Mentzer vs Viator

[Danimal77]

His onstage weight at the 76 America was 199 and in that article it claimed his arms measured 19 inches but the writer of that article wasn't him

Im not referring to the 76 America. I believe he was 225 in 1980 or at some point in the later 70's.

[dj181]

Im not referring to the 76 America. I believe he was 225 in 1980 or at some point in the later 70's.

He stepped onstage at 210 for the 79 Mr ho it is in his heavy duty journal

[Danimal77]

He stepped onstage at 210 for the 79 Mr ho it is in his heavy duty journal

So maybe 1980, or his offseason weight while writing the article.

[pellius]

Something Jones said has stuck with me for life and a principle I follow. "Below a certain threshold of
intensity exercise will do little or nothing for size, strength and functional ability." That if you keep
working within your functional ability, doing things that are already easy, then you will not stimulate an
adaptive response. If you can do, say, 8 reps on a pullup, and always do 8 and never attempting a 9th,
there is no reason for your body to adapt because there's nothing to adapt to. No matter how many
low intensity sets you do you will never hit that "break over" point where you are trying to get your body
to do something it hasn't done before.

That's what sold me on to Jones, and later, Mentzer. It just made intuitive sense. But I've been training
nonstop with weights for 46 years and have tried many different protocols over the decades. There
has to be something more. I remember a girl in high school who was confined to a wheelchair. A little
skinny Asian girl but she had noticeable developed triceps. Everything else about her was skinny but
her tris stood out. No special diet, no high intensity, no negative resistance. Just pushing on those
wheels as long as she can remember. All high volume, low intensity, zero negatives, regular rice
heavy diet yet better tris than I had and the majority of the boys, with the exception of maybe three,
that went to that school.

As I fast approach 60 years of age I'm far more concerned with health, fitness, quality of life and no
pot belly. Still I wonder. What did I miss? I know I never had the genetic gift to be a muscular marvel
but you would think I could have done better. I mean, I'm pretty much the same weight, give or take
5 pounds, as I was in high school. I guess for most in the real world that's an achievement. But that's not what I wanted. I'm about the same height of Arnold and he was 225lbs when he won the O in 1980.
I thought it wouldn't be beyond the range of possibility to hit 200lbs with a bit higher percent body fat
that Arnold had in 1980.

Never got close.

[Danimal77]

As I fast approach 60 years of age I'm far more concerned with health, fitness, quality of life and no
pot belly. Still I wonder. What did I miss? I know I never had the genetic gift to be a muscular marvel
but you would think I could have done better. I mean, I'm pretty much the same weight, give or take
5 pounds, as I was in high school. I guess for most in the real world that's an achievement. But that's not what I wanted. I'm about the same height of Arnold and he was 225lbs when he won the O in 1980.
I thought it wouldn't be beyond the range of possibility to hit 200lbs with a bit higher percent body fat
that Arnold had in 1980.

Never got close.

Arnold was not 225 pounds at the 1980 Mr. O. It's a well-known fact that he was 212 or 213 pounds onstage that day.

[Natural_O]

Arnold was not 225 pounds at the 1980 Mr. O. It's a well-known fact that he was 212 or 213 pounds onstage that day.

That sounds about right for Arnold's weight in 1980 because he was only 225 when he won the Olympia in '75.

[Natural_O]

Here is Mentzer backstage at the 1976 Mr. America. Waist is super small.

[BSN]

Here is Mentzer backstage at the 1976 Mr. America. Waist is super small.

Great photo. I remember there's a photo of Zane from the same event, in great condition.

[Disgusted]

Here is Mentzer backstage at the 1976 Mr. America. Waist is super small.

Dianabol was a hell of a drug.

[dj181]

Something Jones said has stuck with me for life and a principle I follow. "Below a certain threshold of
intensity exercise will do little or nothing for size, strength and functional ability." That if you keep
working within your functional ability, doing things that are already easy, then you will not stimulate an
adaptive response. If you can do, say, 8 reps on a pullup, and always do 8 and never attempting a 9th,
there is no reason for your body to adapt because there's nothing to adapt to. No matter how many
low intensity sets you do you will never hit that "break over" point where you are trying to get your body
to do something it hasn't done before.

That's what sold me on to Jones, and later, Mentzer. It just made intuitive sense. But I've been training
nonstop with weights for 46 years and have tried many different protocols over the decades. There
has to be something more. I remember a girl in high school who was confined to a wheelchair. A little
skinny Asian girl but she had noticeable developed triceps. Everything else about her was skinny but
her tris stood out. No special diet, no high intensity, no negative resistance. Just pushing on those
wheels as long as she can remember. All high volume, low intensity, zero negatives, regular rice
heavy diet yet better tris than I had and the majority of the boys, with the exception of maybe three,
that went to that school.

As I fast approach 60 years of age I'm far more concerned with health, fitness, quality of life and no
pot belly. Still I wonder. What did I miss? I know I never had the genetic gift to be a muscular marvel
but you would think I could have done better. I mean, I'm pretty much the same weight, give or take
5 pounds, as I was in high school. I guess for most in the real world that's an achievement. But that's not what I wanted. I'm about the same height of Arnold and he was 225lbs when he won the O in 1980.
I thought it wouldn't be beyond the range of possibility to hit 200lbs with a bit higher percent body fat
that Arnold had in 1980.

Never got close.

Same weight you were in high school even on gear and gh?

Is your body comp the same as well?

[oldschoolfan]

Mentzer's training when through so many changes. The workouts he recommended after he retired looked like nothing he did in his competitive years. He started as a teen using a combo of bodybuilding, power lifting and olympic lifting. He then went onto high volume. Then he went to whole body routines training his entire body using a combination of Nautilus and free weights. He won the IFBB version of the Mr America contest training like this. He used one to two work sets after warm up. Then he went to a split. One day was legs, chest and triceps. The next was back, delts and biceps. He would work out four days a week. Usually Mon, Tues, Thursay and Friday though he was fond of saying the calendar doesn't determine his work out day. Lastly influenced by Frank Calta a Mr. Florida winner he used his rotation for recuperation split.  Monday would be his legs, chest and tri. Wednesday was his back, delts and biceps. Friday he would be back to legs, chest and triceps. The next week he would begin Monday with back, delt and bicep. Wednesday would be his legs, chest and triceps. Friday he would do back, delt and biceps. Again he would use one to two sets after warm up. Those crazy workouts done once every 4 to 5 days were nothing he ever used during his competitive days.

I talked to one guy who use to train in the same gym who claimed he used a lot more sets than he talked about but having read just about everything Mike wrote I came to the conclusion they were non taxing warm ups. If Mike did two work sets in the leg press I'm sure he did at least two warm up sets prior to going to his hard to failure one to two sets.

I have saved everything he wrote in the magazines. It would make a great book if it was combined.

old timer i train somewhat h.i.t style the one thing i do not receomend to anyone if training that way is you should get throughly warmed up and work your way up to the max set, there is no way i could do say one or two warm up sets on my first exercise and then jump into an all out max set heavy,

[NotMrAverage]

What do you think was the cause of that?

What year did he score a perfect score?

He lost alot of size because he got into amphetamines and also overdieted on 500 kcal aday to get cut like Frank Zane.

[Danimal77]

That sounds about right for Arnold's weight in 1980 because he was only 225 when he won the Olympia in '75.

Yup. People always claim how small Arnold was in 1980 and it's true, he was really light, but not everyone realizes that he had already downsized big-time at the 1975 Mr. O. The man was 245 or 250 pounds onstage in 1974 (some say as low as 237-240 pounds though) and then he went down to 200 pounds even pre-1975 Mr. O prep and put on 25 pounds of muscle for the 1975 competition where he weighed 225 pounds. He did weigh only 230 pounds in 1970, which was also pounds less than he weighed in 1969 when he showed up onstage at 250 pounds and lost to Sergio (Arnold's 1st and last Mr. Olympia loss ever).

[NotMrAverage]

Yup. People always claim how small Arnold was in 1980 and it's true, he was really light, but not everyone realizes that he had already downsized big-time at the 1975 Mr. O. The man was 245 or 250 pounds onstage in 1974 and had shed at least 20 pounds by 1975. He did weigh only 230 pounds in 1970, which was also pounds less than he weighed in 1969 when he showed up onstage at 250 pounds and lost to Sergio (Arnold's 1st and last Mr. Olympia loss ever).

Correct! Wonder how freaky he would have been looking if they shot pumping iron in 1974. He trained for three months before that film i believe?

[Danimal77]

Correct! Wonder how freaky he would have been looking if they shot pumping iron in 1974. He trained for three months before that film i believe?

I actually edited the post you quoted. Arnold had gone down to 200 pounds (completely off his cycle) BEFORE they started filming Pumping Iron and he gained 25 pounds during his training for the 1975 Mr. O bringing him up to 225 pounds. Yeah, had they filmed Pumping Iron a year earlier for his 1974 Mr. O pre-contest training, it would have been pretty impressive to see.

Mike Mentzer claims that Arnold's best contest bodyweight was 237 pounds, but I'm not sure which contest (Mr. Olympia) he's referring to?

[NotMrAverage]

I think ive read Arnold was close to 250 at his biggest. I think that was early on in 1971. After that he went more for cuts and was in his prime in 73 and 74. 237 sounds accurate. Arnold was my inspiration to start bb. He was freaky but still human... Today its to much chemical warfare!

Arnold days: steroids

Today: steroids, gh, insulin, igf-1, synthol, peptides

[The Scott]

If you must take drugs, this and not some fatazz slob like Coleman or Cutler ( a fine pair of Elephant Seals they were) is what you should aim to look like.  Superb.

[Thin Lizzy]

There’s really no debate here. Mentzer was on another level.

[beakdoctor]

There’s really no debate here. Mentzer was on another level.

can you believe that smug prick Chicherillo thinks his physique is better than Mentzers? ha!

[pellius]

Same weight you were in high school even on gear and gh?

Is your body comp the same as well?

No gh. Off and on with gear. Dr. Walczak prescribed 200mg every two weeks of Deca and after starting
you on one 5mg/day Ciba dianabol would work your way up to 3 tabs. Was against using Test and didn't prescribe it.

Body weight did vary occasionally over the last 4 decades when I would go on a bulking binge which
would only get me fat. When I would stop stuffing myself with food I would eventually go back
down to my regular weight and body composition.

[BSN]

1979

[Thin Lizzy]

can you believe that smug prick Chicherillo thinks his physique is better than Mentzers? ha!

Bob has a very impressive physique but Mentzer is one of the very best of all time.

[beakdoctor]

who was the better bodybuilder? IDK.  But there was a picture of MM hitting a most muscular pose on the beach up on some rocks. looked like an overcast day. picture was from the was it up. he was thick and vascular as a cock. that picture made me start working out seriously. Picture had to be from 78 or 79.

both were fairly evenly accomplished. both of their ifbb careers were relatively short. they were both influential in the HIT chapter of bodybuilding. Hard to say. both had similar weaknesses. Casey was more complete. Mike had more WOW factor..... but that pic of Mike motivates me to this day 40 years after I first saw it.

[Danimal77]

I think ive read Arnold was close to 250 at his biggest. I think that was early on in 1971. After that he went more for cuts and was in his prime in 73 and 74. 237 sounds accurate. Arnold was my inspiration to start bb. He was freaky but still human... Today its to much chemical warfare!

Arnold days: steroids

Today: steroids, gh, insulin, igf-1, synthol, peptides

He weighed 250 pounds at the 1969 Mr. O as well. He cut down to 230 pounds for the 1970 Mr. O. This was said in the A&E documentary. As for him looking his largest that would either be 1971 or 1974. He supposedly was 246 pounds in 1971 and possibly 237 pounds in 1974. He was his most shredded and cut in 1973.

[Danimal77]

1979

Imo Mike looked much better (fuller) in 1979 than he did in 1980 where his entire chest was completely deflated.