Phil Heath looking bloofy on 05-12-19

[XFACTOR]

But if you had to weigh the importance:

Drugs > training and diet

I don’t buy for a minute that they are all equally important. Drugs are WAY more important to bodybuilding success than any other factor (other than genetics).

It's not even a debate you are 100% correct.

[Matt]

I don’t have time to read all of this so I’ll just address you thinking I’m the only one. No, I’m not the only one and the most of the people that have competed at a higher level, trained with and have prepared pros are laughing their asses off right now thinking that like minded thinkers like you know more or have been there.

Do I down play the PED factor, of course not but  I’m tired reading incessant bullshit that it’s “all drugs” and if that were the case there would be no need for dieting or training but I’m going digress on this by just saying that most on here are going by pure speculation. No, you don’t know what you’re talking about simply because there are a million factors that no one took into consideration during his off-season including that bonehead Trigili and a few others that claim to be “experts” but literally parrot everything everyone says on here minus the drugs because like you, he didn’t think things through yet spouted his bullshit. Same with this “Ivan” clown (who the fuck is he again?)

Everyone has their opinion but for Christ sake at least have some common sense about it. Calling someone “lazy” because he doesn’t fit your idea of what off-season should look like is naive at best.

“The others on stage looked better, why didn’t he?”

Here’s your answer.

They’ve already competed 2/3 times this year and it’s MUCH easier to stay lean going into this GUEST POSING appearance. He and Aceto know better than anyone as to when to start his prep, not you, not me not anyone else on this board.

Am I saying Shawn will win again? Who knows but I can tell you if he doesn’t and he takes a 2nd 3rd 4th or whatever all you’re going to hear from the ones that think they know best is “I told you so” which in reality wouldn’t validate shit.

All drugs.

[Matt]

It's not even a debate you are 100% correct.

Correct.

Remove ONE factor from every bodybuilder, and those not using drugs would suffer/regress the most.

[Coach is Back!]

Correct.

Remove ONE factor from every bodybuilder, and those not using drugs would suffer/regress the most.

You remove the diet  factor in the coming weeks and the week leading up to being on stage and all of the drugs in the world are useless.

[che]

You remove the diet  factor in the coming weeks and the week leading up to being on stage and all of the drugs in the world are useless.

You remove all the drugs you are taking and you would be a 160 lbs skinny fat midget .

[Humble Narcissist]

I wasn’t even thinking about him, but damn, yeah, there’s one for the ages.

No training sophistication or effort to speak of, a “casual” diet and boatloads of good gear, and ... voila! Prime Dillett. An absolute monster and top-10 Olympia finalist.

Name some others as I'm sure there were quite a few who trained like shit.

[Coach is Back!]

You remove all the drugs you are taking and you would be a 160 lbs skinny fat midget .

And still outweigh you by 30lbs and look better

[XFACTOR]

Correct.

Remove ONE factor from every bodybuilder, and those not using drugs would suffer/regress the most.

If anyone argues this they are brain dead.  Take out diet but keep in juice you can look good and jacked.  Take out juice it just isn't possible. 

If anyone doesn't believe me apply it to yourself.

[Coach is Back!]

If anyone argues this they are brain dead.  Take out diet but keep in juice you can look good and jacked.  Take out juice it just isn't possible. 

If anyone doesn't believe me apply it to yourself.

I’m talking about contest prep not just walking around looking jacked

[Slik]

Bb look so dumb these days 

[Joe Valentino]

Bb look so dumb these days 

These Days? lol

[Fortress]

You remove the diet  factor in the coming weeks and the week leading up to being on stage and all of the drugs in the world are useless.

I witnessed one NPC National champion eat a diet of total shit/inconsistency, complete with daily junk-food excursion runs, step onstage huge and ripped.

His drug use was epic and on-point, though.

Witnessed the whole thing.

He won.

[che]

I witnessed one NPC National champion eat a diet of total shit/inconsistency, complete with daily junk-food excursion runs, step onstage huge and ripped.

His drug use was epic and on-point, though.

Witnessed the whole thing.

He won.

I have seen the same thing many times , drug addicts like The Coach talk like  they are something special,  deep inside they know the truth but don't want to admit it .

[XFACTOR]

I’m talking about contest prep not just walking around looking jacked

For contest prep you need 100% commitment to all of it.  Not possible without the synergy of everything.

[Coach is Back!]

For contest prep you need 100% commitment to all of it.  Not possible without the synergy of everything.

Exactly

[Coach is Back!]

I have seen the same thing many times , drug addicts like The Coach talk like  they are something special,  deep inside they know the truth but don't want to admit it .

You haven’t seen shit. Troll

[Dave D]

I witnessed one NPC National champion eat a diet of total shit/inconsistency, complete with daily junk-food excursion runs, step onstage huge and ripped.

His drug use was epic and on-point, though.

Witnessed the whole thing.

He won.

Why because he used GH?

Do we even consider GH a drug anymore?

[honest]

Genetic response to drugs is the most important factor after having the right genetics and shape, plenty of guys over the years have tried to overcome genetics with mgs and Ius, it just doesn't work no different to the 100m sprint, if your not naturally fast you can't be a sprinter, you need to be high 10 second 100m to be able to hit low 10s late 9s with drugs and win that medal. Drugs won't turn a guy who's a 12 second guy into Carl lewis, just like they won't turn a gym rat into Mr Olympia. They are a very important factor but only after your god given genetic base. Fertilizer will grow anything but it won't turn weeds into roses, you just get bigger weeds.  

[SF1900]

No, I'm not underemphasizing it, I'm saying you cannot have one without the other and equal effort has to be put into all three with diet coming first because to get the optimal effect of the steroid you have to have an eating plan that coincides with the use. I will say, nowadays you have to search wide and far to find anyone that trains hard anymore maybe not realizing that also makes a difference come game day.

I never said that one does not have to train or diet to be successful. However, an IFBB pro can have subpar training and subapr diet and still likely win a pro show (or compete in pro level shows) if they have the right genetics and the right drugs. A perfect example is Paul Dillet. Again, that is the power of drugs. Not to mention, all the pros who shrink to nothing once they go off gear, despite training and following a good meal plan.

Again, I never said diet and training were not important. What I am saying is that drugs are WAY more important than diet and training when it comes to the success of a bodybuilder, with diet and training the icing on the cake.

[SF1900]

You remove the diet  factor in the coming weeks and the week leading up to being on stage and all of the drugs in the world are useless.

And remove the drugs, and they would not even be an IFBB pro, let alone an NPC competitor. In fact, they would likely be 150 pound soaking wet.

That is what I am saying. Even if an IFBB pro screwed up his diet a week before the show, he may not come in first place, but he would still be a shredded monster who looks like an IFBB pro and still be able to step on an IFBB stage.

Now lets flip it around:

Take out the drugs completely, where is that IFBB pro?

[SF1900]

This is most accurate.

I’ve hung and trained extensively with top-level pros (even a Mr. Olympia) and drugs and good-to-great genetic response to said drugs is far and away the prevailing factor to success.

As I said above, and I agree with you, drugs is the prevailing factor, with a good diet and good training being the icing on the cake (to help increase the chances of victory).

[Joe Valentino]

You haven’t seen shit. Troll

Damn, Coach, has a new Troll. Somebody took my spot

[Joe Valentino]

And remove the drugs, and they would not even be an IFBB pro, let alone an NPC competitor. In fact, they would likely be 150 pound soaking wet.

That is what I am saying. Even if an IFBB pro screwed up his diet a week before the show, he may not come in first place, but he would still be a shredded monster who looks like an IFBB pro and still be able to step on an IFBB stage.

Now lets flip it around:

Take out the drugs completely, where is that IFBB pro?

Its down the drain?

[oldtimer1]

Take away the drugs and the hormone replacement off cycle and these muscle marvels look like crap. Some like they never trained in their life yet they want credit for their temporary physique.

[che]

Take away the drugs and the hormone replacement off cycle and these muscle marvels look like crap. Some like they never trained in their life yet they want credit for their temporary physique.

Exactly , The Coach is delusional,