Author Topic: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...  (Read 59545 times)

LuciusFox

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8775
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2006, 07:39:12 AM »
how did his drug usage prevent his health problems from happening?


 Hahahaha...that's what I was wondering, too ;D

hifrommike

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 836
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2006, 10:22:07 AM »
There's a magnifying lens over the deaths in bodybuilding.  People drop down dead all the time, including many in the prime of life.  Kids die of accidents from football & other strenuous sports, or they have heart attacks & die on basketball courts because of heart defects no one knew about.  No one accuses the sport of killing these people.  But bodybuilding gets accused of "causing" the deaths of people who may be abusing drugs, or pushing their bodies far beyond what they ordinarily would be capable of doing.  Why isn't it compulsiveness that's accused of the death, rather than bodybuilding?

& there's also a death wish among some trainers.  A writer in MUSCLEMAG several years ago did an article about how steroids went big in Canada after the death of Momo Benaziza.  When some guys heard he died, they were asking about what he was taking so they could take twice as much.  F'n crazy man. 


Johnny Apollo

  • Guest
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2006, 11:28:05 AM »
http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/hbosteroids/HBO-Real-Sports-steroid-special.avi


Real Sports episode on the propaganda of the dangers of anabolic Steroids.

onlyme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19328
  • Don't Fuck With Bears
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2006, 04:43:35 PM »
Keith, what were Mike and Ray like as people? Good guys?

I didn't know Mike and only met him once.  I was with Ray almost everyday.  A little wild and when he was on the shit he had a very short fuse.  He was strong as hell and thick too.  He was always nice to me and he always siad I was one of the funniest guys he ever knew.

arce377

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2551
  • ARCE DO SAN MARTIALARTS SCHOOL
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2006, 08:19:17 PM »
RIP! :(
ARCE
DOSAN DOJO

onlyme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19328
  • Don't Fuck With Bears
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2006, 10:04:15 PM »
How tall was Ray?

Abot 5'9" maybe 5'10" tops.  When I was trianing with him he was weighing 260 to 290

Adam Empire

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2370
  • Gobias Industries
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #81 on: April 12, 2006, 11:09:40 PM »
There is no other sport or job that requires years (10 plus) of drug and diruetic use.  These things take a toll on the body, along with the blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar issues that emerge later on.  I think that the increased use of insulin is going to show on the health of the retired competiors in a few years as their bodies can no longer regulate insulin levels naturally.

The demons that go along with knowing drug dealers only adds to the chances of early death or other issues (moving to harder drugs or dealing).  Overall, BBers should expect to live shorter if they go "all out" to be the best. 
Motherboy (the band).

Jr. Yates

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4646
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #82 on: April 12, 2006, 11:16:41 PM »
I was just reading some old flex mags and some of the stories were very scary. Momo's death i was reading from differnt points of view such as porter Cottrel. Also read about George Farah's shooting. I knew about it but reading it in extreme detail was different.
bodybuildersreality.com

shortfatugly

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2006, 03:58:06 AM »
David Johns: anyone remember how he died? 

YOu also have to look at the number of highly competitive bodybuilders who come down with diseases or illnesses, organ failure at ages far removed from the national average.  As stated above by Adam Empire, the problems derived from adding insulin, igf, lasix etc to the already heavy mixture of drugs needed are certainly going to show up in a few years. 

The trouble is that we may not hear about it.  Flex/MD etc are not going to publish all the stories about lower placing competitors who are on dialysis or waiting in line for a new liver. 

In comparison, steroids are almost benign.  The effects are known and can be acted upon: blood pressure, cholesterol changes, liver enzyme elevations. 

The 'genetics" that people talk about as being so important for success in high level bodybuilding is not always the wide shoulders narrow hips etc; It's a person's ability to properly process the increasing amount of drugs thought needed to compete and win, as well as having the right personality/organisational skills to handle the lifestyle that goes along with it.

The former  can't be known in advance as it is a physiological phenomenon.   You never know how your body is going to react to these things and in the huge dosages/ combinations thought needed until after you start taking them. 

The latter is kind of obvious and is more common but it is rarely found in the same individual possessing the former. 

In the beginning, what people do and in the amounts they do it is relatively safe.  As you start adding more and more things, and delve heavier into the lifestyle , it becomes more and more like a crap shoot. 

The odds are against you at the very top.

Since I am no where near that level and could never be, I don't overly concern myself with this stuff.

Some of you guys are at a much higher level that this though.

fearANDloathing

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Deep in The Plak Tow. Don't Fuck with me!
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2006, 08:59:57 AM »
Whatever

People die in every sport...

but the funny thing is, people are so concerned about bodybuilders dying and "how crazy the sport is getting" but they support soldiers being sent off to war for no reason and getting killed!

Lets make a list of how many soldiers have died under the age of 25, its going to be way longer than any list from bodybuilding related deaths.


GREAT POINT!! The death toll is still mounting in a war that we were lied to about

The Luke

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3017
  • What's that in the bushes?
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2006, 09:41:15 AM »
No one seems to consider the ticking time bomb of widespread prostate cancer among bodybuilders taking huge quantities of anabolic ANDROGENIC steroids, stacked with excessive (supraphysiological) doses of testosterone. All those androgens greatly elevate DHT production, and few (if any) pros use finasteride (proscar/propecia) as it significantly cuts into the effectiveness of their stacks.

I'm not talking about BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia), but full scale metastisising prostate cancer. If we all lived to 250 years old our (by then melon-sized benign) prostates would mature into full scale cancer. The huge doses of androgenics pros (and wannabe pros) take surely shortens that timescale down to within a regular life expectancy (even a pros life expectancy).

The Luke

stuntmovie

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8946
  • Getbig!
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2006, 01:48:36 PM »
Shortfat, I don't have the specifics on how Dave Johns passed away but I do recall a statement about "Legionaire's Disease" which I never took the opportunity to clarify.

I knew Dave for a short period during his young life and have to admit that he was one of the best guys I've ever met in this crazy sport.

John's best friend was another great person (powerlifter, I believe) who worked for the LAPD helping kids in some official capacity. He is/was another great person.

Sorry for not being specific, but a lot of time has passed since Dave passed away I've lost touch with his friends a long while back.

Any details would be appreciated.

LuciusFox

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8775
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #87 on: April 13, 2006, 01:52:31 PM »
No one seems to consider the ticking time bomb of widespread prostate cancer among bodybuilders taking huge quantities of anabolic ANDROGENIC steroids, stacked with excessive (supraphysiological) doses of testosterone. All those androgens greatly elevate DHT production, and few (if any) pros use finasteride (proscar/propecia) as it significantly cuts into the effectiveness of their stacks.

I'm not talking about BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia), but full scale metastisising prostate cancer. If we all lived to 250 years old our (by then melon-sized benign) prostates would mature into full scale cancer. The huge doses of androgenics pros (and wannabe pros) take surely shortens that timescale down to within a regular life expectancy (even a pros life expectancy).

The Luke

 Yeah, I wish we could gather reliable data on the drug use and disease rates of pros. So much of bodybuilding pharmacology is anecdotal.

shortfatugly

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2006, 04:58:16 AM »
haven't seen medford on this board; perhaps they took her computer privileges away for a week or so.

shortfatugly

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2006, 02:53:15 PM »
DAve JOhns died of liver cancer and complications from that.   Seems he had a fondness for orals.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2006, 02:53:48 PM »
Seems he had a fondness for orals.

I think most of us have a fondness for oral.

flexfan

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3989
  • Venice Versmilitude
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #91 on: April 14, 2006, 05:04:32 PM »
I could just as easily come up with a list of bodybuilders who died young in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s.

Are you trying to say that bb hasn't gotten any riskier or unhealthy?
Sultan

flexfan

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3989
  • Venice Versmilitude
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #92 on: April 14, 2006, 05:13:36 PM »
People who try to act like gear at the level the pros use it does not strongly contribute to the health problems some are experiencing are very naive or in denial
Sultan

LuciusFox

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8775
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #93 on: April 14, 2006, 05:17:43 PM »
People who try to act like gear at the level the pros use it does not strongly contribute to the health problems some are experiencing are very naive or in denial

 The amounts the pros use are very much exaggerated. In the event that they are busted, they say that they use large amounts so they can claim personal use. Most pros take 200-400 mg a week. When you have genetics like theirs, there is little reason to use more.

shortfatugly

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #94 on: April 14, 2006, 05:34:23 PM »
I think most of us have a fondness for oral.

I was expecting either you or whatzhisname to make a comment. 

glad you didn't disappoint!!


shortfatugly

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2006, 05:43:14 PM »
The amounts the pros use are very much exaggerated. In the event that they are busted, they say that they use large amounts so they can claim personal use. Most pros take 200-400 mg a week. When you have genetics like theirs, there is little reason to use more.

This actually started making the rounds after Andreas Munzer's death.  The "list" of drugs found in his desk or somewhere was a vertible pharmacy.  Then a few people started quoting that this " list" was just a scam for the very reason that you are giving.  It was a form of plausible deniability.

It isn't true as no lawyer or prosecutor takes notes/lists  such as this as being honest or truthful on the face of it.

Just like parts of the movie of the Bruce Lee story- this story of " the list of drugs is simply my shopping list for my personal use " is completely bogus and completely fabricated. 

Lucious, you seem to be fairly smart but I believe that your eagerness to believe in these bodybuilder heroes of yours will lead you to wrong conclusions.

and the board's overall penchant for irony is just an attempt to say afterwards that " hey , I was just joking,  ONly an idiot would have taken me serious!"

so there is nothing more anyone can say. On some things, I believe that you don't have a clue about the subject at hand whereas on other topics you seem well informed...  So you are just like the rest of us.

I still think you are a teddy bear though..:D - in a good way.

Please remember to post " meltdown" sometime soon.... i miss that.

LuciusFox

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8775
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2006, 05:58:17 PM »
This actually started making the rounds after Andreas Munzer's death.  The "list" of drugs found in his desk or somewhere was a vertible pharmacy.  Then a few people started quoting that this " list" was just a scam for the very reason that you are giving.  It was a form of plausible deniability.

It isn't true as no lawyer or prosecutor takes notes/lists  such as this as being honest or truthful on the face of it.

Just like parts of the movie of the Bruce Lee story- this story of " the list of drugs is simply my shopping list for my personal use " is completely bogus and completely fabricated. 

Lucious, you seem to be fairly smart but I believe that your eagerness to believe in these bodybuilder heroes of yours will lead you to wrong conclusions.

and the board's overall penchant for irony is just an attempt to say afterwards that " hey , I was just joking,  ONly an idiot would have taken me serious!"

so there is nothing more anyone can say. On some things, I believe that you don't have a clue about the subject at hand whereas on other topics you seem well informed...  So you are just like the rest of us.

I still think you are a teddy bear though..:D - in a good way.

Please remember to post " meltdown" sometime soon.... i miss that.


     Well, you are right, I don't know everything. And sometimes I do joke a little ;D Someone will melt down real soon, I promise you that ;D

Adam Empire

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2370
  • Gobias Industries
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #97 on: April 14, 2006, 06:05:22 PM »
The amounts the pros use are very much exaggerated. In the event that they are busted, they say that they use large amounts so they can claim personal use. Most pros take 200-400 mg a week. When you have genetics like theirs, there is little reason to use more.

Personal use definition is defined by law - not by what somebody posts on the internet or says otherwise.  Actually, it would be more wise for pros to say they hardly use anything - the last thing they need is to look like the have a phamacy in their houses or lots of dealer connections.
Motherboy (the band).

LuciusFox

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8775
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #98 on: April 14, 2006, 06:15:10 PM »
Personal use definition is defined by law - not by what somebody posts on the internet or says otherwise.  Actually, it would be more wise for pros to say they hardly use anything - the last thing they need is to look like the have a phamacy in their houses or lots of dealer connections.

 If they say they use nothing, and they are found with a whole bunch... ::)

Adam Empire

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2370
  • Gobias Industries
Re: Bodybuilding's DEAD POOL... this list is f#@king crazy...
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2006, 06:33:22 PM »
If they say they use nothing, and they are found with a whole bunch... ::)

I know what you are saying...  I just (personally) think that they should play more of the middle ground - denying it or saying they use tons seem to be bigger red flags.
Motherboy (the band).