Pensioner kills burglar - now looking at murder charge

[Conker]

That may be but for sake of argument, lets say I am home and burglars break in and I end up shooting one with his own gun during the struggle. The odds are pretty high that i won't be charged or convicted but I was arrested. I'm potentially going to miss work, certainly will have to hire a criminal lawyer, and have an arrest on my record. While I appreciate the thought of trying to protect me, who is going to reimburse me for lost wages and attorney fees when I am clearly innocent?

so when the police turn up and find a stabbed dead man they're supposed to make an on the spot judgement call that you're "clearly innocent" ,take the dead body away and just let you get on with with your business ? the law doesn't really work that way in the UK. also if you've been formally arrested you're entitled to a duty(free) solicitor, unless you want to hire your own.

[Disgusted]

so when the police turn up and find a stabbed dead man they're supposed to make an on the spot judgement call that you're "clearly innocent" ,take the dead body away and just let you get on with with your business ? the law doesn't really work that way in the UK. also if you've been formally arrested you're entitled to a duty(free) solicitor, unless you want to hire your own.

When there is a breaking and entering and the perp is dead it's not rocket science and good thing because you and the police would, oh wait you already are.    Carry on

[Agnostic007]

so when the police turn up and find a stabbed dead man they're supposed to make an on the spot judgement call that you're "clearly innocent" ,take the dead body away and just let you get on with with your business ? the law doesn't really work that way in the UK. also if you've been formally arrested you're entitled to a duty(free) solicitor, unless you want to hire your own.

Yeah I'm not up on the UK rules. Here, in similar circumstances, if there is no Probable Cause to believe a crime was committed by the Homeowner, the homeowner and any witnesses would be brought down to the station and interviewed. If there is no surprises they would be brought back home and the investigation would run its course. If at some point, information or evidence comes to light that all wasn't as it seemed and the homeowner is now a suspect the police would present the evidence to a judge who would then determine of probable cause exists to issue a warrant. At that point you would be advised of your rights and if you can't afford an attorney, and you have to show you can't then a pretty lousy public defender would be assigned to your case.

[Conker]

When there is a breaking and entering and the perp is dead it's not rocket science and good thing because you and the police would, oh wait you already are.    Carry on

firstly, how do the police even know there was a break in? ....oh right because you told them so...people never make sht up to get themselves out trouble do they   lol

[Agnostic007]

firstly, how do the police even know there was a break in? ....oh right because you told them so...people never make sht up to get themselves out trouble do they   lol

There certainly could be a time when someone goes to the trouble of creating the illusion of a break in in order to commit a murder but it is probably so rare that it probably isn't going to be a factor. Arresting someone out of their home simply because there is a .001 chance they set up a murder doesn't seem logical to me. but I don't live there.   Don't forget, as the investigation continues, there is always the option of making an arrest. I prefer it be when it is likely or reasonable the person deserves it

[Conker]

Yeah I'm not up on the UK rules. Here, in similar circumstances, if there is no Probable Cause to believe a crime was committed by the Homeowner, the homeowner and any witnesses would be brought down to the station and interviewed. If there is no surprises they would be brought back home and the investigation would run its course. If at some point, information or evidence comes to light that all wasn't as it seemed and the homeowner is now a suspect the police would present the evidence to a judge who would then determine of probable cause exists to issue a warrant. At that point you would be advised of your rights and if you can't afford an attorney, and you have to show you can't then a pretty lousy public defender would be assigned to your case.

a dead man and an admission that you shot him wouldn't at least qualify as "probable cause"?

if you're going to "brought down to the station" as i said in my previous post you're better off being arrested as you then have far greater protections and rights. arrests do not go on your record in the UK, even if charges are brought. only convictions go on your record.

[be back]

a dead man and an admission that you shot him wouldn't at least qualify as "probable cause"?

if you're going to "brought down to the station" as i said in my previous post you're better off being arrested as you then have far greater protections and rights. arrests do not go on your record in the UK, even if charges are brought. only convictions go on your record.

hahaha , do you seriously think if you get picked up the polce cant find out if you have had previous arrests.

EVERYTHING goes down somewhere, it may not be something a potential employer can find but it exists all the same.

[Conker]

There certainly could be a time when someone goes to the trouble of creating the illusion of a break in in order to commit a murder but it is probably so rare that it probably isn't going to be a factor. Arresting someone out of their home simply because there is a .001 chance they set up a murder doesn't seem logical to me. but I don't live there.   Don't forget, as the investigation continues, there is always the option of making an arrest. I prefer it be when it is likely or reasonable the person deserves it

the police in the UK (and quite rightly so imo) aren't trained to make assumptions when they turn up to an incident involving a shot/stabbed dead body. maybe because people being killed is much more common in the US there's a more blase approach from US police.

there's a ton of different scenarios that could have transpired. the best course of action in most cases like this is to arrest on suspicion as they did in this instance. as said already this gives the proper protection to all parties. they seem to have dealt with this in a text book manner and the guy has been released without charge after a few hours.

[BIG AL MCKECHNIE]

There's an episode of Columbo where a woman steals her brothers keys so he has to come in the sliding window to her bedroom and she thinks he is a burglar and shoots him.  But it was a set up by her so she could inherit the family business.

Columbo saw right threw her dastardly plan so maybe the investigating cops were thinking along the same lines.

[Conker]

hahaha , do you seriously think if you get picked up the polce cant find out if you have had previous arrests.

EVERYTHING goes down somewhere, it may not be something a potential employer can find but it exists all the same.

the police can see if you've been arrested but they cannot legally pass that information on to ANYONE ELSE unless there was a conviction . hence (as i said) it doesn't go on your record.  hahaha  

[Conker]

There's an episode of Columbo where a woman steals her brothers keys so he has to come in the sliding window to her bedroom and she thinks he is a burglar and shoots him.  But it was a set up by her so she could inherit the family business.

Columbo saw right threw her dastardly plan so maybe the investigating cops were thinking along the same lines.

there's not just the possibility of someone claiming a false break in (which is a possibility) . there's also the chance that the burglar could have been trying to make an exit when the homeowner stabbed him...which would weaken a self defence claim....

if you all try use your brains a bit here , you'll probably work out why the police took the course of action they did. which was the right course of action.

[be back]

There's an episode of Columbo where a woman steals her brothers keys so he has to come in the sliding window to her bedroom and she thinks he is a burglar and shoots him.  But it was a set up by her so she could inherit the family business.

Columbo saw right threw her dastardly plan so maybe the investigating cops were thinking along the same lines.

almost all Columbos gotchas would never stand up in court...

[be back]

the police can see if you've been arrested but they cannot legally pass that information onto ANYONE ELSE unless there was a conviction . hence (as i said) it doesn't go on your record.  hahaha  

depends on what you define as "record"

[Conker]

depends on what you define as "record"

well what do you define "record" as in the context of this discussion?

[be back]

well what do you define "record" as in the context of this discussion?

context?

hahaha.. fuck off...have you forgot where you are?

[Kwon]

context?

hahaha.. fuck off...have you forgot where you are?

or who he is...

[Conker]

context?

hahaha.. fuck off...have you forgot where you are?

don't know where you are but i'm in my front room...and the word "context" definitely still exists here!

[Conker]

or who he is...

and who are you exactly...oh yeh you're that guy stuck on here every hour god sends. lol

...have a life much?

[SOMEPARTS]

Apparently GB has found its very own Perry Mason.

[illuminati]

Let the pensioner go
And give him a medal

Don’t go breaking into peoples houses
Or accept your fate.

[Agnostic007]

there's not just the possibility of someone claiming a false break in (which is a possibility) . there's also the chance that the burglar could have been trying to make an exit when the homeowner stabbed him...which would weaken a self defence claim....

if you all try use your brains a bit here , you'll probably work out why the police took the course of action they did. which was the right course of action.

I guess that's how they do it in the UK. In America, police don't just arrest people because it is the easy thing to do 

[illuminati]

I guess that's how they do it in the UK. In America, police don't just arrest people because it is the easy thing to do 

True — no no they don’t
They just shoot them dead out fear for their lives !! 




Ha, sorry I couldn’t resist it.

Back to being serious now.

[Agnostic007]

True — no no they don’t
They just shoot them dead out fear for their lives !! 




Ha, sorry I couldn’t resist it.

Back to being serious now.

touche' but even I have to flinch at someone like conker who things its best to arrest someone without probable cause to protect them...   

[che]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fury-over-oap-held-killing-12306173

Friends and neighbours have spoken out in support of the man held on suspicion of stabbing a burglar to death , saying: “He was just protecting himself.”

The 78-year-old murder suspect, named locally as Richard Osborn-Brooks, was in bed with his wife when he heard two men breaking into his house at 12.45am yesterday.

It is believed the ex-RAC manager went downstairs to investigate before one of the raiders threatened him with a screwdriver and marched him into the kitchen.

As the other was looking around upstairs, a struggle broke out and the alleged intruder, aged 38, suffered a stab wound to the upper body.

Both alleged burglars then fled the home in Hither Green, South East London, before neighbours spotted them trying to escape.

Killed the guy over a TV ? I hope that old  piece of shit  rots in jail.

[Agnostic007]

Killed the guy over a TV ? I hope that old  piece of shit  rots in jail.

are you being serious?