Texas Church shooting - 27 dead - 30 injured

[rocket]

Still unsure what 'homocide' is. Must be something islamic.

Oh right

It's murder, by any form.

Not english as first language?

[phreak]

Oh right

It's murder, by any form.

Not english as first language?

Your spelling is actually wrong.

But indeed, I'm not a native speaker. I do know how to spell homicide though.

[SuperTed]

All valid points, but what is the alternative? Sure, mistakes can and will be made during chaotic shootings. But if I ask you what you personally would want to do in such a situation, would you want to cower and be executed? Or at least attempt to save yourself and loved ones -- even if you may fail, or shoot the wrong person first, or even get shot by the wrong person while trying to stop the actual perpetrator?

Who would choose waiting for certain death, when there is a small chance that taking action could help?

I'd rather have a gun with me for sure in that situation. However, I wouldn't really want to live in a society in which I'd be "on guard" every time I enter a public or enclosed space. Therefore, I'd probably be happier if I knew guns were just not easily available to anyone. I don't want to come across as some anti-gun liberal, but I'm not sure how much longer the US can avoid this issue.

[Pray_4_War]

government buys the guns back after that period 10 year mandatory prison for illegal possession of a firearm.

The penalty for committing mass murder is death.   If that doesn't discourage people from killing then why would a 10 year prison term?

We've banned cocaine and heroin and we have harsh mandatory sentencing for drug trafficking.  So there should be no drugs in our country right?

[Pray_4_War]

I wouldn't really want to live in a society in which I'd be "on guard" every time I enter a public or enclosed space.

That ship sailed unfortunately, worldwide, not just in the US.

[rocket]

Quite a difference! All caused by the difference in gun availability? No other factors?

I'm not foolish enough to say all

I'm being fair by stating the homocide homicide rate to begin with.  

I'm about being fair - I don't see how gun control succeeds in the america, as I stated (takes too long, varying political motives / media interference).

I just cannot abide people who will not admit the obviousness of having free access to a very quick form of murder as not being a large factor in the amount of people dying.

[rocket]

Your spelling is actually wrong.

But indeed, I'm not a native speaker. I do know how to spell homicide though.

Hah, touche'

[phreak]

I'd rather have a gun with me for sure in that situation. However, I wouldn't really want to live in a society in which I'd be "on guard" every time I enter a public or enclosed space. Therefore, I'd probably be happier if I knew guns were just not easily available to anyone. I don't want to come across as some anti-gun liberal, but I'm not sure how much longer the US can avoid this issue.

I would not want to look over my shoulder all the time either. And perhaps it is easy for me to talk, because here you essentially do not get shot unless you are a criminal.


And quite frankly, I would not trust myself with a weapon... too volatile. Smashed a car's windscreen two weeks ago because it did not stop for me at a pedestrian crossing. So perhaps not suited for concealed carry, would have potentially shot the fucker.


But still the question that Pray 4 War asks stands: What then? How does one defend oneself against a criminal that illegally obtained a gun? Vests for everyone?

[Thin Lizzy]

Still unsure what 'homocide' is. Must be something islamic.

I did check the homicide rates just now.

United States    4.88    15,696
United Kingdom    0.92    594

Quite a difference! All caused by the difference in gun availability? No other factors?

There is another factor in the United States, albeit a politically incorrect one:


Homicide rates by race. (per 100,000 population):

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/08/10/african-american-homicide-rate-nearly-quadruple-national-average-11680

20.9 for blacks (non-Hispanic)

4.9 for Hispanics

2.6 for whites (non-Hispanic)

[rocket]

But still the question that Pray 4 War asks stands: What then? How does one defend oneself against a criminal that illegally obtained a gun? Vests for everyone?

An interesting question is just how much of gun death in america is criminal killing an innocent bystander?  They hold on to that fear, but just how much is actually because of that?  

[phreak]

I'm not foolish enough to say all

I'm being fair by stating the homocide homicide rate to begin with.  

I'm about being fair - I don't see how gun control succeeds in the america, as I stated (takes too long, varying political motives / media interference).

I just cannot abide people who will not admit the obviousness of having free access to a very quick form of murder as not being a large factor in the amount of people dying.

One love, homie. 

Sure guns play a large, likely major, part in the US homicide rate. The philosophical question is whether it is intrinsically bad. Is saving the maximum amount of innocents worth giving up the possibility for effective self defence? Essentially like the imam of London said, should we just learn to live with the fact that criminals can take our shit and our lives without us being able (or allowed) to do anything?

[phreak]

An interesting question is just how much of gun death in america is criminal killing an innocent bystander?  They hold on to that fear, but just how much is actually because of that?  

Good point. If it is just criminals killing criminals, that would (to me) make a big difference in urgency.

[phreak]

There is another factor in the United States, albeit a politically incorrect one:


Homicide rates by race. (per 100,000 population):

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/08/10/african-american-homicide-rate-nearly-quadruple-national-average-11680

20.9 for blacks (non-Hispanic)

4.9 for Hispanics

2.6 for whites (non-Hispanic)

Once you shoot black, they always shoot back?

[rocket]

There is another factor in the United States, albeit a politically incorrect one:


Homicide rates by race. (per 100,000 population):

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/08/10/african-american-homicide-rate-nearly-quadruple-national-average-11680

20.9 for blacks (non-Hispanic)

4.9 for Hispanics

2.6 for whites (non-Hispanic)

We do need to subdivide those numbers.

How much of that is criminal killing other criminal?  The crime rate is higher for blacks, so isn't it mostly likely that it's the ahh.. game in play?

It's not quite so damning if it's mostly just criminals killing other criminals

[Pray_4_War]

The right to keep and bear arms is given to men by God.  It is endowed to us by our creator and it recognized as such by the Constitution of the United States.

If anyone doesn't like that or doesn't understand it then that's tough shit for them.

[Man of Steel]

This is very contradictory. There are too many biblical passages that claim god answers the prayers to the true and faith, ie faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains. It never mentions any caveats.

It also undermines the validity of god when your defense is simply, anything still goes and can happen. That is on par to something that's imaginary.

Surprised you didn't have the balls to say they all lacked the faith!

Justify from scripture how it's contradictory don't simply assert that it is.  

How does God answering prayers of the faithful and the faithful having a difficult life when in Christ stand at odds?   You understand that when prayers are answered sometimes the answer is "no" right?  

Straw man argument.   Your words, not mine.

Who lacked faith?  Explain.

[Thin Lizzy]

Once you shoot black, they always shoot back?

Europeans tend to have a fascination with American violence but for some reason have no interest in the details:

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2016-enforcement-report.pdf

The race/ethnicity of known Shooting suspects is most frequently Black (70.7%). Hispanic suspects accounted for an additional (26.9%) of all suspects. White suspects (1.9%) and Asian/Pacific Islander suspects (0.6%) accounted for the remaining portion of known Shooting suspects.

[SuperTed]

The right to keep and bear arms is given to men by God.  It is endowed to us by our creator and it recognized as such by the Constitution of the United States.

If anyone doesn't like that or doesn't understand it then that's tough shit for them.

Your government doesn't give you a full right bear arms though. How many guns and weapons are you really allowed by law? Military grade weaponry are banned for instance. You must support some level of arm control, it just seems to depend on the extent.

[SF1900]

Your government doesn't give you a full right bear arms though. How many guns and weapons are you really allowed by law? Military grade weaponry are banned for instance. You must support some level of arm control, it just seems to depend on the extent.

There are probably more weapons you can't own compared to the weapons you can own.

[SuperTed]

There are probably more weapons you can't own compared to the weapons you can own.

That's what I thought too (but wasn't sure). There clearly is a limit to the freedom of the average citizen when it comes to bearing arms. The US government obviously don't trust the civilian population having a similar fire-power to themselves. After all, a right to bear arms should surely mean all types of arms, and not just the least dangerous ones. Are Americans as free as they'd like to think they are?

[SF1900]

That's what I thought too (but wasn't sure). There clearly is a limit to the freedom of the average citizen when it comes to bearing arms. The US government obviously don't trust the civilian population having a similar fire-power to themselves. After all, a right to bear arms should surely mean all types of arms, and not just the least dangerous ones. Are Americans as free as they'd like to think they are?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

That's the funny thing. The people who advocate for the 2nd Amendment, are only advocating for a very RESTRICTED 2nd Amendment. Nowhere in the 2nd Amendment does it say that there are certain types of guns you cannot own. As such, why do they allow the government to restrict any type of guns they can own? The government is already infringing on their rights.

[SF1900]

Damn, 12-14 children were killed. 

[Megalodon]

.

[dj181]

You been sparring with dj181

 

10/10

well done gayos

[rangerwil]

The FBI just said he "may" have died from a self inflicted gunshot wound.