Author Topic: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop  (Read 1535 times)

Palumboism

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Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop

By Ronnie Schreiber on March 18, 2019
the truth about cars .com

Tell the truth — when driving by a police office operating a speed trap at the side of the road, have you ever been tempted to make a rude gesture? You know the one I’m talking about: the single digit, middle finger salute. A United States Court of Appeals has now confirmed judicially that it’s your right to do so, if you choose.

When Debra Cruise-Gulyas was pulled over for speeding in Taylor, Michigan by Officer Matthew Minard in 2017, she gave in to that very temptation. Well, not right away. After he stopped her, Officer Minard had apparently gave Cruise-Gulyas a bit of a break, citing her for a non-moving violation instead of speeding. Not mollified by the break she got, following the stop, as she drove away, Cruise decided to make a crude gesture directed at the police officer.

As the court put it, “she made an all-too-familiar gesture at Minard with her hand and without four of her fingers showing.”

Apparently piqued that he was not shown sufficient gratitude for his act of grace, Minard turned his emergency lights on and pulled Cruise-Gulyas over again, voiding the original ticket and instead rewrote her up for speeding. Cruise-Gulyas sued, arguing that she and her middle finger have rights to free expression under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

In a unanimous 3-0 ruling earlier this week, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th federal circuit agreed. “Fits of rudeness or lack of gratitude may violate the Golden Rule,” Judge Jeffrey Sutton wrote in the decision. “But that doesn’t make them illegal or for that matter punishable.”

The case didn’t just hinge on the First Amendment. The Fourth Amendment’s protections against “unreasonable” search and seizure require police to have a reason to pull you over. Once the first stop ended, the court ruled, those conditions no longer existed, making the second stop unconstitutional. “Cruise-Gulyas did not break any law that would justify the second stop and at most was exercising her free speech rights,” the court wrote.

The judges said that not only was her middle finger not cause for pulling her over, her rights to flip off the cop were well established Constitutional law. “Any reasonable officer would know that a citizen who raises her middle finger engages in speech protected by the First Amendment,” Sutton wrote.

Minard testified that he acted similarly to how a prosecutor might withdraw a plea bargain if a defendant subsequently acted inappropriately. The court, however, said that the facts of the case were more like “a judge who hauls the defendant back into court a week or two after imposing a sentence based on the defendant’s after-the-fact speech,” the court said. “Minard, in short, clearly had no proper basis for seizing Cruise-Gulyas a second time.”

The 6th Circuit ruling was on a procedural matter. The ruling allows Cruise-Gulyas’ lawsuit over the stop to proceed in a lower court.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/03/federal-appeals-court-confirms-your-right-to-flip-off-a-traffic-cop/#more-1665742

I don't think I'll be testing this out.  :)

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 09:41:19 AM »
My dad used to flip off all the cops in the town I grew up.Everytime we drove by.Then one time he knocked out the chief of police at the local convenience store.Not much happened being it was the late 80s.Used to love driving around with my dad in his vette as he flipped off all the cops.

Cops are nothing special,I flip off a regular person as easy as I will flip off a cop.

beakdoctor

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 09:47:01 AM »
My dad used to flip off all the cops in the town I grew up.Everytime we drove by.Then one time he knocked out the chief of police at the local convenience store.Not much happened being it was the late 80s.Used to love driving around with my dad in his vette as he flipped off all the cops.

Cops are nothing special,I flip off a regular person as easy as I will flip off a cop.

You, and your dad, both siund like real dumbasses.

Either this story is true and youre an idiot or its not true and youre a liar.

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 09:54:19 AM »
You, and your dad, both siund like real dumbasses.

Either this story is true and youre an idiot or its not true and youre a liar.

why ?
it sounds plausible There are many Arrogant Bullying Cops who Think they are untouchable
Because they have a uniform & badge - They like any other person behaving that way Need Bringing down
A few pegs.

Dave D

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 10:21:17 AM »
My dad used to flip off make love with all the cops in the town I grew up.Everytime we drove by.Then one time he knocked out up the chief of police at the local convenience store.Not much happened being it was the late 80s.Used to love driving around with my dad in his vette as he flipped off made love to all the cops.

Cops are nothing special,I flip off make love to a regular person as easy as I will flip offmake love to a cop.

I'm assuming these cops were women?

Notomorrow

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 11:13:16 AM »
They have the God like right to end a human life on the spot, often by shotting someone in the back running away, beat the shit out of people, and even when off duty do not have to obey the law as one flash of the badge trumps whatever law they broke.

We in turn get the right to flip them off. Sounds like a fair deal. Although the right is fake, as no cop is going to cite someone for flipping them off. He has a whole host of things he can make up if he's pissed that are basically impossible to defend, from illegal turns to "suspicious behavior".

Primemuscle

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 11:58:19 AM »
flipping off folks is not something I'm proud of. Flipping off a cop is just plain stupid. I flipped off a jerk driver in San Fransisco and it immediately turned into a road rage situation. You never know when the person you're giving the finger to is a complete nut job. -best to avoid it, even though it momentarily feels good to do it.

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2019, 12:21:17 PM »
flipping off folks is not something I'm proud of. Flipping off a cop is just plain stupid. I flipped off a jerk driver in San Fransisco and it immediately turned into a road rage situation. You never know when the person you're giving the finger to is a complete nut job. -best to avoid it, even though it momentarily feels good to do it.

They do that with me, they re messing with a warrior.

Dave D

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2019, 12:22:49 PM »
They do that with me, they re messing with a warrior.

Darren your war is with customers signing up for nector rewards.


robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 12:25:16 PM »
You, and your dad, both siund like real dumbasses.

Either this story is true and youre an idiot or its not true and youre a liar.

My dad is a retired man with not much work in his life.Has a few homes and lives a great life so he is not an idiot.He is old school and hates Blacks and cops.

Just cause you are a Mary and would be afraid to do such things don’t get mad at me.In my world and my fathers.A man is big,strong and will fight for what he thinks is right.I saw my father beat guys up into his mid 50s.

So you can take your liar and idiot comments and stick them up what I imagine is a liberal asshole.

Also think as you will,just responding to a thread and you come in talking shit.I don’t jump on anyone until they jump on me.Always the internet pussies who attack people.I don’t as its keyboard bullshit and means nothing.So why not just go act tough in person with someone instead of someone on internet?Oh yeah cause you sir are a liberal pussy.

Liar,idiot,whatever it’s thebinternet so everything could be a lie but why would I lie about it to people I don’t know.My fathers war with the police has many More tales than this but I will keep them to myself as you are a shit talker and I don’t care for that.

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 12:33:45 PM »
They have the God like right to end a human life on the spot, often by shotting someone in the back running away, beat the shit out of people, and even when off duty do not have to obey the law as one flash of the badge trumps whatever law they broke.

We in turn get the right to flip them off. Sounds like a fair deal. Although the right is fake, as no cop is going to cite someone for flipping them off. He has a whole host of things he can make up if he's pissed that are basically impossible to defend, from illegal turns to "suspicious behavior".

That mentality is what makes them think they can do this stuff.Stand up to them and they leave you alone.I drive a lot of rental cars with out of state plates and I used to get pulled over until one day I snapped and gave the cop back all the attitude he gave me and it lasted about 10 minutes until he said it wasn’t worth it,now I never get pulled over and I drive 20-30 over speed limit allday.They leave people alone who don’t take their shit and are not criminals.That badge means about as much to me as a security badge.Now if a cop is cool then we are cool.you don’t get respect from me you earn it.

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 12:38:27 PM »
I'm assuming these cops were women?

Nope definitely not.My uncle did 3-4 years for A&B on a few cops years ago.My family really does not like cops.I don’t care either way,if you are cool then you are cool but I’m not respecting anyone cause of a badge and gun.

ratherbebig

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 12:41:27 PM »
i dont have anything better to do with my time so i beat people up and flip off traffic cops all the time.

history has shown that this is a good attitude to have, for example, in prison nearly everyone has this attitude.

the rest usually live in ghettos and trailerparks.

Primemuscle

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 12:55:19 PM »
They do that with me, they re messing with a warrior.

Warriors die just as easily as non-warriors. They are also more subject to a violent death. So take your mean and scary mask off and just be a regular person.

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2019, 12:58:53 PM »
You have the right to give a cop the finger. The cop also has the right and discretion to issue every ticket he can think of instead of a written or verbal warning.  Many cops will give a slower speed in a speeding ticket to reduce the severity so your insurance won't be increased. Many go a step further and give a non moving violation in lieu of a speeding ticket so it doesn't go on your driving record. The choice is yours though. Treat a cop like shit and give him the finger or treat him with respect.  Give the bull the finger and you get the horns.  

Primemuscle

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2019, 01:00:36 PM »
That mentality is what makes them think they can do this stuff.Stand up to them and they leave you alone.I drive a lot of rental cars with out of state plates and I used to get pulled over until one day I snapped and gave the cop back all the attitude he gave me and it lasted about 10 minutes until he said it wasn’t worth it,now I never get pulled over and I drive 20-30 over speed limit allday.They leave people alone who don’t take their shit and are not criminals.That badge means about as much to me as a security badge.Now if a cop is cool then we are cool.you don’t get respect from me you earn it.

So then, you gave one single cop attitude and now all cops give you a pass. Cops must have a hell of a network. ::) If I were a cop and clocked you driving that much over the speed limit, I'd pull you over and give you a ticket for breaking the law and I'd do it as politely as possible.

Primemuscle

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2019, 01:02:37 PM »
i dont have anything better to do with my time so i beat people up and flip off traffic cops all the time.

history has shown that this is a good attitude to have, for example, in prison nearly everyone has this attitude.

the rest usually live in ghettos and trailerparks.

That's pretty funny satire. I think I'd prefer a ghetto or a trailer-park to prison....just say'n.

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2019, 01:09:07 PM »
So then, you gave one single cop attitude and now all cops give you a pass. Cops must have a hell of a network. ::) If I were a cop and clocked you driving that much over the speed limit, I'd pull you over and give you a ticket for breaking the law and I'd do it as politely as possible.

There were a few run ins prior when I was a passenger and a couple other issues.So all in yes they don’t fuck with me any more.It makes sense,I’m not a criminal and I’m going to argue and make it difficult for them,these are town cops not city cops,so yes they would rather leave me alone than make a problem when one is not needed,I don’t brake the law except speeding.

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2019, 01:09:40 PM »
That's pretty funny satire. I think I'd prefer a ghetto or a trailer-park to prison....just say'n.

I’ll take prison over ghetto any day.

Primemuscle

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2019, 01:15:31 PM »
I've been pulled over very few times in 60 years of driving. When this has happened, I was polite, honest and respectful. All but two times, it got me out of a ticket. One time, the ticket was for not being able to prove I had current insurance. I provided proof of being insured to the traffic court. The second time, I pleaded innocent in court. When the cop testified, he cited a completely different violation than he'd written on the ticket. The judge dismissed the case.  

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2019, 01:23:14 PM »
My dad used to flip off all the cops in the town I grew up.Everytime we drove by.Then one time he knocked out the chief of police at the local convenience store.Not much happened being it was the late 80s.Used to love driving around with my dad in his vette as he flipped off all the cops.

Cops are nothing special,I flip off a regular person as easy as I will flip off a cop.

Your dad sounded like a real tough guy ::)
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2019, 01:27:05 PM »
Several cases have to gone to court over this and the decision has generally been that this gesture alone is not sufficient for a cop to arrest you or pull you over, no matter how some cops may think that "contempt of cop", "disorderly conduct" or "questioning their authoritay" is a heinous crime. See Swartz vs Insogna in 2013 for example:

Quote
This ancient gesture of insult is not the basis for a reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation or impending criminal activity.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1619484.html

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2019, 02:07:13 PM »


He would snap you in half I guarantee that.I don’t even like the guy as we have had our difference but I will not take away the fact he was a beast.Always tough guys on here talking shit,do you liaises have anything better to do?I know how I am in real life so I don’t start with anyone on here yet most of you do,Hmmm pussies.

Dave D

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2019, 03:10:54 PM »
Nope definitely not.My uncle did 3-4 years for A&B on a few cops years ago.My family really does not like cops.I don’t care either way,if you are cool then you are cool but I’m not respecting anyone cause of a badge and gun.

Lol I was trolling bro, I altered your post.

My family has a similar history and I was taught not to respect or trust cops but as an adult many of friends have been in law enforcement.

At the end of the day it's a job for the majority of these guys and like most jobs it can get to you,  you have bad employees, you're overworked and under appreciated.

I think most police officers are decent dudes, but the bad/corrupt/power tripping ones really ruin the reputation of the position.

robcguns

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Re: Federal Appeals Court Confirms Your Right to Flip Off a Traffic Cop
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2019, 03:13:58 PM »
Lol I was trolling bro, I altered your post.

My family has a similar history and I was taught not to respect or trust cops but as an adult many of friends have been in law enforcement.

At the end of the day it's a job for the majority of these guys and like most jobs it can get to you,  you have bad employees, you're overworked and under appreciated.

I think most police officers are decent dudes, but the bad/corrupt/power tripping ones really ruin the reputation of the position.

I know,I just had more shit to say so quoted you,your changes did make me laugh.
I’m cool with anyone if cool with me and that goes for cops,blacks,Mexicans anyone so I can’t handle when someone acts like an asshole.So if a cop wants to be cool I’m good but if he wants to be a dick I can be a bigger dick and I don’t care if I have to get arrested for it cause that is no big deal and it’s just to prove a point.From what you said I imagine you get it but seems a lot here don’t.