Phil Heath looking bloofy on 05-12-19

[Coach is Back!]

Why wouldn't I know?

I've been training for years, got ready for a show, and have trained with NPC competitors.

My son who's 22 has been training for "years" along with most of the people in gyms across the world, lots of a people have got "ready" for a show but no mention of you competing in it, congrats, you can find NPC competitors in almost every LA or 24hr Fitness in the country...what's your point. none of this means anything. Show me a program (from you) starting from week 16 (or whenever you start a program) to the second someone walks on stage.

After all that, how can you imply that I know absolutely nothing about bodybuilding, diet and training?  For a natural, I have decent size without doing any drugs. Clearly, I know something about training and diet.

[SF1900]

So, how could I have made gains if I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about training? I obviously must know a little. No?

Anyway, I don't have to find you a program to know that drugs are more important than diet and training. The proof is in the pudding regarding drugs in bodybuilding.

Everyone here pretty much agrees with my sentiments, including people who know more than me such as Fortress. Fortress even backed up what I said and he has trained with pros and even wrote for bodybuilding magazine(s). Others here, who have a lifelong of training, competing, and training with others, including pros, also agree with me.

Plain and simple: You're wrong and will continue to be wrong.

[Coach is Back!]

So, how could I have made gains if I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about training? I obviously must know a little. No?

Anyway, I don't have to find you a program to know that drugs are more important than diet and training. The proof is in the pudding regarding drugs in bodybuilding.

Everyone here pretty much agrees with my sentiments, including people who know more than me such as Fortress. Fortress even backed up what I said and he has trained with pros and even wrote for bodybuilding magazine(s). Others here, who have a lifelong of training, competing, and training with others, including pros, also agree with me.

Plain and simple: You're wrong and will continue to be wrong.

I don't care. Give me a sample of a complete program from start to finish...include drugs and the last two week leading up to the stage.

[SF1900]

I don't care. Give me a sample of a complete program from start to finish...include drugs and the last two week leading up to the stage.

What type of program? There are different programs for different endeavors.

You also won't address how guys like Fortress, who knows just as much as you about training, diet and drugs, 100% agrees with my sentiments.

[funk51]

lol, yeah, that is the sad part.

Of course, the day of the show is the only thing that matters, but damn, for a Mr. Olympia, that looks pretty bad. 

                              contrast that with these guys 24-7-365 everyday condition.

[SF1900]

                              contrast that with these guys 24-7-365 everyday condition.

Crazy!!

[Coach is Back!]

What type of program? There are different programs for different endeavors.

You also won't address how guys like Fortress, who knows just as much as you about training, diet and drugs, 100% agrees with my sentiments.

Contest prep. We are talking about bodybuilding, aren't we? I'm 10 days out as of today. Am I relying more on drugs or on diet in these final days? What am I keeping in, what am I taking out? Do I get a cheat meal? When should I start depleting? Do i deplete? If I deplete, do I use a diet or drugs to deplete? If it's both, what's more important? Should I do a loading phase? If so, how should I do it? During this phase, is it more drugs or diet? Whatever you choose that takes precedence, explain what drugs and why. If it's diet, explain what foods and why? If it's both, explain how I use one to coincide with the other.

[SF1900]

Contest prep. We are talking about bodybuilding, aren't we? I'm 10 days out as of today. Am I relying more on drugs or on diet in these final days? What am I keeping in, what am I taking out? Do I get a cheat meal? When should I start depleting? Do i deplete? If I deplete, do I use a diet or drugs to deplete? If it's both, what's more important? Should I do a loading phase? If so, how should I do it? During this phase, is it more drugs or diet? Whatever you choose that takes precedence, explain what drugs and why. If it's diet, explain what foods and why? If it's both, explain how I use one to coincide with the other.

You would not be able to step on stage and look as you do if it wasn't for drugs.

What else is there to say? Again, Fortress and others have agreed with my sentiments.

I also don't understand why you're being triggered by a discussion.  Most here disagree with you on this topic such as Fortress and Oldtimer, and they know just as much as you do about this stuff.

It's simple: all parts matter such as drugs, diet and training. It's just that overall, drugs matter more. I think you even know this.

[Coach is Back!]

You would not be able to step on stage and look as you do if it wasn't for drugs.

What else is there to say? Again, Fortress and others have agreed with my sentiments.

I also don't understand why you're being triggered by a discussion.  Most here disagree with you on this topic such as Fortress and Oldtimer, and they know just as much as you do about this stuff.

It's simple: all parts matter such as drugs, diet and training. It's just that overall, drugs matter more. I think you even know this.

You keep moving the goal posts. I NEVER said you could compete without it. You said you knew. I asked for you to give a sample program.

[SF1900]

You keep moving the goal posts. I NEVER said you could compete without it. You said you knew. I asked for you to give a sample program.

Why would I need to give a sample program.

All I stated was that drugs are more important than diet and training, but that diet and training still do play a part. That's a fact.

Furthermore, think of it like this: When I go to the doctor and the doctor gives me an antibiotic, I don't have to know more than him or develop my own treatment, to trust what he says. In the same sense, other people who know more than me and possibly you, have backed up my sentiments. That's my evidence. I don't need to do anything more.

[Soul Crusher]

He looks 1000x better than this guy

Even Goodrum takes him at this point. 

[XFACTOR]

Contest prep. We are talking about bodybuilding, aren't we? I'm 10 days out as of today. Am I relying more on drugs or on diet in these final days? What am I keeping in, what am I taking out? Do I get a cheat meal? When should I start depleting? Do i deplete? If I deplete, do I use a diet or drugs to deplete? If it's both, what's more important? Should I do a loading phase? If so, how should I do it? During this phase, is it more drugs or diet? Whatever you choose that takes precedence, explain what drugs and why. If it's diet, explain what foods and why? If it's both, explain how I use one to coincide with the other.

Coach this is absolutely key, but when you're at the level these guys are at, things like diuretics and anadrol and whatever else they use to deplete, dehydrate, and stay full are all also very important.  That part can also kill you

 

[illuminati]

You should know better than to ask anyone especially myself to share a name of anyone I’ve helped. There, now know how I know EXACTLY what at least these guys were/are taking.

Just to add, I’m kinda done sharing pretty much anything with anyone on here, I mean, since you guys have all trained and prepared people for shows that have won, competed yourselves and know the process inside and out, know about diet, training and drugs I’ll just sit back and watch. I mean seriously, when was the last time you went to show to at least get an idea? How often do you go? Or does everyone shit on bodybuilding all year around only to ask for the live streams each year of Arnold and Olympia’s only to comment “they wouldn’t be shit without drugs” if that’s the case, why watch? Why be on here even commenting on something you don’t know enough about ?

Let it go Coach - To Many Wind up Merchants on here to really have a meaningful discussion.
Let them say & Think whatever they want.
You’re in great condition & Competing - Let these other experts with their knowledge & experience
Also get in great contest condition & compete.

[Dave D]

                              contrast that with these guys 24-7-365 everyday condition.

Funk why do you think Serge made zero improvements in 35 years?



Jk amazing consistency...

[Hulkotron]

This contest will only be settled definitively by a throwing of hands.

[che]

You would not be able to step on stage and look as you do if it wasn't for drugs.

What else is there to say? Again, Fortress and others have agreed with my sentiments.

I also don't understand why you're being triggered by a discussion.  Most here disagree with you on this topic such as Fortress and Oldtimer, and they know just as much as you do about this stuff.

It's simple: all parts matter such as drugs, diet and training. It's just that overall, drugs matter more. I think you even know this.

If he admits that drugs are the most important part in BB then he 's not special , Trust me  he knows without drugs he looks like shit, I've competed  in natural BB shows without drugs  or taking any  supplements , just whey protein, I've won two shows, 1 second place ,and  1 third place ,I have prepared my wife for many shows she won more than 20 overalls, no drugs or supplements , but this fat midget thinks he's the only one that knows about lifting and dieting 

[funk51]

Funk why do you think Serge made zero improvements in 35 years?



Jk amazing consistency...

                          he actually claimed to shrink his waist every year by small increments after his competition years. that was his main goal

[funk51]

Contest prep. We are talking about bodybuilding, aren't we? I'm 10 days out as of today. Am I relying more on drugs or on diet in these final days? What am I keeping in, what am I taking out? Do I get a cheat meal? When should I start depleting? Do i deplete? If I deplete, do I use a diet or drugs to deplete? If it's both, what's more important? Should I do a loading phase? If so, how should I do it? During this phase, is it more drugs or diet? Whatever you choose that takes precedence, explain what drugs and why. If it's diet, explain what foods and why? If it's both, explain how I use one to coincide with the other.

                       you can't go wrong consulting the master blaster's bible for all your contest needs.

[Coach is Back!]

If he admits that drugs are the most important part in BB then he 's not special , Trust me  he knows without drugs he looks like shit, I've competed  in natural BB shows without drugs  or taking any  supplements , just whey protein, I've won two shows, 1 second place ,and  1 third place ,I have prepared my wife for many shows she won more than 20 overalls, no drugs or supplements , but this fat midget thinks he's the only one that knows about lifting and dieting 

Your incompetent ass can’t even comprehend what I wrote in response to SF...lol.

[SF1900]

The weird thing is that Coach has said to me countless times that I have a good physique for a recreational, natural lifetime lifter.

Now, because I hurt his feelings, all of a sudden I am not even a 150 pounds soaking wet lol. 

Gotta love getbig. 

[che]

Your incompetent ass can’t even comprehend what I wrote in response to SF...lol.

[pellius]

Of the three factors being discussed: Nutrition, training, and hormones; I'm not sure it matters as to what is more important because if even one is neglected then everything falls apart.

Look at, say, an offseason prime Jay Cutler. He claimed to eat 8-10 meals a day to maintain and grow muscle mass. If he dropped to three meals even with the drugs and hard training within six months he'd look like an entirely different person. If maintained the diet, took hormones but stopped training entirely then again it would be a huge difference. Same with training and eating but off hormones entirely.

I do think that if you go off drugs but still keep an intense training routine and follow a good diet that difference, the lost of pro-level physique, wouldn't be as dramatic then if you continued to take drugs and eat well but zero training.

People like to point out how much a bber has shrunk in retirement and use that as proof that it's "all drugs". But don't you think that the fact they are no longer training and eating as much also play a huge factor.

[a_pupil]

that's not jose raymond

[Coach is Back!]

Leg day 10 days out today right after I shot myself up with a bottle Tren A, 1000mg test and 8 halo's but this is the norm so this workout is all drugs (and you'll actually believe this)

[Coach is Back!]

Of the three factors being discussed: Nutrition, training, and hormones; I'm not sure it matters as to what is more important because if even one is neglected then everything falls apart.

Look at, say, an offseason prime Jay Cutler. He claimed to eat 8-10 meals a day to maintain and grow muscle mass. If he dropped to three meals even with the drugs and hard training within six months he'd look like an entirely different person. If maintained the diet, took hormones but stopped training entirely then again it would be a huge difference. Same with training and eating but off hormones entirely.

I do think that if you go off drugs but still keep an intense training routine and follow a good diet that difference, the lost of pro-level physique, wouldn't be as dramatic then if you continued to take drugs and eat well but zero training.

People like to point out how much a bber has shrunk in retirement and use that as proof that it's "all drugs". But don't you think that the fact they are no longer training and eating as much also play a huge factor.

Pellis gets it and to the Jay Cutler point, even at my size I'm still eating 7 meals and if I miss one I'll drop a couple of pounds at this point NO MATTER WHAT I OR ANYONE ELSE TAKES.