIDS ARE WOSE THAN CRACK!!!

With blatantly false bullshit it's no wonder anabolic steroids are regarded the way they are by society.

[LuciusFox]

Most judges are as ignorant as can be as far as anabolic steroids go. I remember someone who was charged once mentioned the judge said STEROIDS ARE WOSE THAN CRACK!!!

With blatantly false bullshit it's no wonder anabolic steroids are regarded the way they are by society.

  It's especially sad when educated people are just ignorant, if not more so, than the average person.

[shortfatugly]

Howdy SM,

Dave Johns passed away from "Valley Fever", which I think is a fungal infection of the lungs. 

oh yeah.  I remember something about that now that you have mentioned it. 

I don't know what happened to JOhns that would lower his immune system to such an extent that a fungal infection could take over.   

This is not a very common thing. 

[The RedMeatKid]

Off the top of my head I can think of the following pros/top amateurs that have died well before their number should have been up... it's beyond a joke (and this is from memory - I've no doubt missed a bunch)

Andreas Munzer	30
BJ Johns	34
Charles Durr	45
Curtis Leffler	36
Derrick Whitsett	37
Don Ross	55
Don Youngblood	50
Fannie Barrios	39
Mike Mentzer	49
Mohammad Benaziza	28 ...20 fricken 8!!
Paul DeMayo	37
Ray Mentzer	47
Sonny Schmidt	46

Momo and DeMayo broke my heart, I remember being stunned for days after reading of Paul's unfittingly pathetic death (and I mean that resectfully - he deserved to be known as Quadzilla not that bodybuilder that OD'ed...). Munzer, well, we could have seen that coming maybe, the guy was a freak - who needs anatomy charts he had no skin! Being from NZ BJ's death rocked me as well.

What do you think? Is it out of control or do we, as the bbing community just get thrown into the spotlight due to the 'steriod' stereotype?

It's a shame anyway, there's some legends on that list for sure.

Glen Stollery
Auckland, NZ

How does the death of another male "break your heart"??  You sound like kind of a fruit basket.

[shortfatugly]

   I'm not saying they'd carry the list themselves or have it prewritten. I'm saying the fact that such lists are spoken about on the internet may back up there case. I agree that the accused cannot set personal use standards, but the judge has some discretion as to the sentence.

Holy smokes Lucius,   the judge?  For the love of mike!  internet lists? 

This is not how it goes down in court. 

[bmacsys]

DAve JOhns died of liver cancer and complications from that.   Seems he had a fondness for orals.

He died of a viral infection.

[shortfatugly]

He died of a viral infection.

so we have that he died of legionaries disease,
liver cancer due to fondness of oral ( my favorite )
fungal infection.
and now a viral infection.

Did something preclude him from coming down with anything else or have we run out of things? 

maybe he was hit by a bus on the way to get his bacterial/viral/fungal infection checked out. 

[Johnny Apollo]

It seems with alot of deaths where the user was using steroids and the cause of death is majorly unknown by the public..All kinds of speculation starts to arise. That happened with that one baseball player who claimed he got BRAIN CANCER from anabolic steroids. Ignoring the fact ZERO scientific studies have ever proven a link between brain cancer and anabolic steroids.

[Johnny Apollo]

Even Lyle Alzado's doctors said the brain cancer wasn't caused by steroids.  But why would the general public or media concern themselves with medical evidence?  That would require brain power to process the info.   

Fear, Propaganda and unsubstantiated alarmist bullshit catch eyes and increase ratings better than the boring old facts.

After all..Why let something as worthless as the facts and evidence get in the way of a good news article or media piece?


Who gets Muscular Development? I highly advise reading "The Romano Factor" by John Romano. He's a steroid expert who knows about all of the bullshit in the media. Check out the may issue of Muscular Development and there is a great article in there. Also other articles detailing the myths of supposed steroid side effects.

[oldtimer1]

Don't you think we shouldn't include early deaths from murder, suicide, and cancer?  I think the point of this thread was early death from the bodybuilding life style.  That means heavy drug use.  This is a small sub culture of a sport concerning professionals.  We can't claim with a straight face that it's an acceptable statistical coincidence the illnesses of "healthy" bodybuilders who get seriously ill.  I know the many fans of steroids will rationalize this fact to negate viewing their own drug use in a negative light.

[240 is Back]

John Romano and I see eye-to-eye about everything when it comes to roids and media bullshit.

Me too.  And Lyle Alzado died of HIV.  He was a closet bisexual.





RIP XKOL.

[shortfatugly]

Don't you think we shouldn't include early deaths from murder, suicide, and cancer?  I think the point of this thread was early death from the bodybuilding life style.  That means heavy drug use.  This is a small sub culture of a sport concerning professionals.  We can't claim with a straight face that it's an acceptable statistical coincidence the illnesses of "healthy" bodybuilders who get seriously ill.  I know the many fans of steroids will rationalize this fact to negate viewing their own drug use in a negative light.

I think that the bodybuilding lifestyle should encompass everything involved. 
Not just the anabolics but all the other craziness that goes along with bodybuilding.

HOwever it could be easier to do the " other craziness" and hook this up with bodybuilding.  Bodybuilders, are almost by defintion risk takers, calculated or otherwise.  MOst don't appreciate being told how to live their life or what to do and are loathe to follow the rules and conventions of so-called normal society.  So the paths they choose are somewhat different than those chosen by the Cleavers.

YOu have to have to tough interior to handle the bodybuilding lifestyle or figure out how to dabble in it and get the hell out.  It could be that not many figure this out until too late.

[shortfatugly]

Me too.  And Lyle Alzado died of HIV.  He was a closet bisexual.
RIP XKOL.

closet bisexual or shared dirty needles with some infected people. 

Either way- it was a lifestyle that he chose to hide from the public.  He did die from a rare form of brain cancer that is now almost always seen with people suffering from AIDS. 

[BB]

There are two illnesses that share the "Valley Fever" name:

Valley Fever- This is the fungal infection that inhabits the American west.

Rift Vally Fever- This is a virus, common to Africa.

Johns's had the first.

[Gordon_Gekko]

so we have that he died of legionaries disease,
liver cancer due to fondness of oral ( my favorite )
fungal infection.
and now a viral infection.

Did something preclude him from coming down with anything else or have we run out of things? 

maybe he was hit by a bus on the way to get his bacterial/viral/fungal infection checked out. 

 

I have always heard / read from numerous sources that it was in fact Valley Fever. And I am in agreement with the post above that questions what could have caused an otherwise healthy adult's immune system to crash to the point where a relatively rare fungal infection would kill him.

[LuciusFox]

Holy smokes Lucius,   the judge?  For the love of mike!  internet lists? 

This is not how it goes down in court. 

  I thought it would be a criminal case with a judge?

[shortfatugly]

oh yeah.  I remember something about that now that you have mentioned it. 

I don't know what happened to JOhns that would lower his immune system to such an extent that a fungal infection could take over.  
This is not a very common thing. 

GG,

yeah,  this is what i wrote that you mentioned.


what ELSE was the guy doing? 

A lot of people in Arizona have it ( 1 out of 33 people from a search I did ) but the death rate is only about 1%. The fact sheet on VF stated that immuno compromised people are more prone to get it. and suffer worse

[shortfatugly]

  I thought it would be a criminal case with a judge?

yeah.  You are right. 

My thinking was that no one would allow an internet board discussion to be of much importance in a criminal proceeding.  Especially any discussion here on getbig. 

And secondly, no prosecutor would bring a piece of paper having a list of drugs for personal use into the transcript. 

The defense may bring this list in as evidence yet the prosecutor would almost laugh the defense lawyer out of town for such a thing.  It's too much of a self serving document that flies in the face of all other evidence that could possibly be found.

THe judge would almost certainly dismiss it as being unimportant.

[shortfatugly]

By the way,Dave Johns died from Valley Fever, a fungal infection of the lungs.

Very rare disease.

taken from a thread here on getbig.