Just did legs -- feel like crap

[Humble Narcissist]

I started training at 19.  I was doing HIT the entire time until I was about 45.  After that I started getting injured more frequently, and very tired.  Now at 52, I simply cannot train all-out anymore.  Even with a good diet and plenty of rest it takes days to recover.  Getting old truly sucks.  Still, it's better to be a 'has-been' than a 'wanna-be'.  I'm going to hold off on TRT for as long as possible.

This may sound weak but using Charles Atlas principles applied to weight training works well.  Train don't strain and do something everyday.  After workouts you should feel pumped and invigorated not run down and exhausted.  Use these principles for weight training (not dynamic tension) and you will hang on for a lot longer and not need TRT.  The problem with TRT is once you go on it's for life because if you are on for years and come off you will really feel fat, weak and low energy.

[Primemuscle]

No, no virsus. You don't get a virus training legs or training anything. And if I was coming down with anything I would feel it before I get to the gym. I know when I'm starting to get sick. I came into the gym eager and anxious to blast. When you take a set, especially for a large muscle group like legs, to positive failure. Meaning you can't eek out another rep to save your life, then you do a few forced reps, then rest pauses where you lock out, take three deep breaths and bang out another forced rep, do that for four more reps, with every rep lowered in a slow, deliberate fashion so that it burns going down, then immediately grab a 45lb plate holding it between your legs for wide leg Sumo-type squats for another 15 reps, then do some bodyweight squats until your ready to drop to the floor --- for the first set. Then leg curls again with forced reps, rest pause, burns. Then a superset of extensions and leg press in the same fashion with the Sumo squats and bodyweight squats, followed by a set of stiff leg deads -- then it was probably more overexertion then a virus. I'm almost sixty goddamn years old now!
move for twenty minutes. Sergio claimed he was in his biggest and best shape training under Jones in Deland, Florida.

Anyway, I got my appetite back and had some chicken, rice, steamed vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower and carrots) and three oatmeal raisin cookies. I'm now in that
 I feel much, much better now from just lying on the couch for a couple of hours to give my body a chance to normalize. I was thinking if maybe this was how Sergio Oliva felt after Arthur Jones' put him through his infamous quad routine which consisted of one set of leg press, followed immediately by one set of leg extension, then heading straight to the squat rack. Every set done to the death under Jones' watchful and demanding eye. Witnesses said that after finishing up with squats Sergio fell to the floor and didn't pleasantly fatigued relaxed mode and already drifting off to sleep.

Two days of loafing and recovering and I'll be back Friday ready to go full on HIT Arthur Jones' style for chest, back, and shoulders.

Good to know you are feeling better.

It's not about when you catch a virus; it is about when symptoms start which can be anytime, even in the middle of a workout.

[Conker]

It's probably just aids. Don't worry too much they have goods drugs for it now.

[Vince B]

Interesting how two of our knowledgeable trainees are experiencing problems as they age.

First the Coach and now Pellius.

Seems to me Pellius is too set in his ways re training and diet. A recipe for problems.

I agree that each workout should aim at getting a training effect and that requires a big effort.

With any moving system differences occur which means you cannot always repeat what you did before.

Knowing what to do and what not to do takes experience and we have to be ready to learn no matter how old we are.

Pellius could use some safety fat. He is paying now for all that combat training over the years.

[Humble Narcissist]

Gains never continue forever for anyone but especially for naturals.  A person has to change their mindset from growth to maintenance once they reach their peak.  This is very difficult for many and impossible for some.  This is why HIT is a failure over the long run as a trainer thinks he has to beat the last workout continuously and this is simply not possible.

[chaos]

Interesting how two of our knowledgeable trainees are experiencing problems as they age.

First the Coach and now Pellius.

Seems to me Pellius is too set in his ways re training and diet. A recipe for problems.

I agree that each workout should aim at getting a training effect and that requires a big effort.

With any moving system differences occur which means you cannot always repeat what you did before.

Knowing what to do and what not to do takes experience and we have to be ready to learn no matter how old we are.

Pellius could use some safety fat. He is paying now for all that combat training over the years.

They're old, let's list your health issues, tubby.

[pellius]

Training to failure is a waste.  You can make the same gains training much easier.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a waste". You don't think there is any benefit at all? At my age, I don't expect to make "gains". What kind of gains have you made in the last year? What I consider a waste is the countless hours people spend in the gym every day with very little to no results. I train just twice a week for barely an hour. I have a lot of time out of the gym to rest and do other things in life.

Sounds like you sent your central nervous system into shock
Maybe depleted carb stores also.

You’ve rested & your cns has recovered from that state allowing you to eat & you’re already feeling
Much improved from where you were.

Training in that manner is brutally hard on your cns let alone mentally & physically
I doubt there are very many who are capable of training / pushing themselves that hard.

I don’t see it as wrong - That’s how you train on a regular basis mentally you’re prepared
And able to push yourself physically that hard.

Taking someone who does multi sets / multi reps pumping style & even attempting to get
Them to do a similar workout would very likely put them off ever training again.
And there attempt would fall far short of your exertion level as they’d not be able to physically
Let alone mentally challeng themselves to the same degree.

It work for you & you enjoy it - that good.
Weather it’s necessary to go that limit for muscular growth is an entirely different subject.

If you are “Natural” & “Drug free” increasing rest days between workouts may be of benefit
Though reading you I’ve no doubt you’ve already considered/ tried this.

I still haven't recovered from Thanksgiving and have been eating cookies, ice-cream, doughnuts, brownies... That's why I have to avoid sugar. Once I start I'm like an addict. So I was -- am -- pretty carbed up.

I'm not sure if it is the optimal way to stimulate muscle hypertrophy. I mean, other than Dorian, all the top of the top bbers in history trained in the traditional multi-set volume type approach.

I prefer this type of approach because I also want to develop and maintain some mental and physical toughness. Being accustom to pushing myself and have my body conditioned for physical exertion.

And I don't consider myself natural as I've been on TRT for the last 15 years. But I have no reverence for the concept of natural. Very little of what we do and have is "natural."

I did HIT training until about age 35 and then scaled back the intensity while still doing lower volume and it made no difference in muscle size plus I have more energy and enjoy training more.  One reason people quit training when they get older is they don't enjoy it and if your workout are brutal all the time you probably won't enjoy it.  Look at all the HIT guys who were injured or just quit early.  I'm reading a book on Arthur Jones now and he would go years between workouts because if he couldn't go all out he couldn't train at all.

It's true, intense training, or any kind of training for that matter, is something not many keep up with their entire lives. When I think of the original gang that I hung with back in the day there is only one other guy that still keeps it up. Because I don't train every day and do take a week break every three months or so I don't really get burnt out. As I mentioned before, I've been training consistently with weights for over 46 years so it's just part of my life and I would feel a big void if I just quit altogether.

I can relate to Jones. If I don't push myself I rather just stay home and take a break. Why waste my time just going through the motions. My mentality when doing a set is that once I reach positive failure, when I can't do another strict rep, I say to myself, "And now it begins." Meaning now we get serious this when it counts.

He just suffered an adverse reaction to his workout on that occasion likely a few factors
Caused it - He’s not saying this is a regular occurrence after train if it is then that’s cause
For concern or should be for Him.

Yes, this is not a common occurrence. The last time it happened when I got sick was maybe about  8 years ago after my first work set which again was legs. Back then I was more focused on progression and was stuck at a certain weight for a certain number of reps. This time I was determined to break that plateau. I was psyching myself up all week for that set. It was squats done on a Smith Machine for safety reasons so if I got stuck I could just rack it. But I approach that bar with a do or die attitude. I was going to get those reps no matter what.

I did barely get that extra damn rep but after I racked it I felt so light headed and dizzy and had to lay flat on the ground for about five minutes until someone asked me if I was all right. I said I was just being lazy and got up but could barely walk to the corner where I just sat there for about a half an hour before I felt I could drive back home safely.

Other than that and yesterday I never really got sick from training. I've gotten pretty exhausted where I had to sit down to get my breath but not sick.

  
 

All joking aside, that BP is low enough to warrant a trip to the ER.  You should go to the hospital. 

On a side note, I'm highly surprised Coach didn't advise you to eat some cereal.   

I'm fine now. Everything is back to normal. BP at 115/80.

[pellius]

You’re going to die. HTH.

I know. We're all going to die.

[pellius]

Interesting how two of our knowledgeable trainees are experiencing problems as they age.

First the Coach and now Pellius.

Seems to me Pellius is too set in his ways re training and diet. A recipe for problems.

I agree that each workout should aim at getting a training effect and that requires a big effort.

With any moving system differences occur which means you cannot always repeat what you did before.

Knowing what to do and what not to do takes experience and we have to be ready to learn no matter how old we are.

Pellius could use some safety fat. He is paying now for all that combat training over the years.

Vince, Vince, Vince, Why do you keep saying things that you know are simply not true? I am too set in my ways with regard to training and diet. Have you forgotten that no small part due to you I've cut my protein intake from 350-400 grams a day to about 90? My training has varied from 4x/wk, once every 3 days, 3 times per week, once every two days, to my now present twice a week which I've been doing for about six months. My rep scheme and exercise choices changes constantly. My intensity variables also vary from workout to workout. I've made more changes to both diet and training in the last year than you have in your life. It is you who are stuck on your unproven training theories.

And yes, I am paying for the decades of getting beat up every day. There's more to life than just being safe and avoid getting hurt. Those years were the best years of my life and has given me memories and experiences that I will cherish forever. 

[Humble Narcissist]

Vince, Vince, Vince, Why do you keep saying things that you know are simply not true? I am too set in my ways with regard to training and diet. Have you forgotten that no small part due to you I've cut my protein intake from 350-400 grams a day to about 90? My training has varied from 4x/wk, once every 3 days, 3 times per week, once every two days, to my now present twice a week which I've been doing for about six months. My rep scheme and exercise choices changes constantly. My intensity variables also vary from workout to workout. I've made more changes to both diet and training in the last year than you have in your life. It is you who are stuck on your unproven training theories.

And yes, I am paying for the decades of getting beat up every day. There's more to life than just being safe and avoid getting hurt. Those years were the best years of my life and has given me memories and experiences that I will cherish forever. 

Pellius, you are are in wayyyy better shape than Vince so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Vince B]

Pellius have you tried cutting out most of your training? Like too much protein, I feel most trainees do too many body parts. Pointless and taxing.

Have you gained any muscle size in the last 20 or 30 years? That should always be a goal. Well, staying the same is an achievement as we get old.

Part of the fountain of youth is to consistently trigger growth without any drugs. Your body will provide what you need.

[SF1900]

[pellius]

Gains never continue forever for anyone but especially for naturals.  A person has to change their mindset from growth to maintenance once they reach their peak.  This is very difficult for many and impossible for some.  This is why HIT is a failure over the long run as a trainer thinks he has to beat the last workout continuously and this is simply not possible.

Again, the purpose for me is not to get bigger muscles but to condition my body for intense physical exertion and to have a strong and determined mental attitude that I can use for other challenges in life. I want to develop and maintain an aggressive and resolute mentality for anything that I do in life. I look at all the people on their cell phones, watching TV, sitting on machines just sleepwalking through their workouts. Just like how they probably do in life. I was told once by a gym owner, Mr. Barlow, that he could tell what kind of people they were by watching them train. Most just sleepwalk through life always taking the easiest road to travel waiting to be told what to do.

[pellius]

Pellius have you tried cutting out most of your training? Like too much protein, I feel most trainees do too many body parts. Pointless and taxing.

Have you gained any muscle size in the last 20 or 30 years? That should always be a goal. Well, staying the same is an achievement as we get old.

Part of the fountain of youth is to consistently trigger growth without any drugs. Your body will provide what you need.

Vincent, please pay attention. I train twice a week and my workouts are less than an hour. How much more can I cut from my training?

No, I have not gained much muscle size in the last 20-30  years. In fact, I have lost about twenty pounds since my pristine peak when I was in my mid-thirties. Your point?

You refuse to accept the indisputable fact that you will lose muscle, strength, height, cognitive function... EVERYTHING! as you get older until you finally waste away and die.

As you get older your body WILL NOT provide everything you need to trigger growth. Your HGH levels and Testosterone levels decline with age. You need these hormones for growth. And ever that is not enough! Even guys that are juiced to the gills lose muscle as they age. Look at Jay Cutler's or Branch Warren's last Olympia outing. I'm sure Jay was on more gear than he was when he first made a splash in 2001.

[wes]

What a bunch of non-training pussies in this thread!! 

If I can`t train balls out,I don`t train at all.

[pellius]

What a bunch of non-training pussies in this thread!!  

If I can`t train balls out,I don`t train at all.

LOL! Remember the old days when guys use to puke in the rubbish can while doing squats. I remember Benny Podda eeking out one more rep with 495 when blood squirted out of his nose. No wonder why those guys in the 80s and 90s look like they had real muscle than the bloated mess today.

Just think, back in the early 80s, 35 years ago, these guys never got their pro card.

[cephissus]

Pellius whats your daily routine like outside of the gym?

[Vince B]

Vincent, please pay attention. I train twice a week and my workouts are less than an hour. How much more can I cut from my training?

No, I have not gained much muscle size in the last 20-30  years. In fact, I have lost about twenty pounds since my pristine peak when I was in my mid-thirties. Your point?

You refuse to accept the indisputable fact that you will lose muscle, strength, height, cognitive function... EVERYTHING! as you get older until you finally waste away and die.

As you get older your body WILL NOT provide everything you need to trigger growth. Your HGH levels and Testosterone levels decline with age. You need these hormones for growth. And ever that is not enough! Even guys that are juiced to the gills lose muscle as they age. Look at Jay Cutler's or Branch Warren's last Olympia outing. I'm sure Jay was on more gear than he was when he first made a splash in 2001.

Pellius I don't understand why you resist taking good advice from someone who thinks differently from you.

Since you are steadily declining over the years what does that tell you? You are doing something wrong.

You need a goal such as gaining one inch on your arms. Then set about to achieve that. Shouldn't be that difficult.

After you see that you can still grow it will change what you do. There is no point getting a consistency award

because of repeating the same old workouts. Try to gain some size. It is not a given that as we age we lose muscle

size. I have proven it to myself. So it could be possible for diehards like yourself. I don't take any drugs or supplements.

[Twaddle]

What a bunch of non-training pussies in this thread!! 

If I can`t train balls out,I don`t train at all.

Typical 70 year old in the gym.  Always training with balls out.   

[Skeletor]

Typical 70 year old in the gym.  Always training with balls out.   

[Vince B]

No homo here!

[SOMEPARTS]

A lot of injured and out of shape guys telling the old ripped guy how to live in here.

[Vince B]

A lot of injured and out of shape guys telling the old ripped guy how to live in here.

There are two things daunting for most blokes. Getting up on stage competing, and posting a photo on Getbig. What you!

[oldtimer1]

"Sergio claimed he was in his biggest and best shape training under Jones in Deland, Florida."

He was only there for a couple of weeks. He then competed against Bill Pearl for the Mr. Universe in 71.  Sergio wasn't at his best and Pearl was at his all time best. Later that year Sergio took his body to insane levels. Sergio competed for so many years in various states of size and condition. At his best he was untouchable. Anyone who has seen him train through the years will vouch that he trained with volume and a lot of it. Sergio always had a fondness for Arthur Jones. He was one of the few in bodybuilding that actually paid him a decent buck.

[Primemuscle]

Gains never continue forever for anyone but especially for naturals.  A person has to change their mindset from growth to maintenance once they reach their peak.  This is very difficult for many and impossible for some.  This is why HIT is a failure over the long run as a trainer thinks he has to beat the last workout continuously and this is simply not possible.

Is Pellius actually still looking for gains? If he is, I understand because it is what motivated many of us from the beginning. At some point, which I thought Pellius had reached, weight training goals become more precise. By the time one gets to my age, the just want to maintain as much good health and fitness as possible. It is important, regardless of age, to be realistic. Not everyone will become the next Arnold or whomever they idolize.

After too long of a layoff, I went to the gym and worked arms; triceps, biceps and forearms by jumping right back into my old routine. The workout went fine. For the whole of the next week I was in pain. So much so that I failed because of lost ambition to continue going to the gym. Moral of this story is that sometimes, too much is really too much. This is when it becomes counterproductive.