Author Topic: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?  (Read 15128 times)

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2019, 09:09:39 PM »

I find that most fans of HIT eventually get down to working out twice a week with something like 6 exercises for one work set. They come to realize that's all they can do if they are pushing every set to absolute failure. Is this working out in an optimal way though?  If you want I can cite the study but one university back in the day wanted to see how many calories were used in a typical 12 machine Nautilus work out to failure. They found they averaged 174 calories. Doing that twice a week doesn't sound like exercising to me. Now imagine the guys that preach 4 to 6 exercises twice a week because they train so (intensely)? They must severely diet because they are not getting into condition from exercise. I don't want to get into the HIT vs volume debate but I will leave it at this. If intensity was the magic bullet we would all warm up and aim for a one rep max for every exercise because that would be the most intensity anyone could do.  One thing is factual. Arthur Jones was an out of shape shrimp who weighted under 150lbs most of his life. Those few pictures of him at a claimed 200 plus are not impressive. Another point is how strong can anyone get? If you started with 20lbs dumbbells for curls after 30 years of training are you using 100lbs for curls? Of course not. Training for a lack of a better term muscular endurance can take you further in terms of achievement goals.

No, I don't think that training twice a week is optimal if you want to build your body. Remember, at this stage, I am weighing the pros and cons. How much meaningful benefit I would get training more versus time lost from other things I want to do with my life. When I think back to my old training buds from the 1980s nobody, other than me, have kept it up .

I don't know how many calories I burn in my hour to hour and a half workout but I do know this: if I don't gorge myself with calories on a workout day I will lose ten pounds over night versus my usual five pounds (weighing just before going to bed and weighing first thing in the morning). This usually entails consuming a quart of ice cream in addition to whatever it is I'm eating. I choose ice cream because I don't like to stuff myself but ice cream goes down easy. Oh, and it also tastes good. So for example, after training and heading to McDs, I had my double QP with cheese, fries, apple pie and the finished it off with a quart of Dryers Rocky Road ice cream which I picked up at Foodland on my walk to Mcd. And if you even casually follow any of my posts, I am hardly severely dieting having been known to fight to the death defending my QP with cheese from any would be marauder.

On another point, don't conflate an intense rep with an intense set. While it is true that you have reached failure on a one rep max because you cannot complete another rep. But just like I said before, when I reach the point of positive failure that's when I tell myself that now it starts. Now is when you are trying to go beyond your normal functional ability. Trying to do something that you were not able to do before to stimulate an adaptive response. These are the intensity variable. So say your ORM max is 200 lbs and you fail at the 2nd rep attempt. This just means you can't generate 200 lbs of force. But I'm sure you can generate 195 lbs, and with each succeeding rep as the force you are able to generate goes down, intensity goes up. So it is these intensity variables: forced reps, drop sets, pre-exhaust... that increases the intensity and "inroads" into the muscle. Digging deeper into the training muscle getting at fibers normally dormant unless taken to complete exhaustion.

When Author Jones trained he developed quite quickly. Actual HIT training is hard and gets harder when you get older. I think it's a mistake to correlate a person's actual accomplishments in a given endeavor with his ability to coach or knowledge of the game. I don't think Freddie Roach or Cus D'Amato could box themselves out of a wet paper bag or that Ronnie Coleman or Phil Heath would make good trainers.

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #76 on: November 22, 2019, 09:15:58 PM »
Your own profile sounds like a sadistic pervert. Hope this helps.

Ah, you're probably my crowning achievement. No one has been so discredited, so humiliated, so disgraced, so mocked as you. I had to restrain myself, as I always try to do in threads that you invade, on the Frank Zane's thread. It's funny but it's also just so sad and tragic. Just to see someone at your age being a whipping boy. But you bring it on yourself so the onslaught continues.




Vince B

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #77 on: November 22, 2019, 09:45:41 PM »
Ah, you're probably my crowning achievement. No one has been so discredited, so humiliated, so disgraced, so mocked as you. I had to restrain myself, as I always try to do in threads that you invade, on the Frank Zane's thread. It's funny but it's also just so sad and tragic. Just to see someone at your age being a whipping boy. But you bring it on yourself so the onslaught continues.





Keep up the good work.

ponal

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2019, 12:25:13 AM »
Ah, you're probably my crowning achievement. No one has been so discredited, so humiliated, so disgraced, so mocked as you. I had to restrain myself, as I always try to do in threads that you invade, on the Frank Zane's thread. It's funny but it's also just so sad and tragic. Just to see someone at your age being a whipping boy. But you bring it on yourself so the onslaught continues.




We all know what you are. Any grown man who writes what you did is a sick fuck. You should be very quite.

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2019, 01:45:11 AM »
We all know what you are. Any grown man who writes what you did is a sick fuck. You should be very quite.

You sound quite tormented.

Sorry, I can't help bullying you around and watching you melt.


pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #80 on: November 23, 2019, 01:46:50 AM »
Keep up the good work.

You make it so easy.


ponal

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2019, 02:08:22 AM »
You sound quite tormented.

Sorry, I can't help bullying you around and watching you melt.


And you are a sick twisted nearly 60 year old trying to act cool on an internet forum. You exposed yourself as a sick pervert. Nothing will change that. You wrote it all on an open Internet Forum. What a dumb ass you are. 🤣

French

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2019, 02:15:43 AM »
One of the best low volume advocate. One of the few who did HIT. Classic line, mass and no injuries.
$

IroNat

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #83 on: November 23, 2019, 05:55:51 AM »


 It all depends on how you define strength and how it is measured. If the test of leg strength was a full squat then those who squatted did better than those using machines. The transfer from machines to free weights wasn't that high. If you were really strong on the Nautilus Duo Squat machine it didn't mean you would be equally as strong in the full squat.


Very true, Vince.

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #84 on: November 23, 2019, 11:46:00 AM »
Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?

those who train low volume and are super intense... are they more likely to use and abuse stimulates which creates mental instability?


in order do a MONSTER set.... i feel stims help out more with this style of training then high volume "pump the muscle"

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #85 on: November 23, 2019, 12:48:50 PM »
Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?

those who train low volume and are super intense... are they more likely to use and abuse stimulates which creates mental instability?


in order do a MONSTER set.... i feel stims help out more with this style of training then high volume "pump the muscle"
I think the mental instability shows in their choice to work harder for the same results.  It's like someone choosing to work 80 hours a week to make the same amount of money they would make working 40.

joswift

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #86 on: November 23, 2019, 12:52:32 PM »
I think the mental instability shows in their choice to work harder for the same results.  It's like someone choosing to work 80 hours a week to make the same amount of money they would make working 40.

what if their job was sailing around the Caribbean on a fishing boat?

If you enjoy what you are doing then you will likely spend more time doing it regardless of the financial reward.

Same with training, some go to the gym because they like training, they dont really care about results

Im the opposite, I hate training, I go because I get results, if I could look good without going to the gym I would never go.

IroNat

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2019, 01:00:38 PM »
Low volume training doesn't just mean HIT.

Powerlifters use low volume much of the time.

Most of the time they are using less than max weights and the intensity is purposely low to moderate.


Humble Narcissist

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2019, 01:08:12 PM »
what if their job was sailing around the Caribbean on a fishing boat?

If you enjoy what you are doing then you will likely spend more time doing it regardless of the financial reward.

Same with training, some go to the gym because they like training, they dont really care about results

Im the opposite, I hate training, I go because I get results, if I could look good without going to the gym I would never go.
Training every set to failure is nothing like floating in a boat in the Caribbean.  The fact that almost every bodybuilder who trained that way went insane, got seriously injured, quit training altogether or switched back to volume proves my point.

oldtimer1

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2019, 01:11:33 PM »
No, I don't think that training twice a week is optimal if you want to build your body. Remember, at this stage, I am weighing the pros and cons. How much meaningful benefit I would get training more versus time lost from other things I want to do with my life. When I think back to my old training buds from the 1980s nobody, other than me, have kept it up .

I don't know how many calories I burn in my hour to hour and a half workout but I do know this: if I don't gorge myself with calories on a workout day I will lose ten pounds over night versus my usual five pounds (weighing just before going to bed and weighing first thing in the morning). This usually entails consuming a quart of ice cream in addition to whatever it is I'm eating. I choose ice cream because I don't like to stuff myself but ice cream goes down easy. Oh, and it also tastes good. So for example, after training and heading to McDs, I had my double QP with cheese, fries, apple pie and the finished it off with a quart of Dryers Rocky Road ice cream which I picked up at Foodland on my walk to Mcd. And if you even casually follow any of my posts, I am hardly severely dieting having been known to fight to the death defending my QP with cheese from any would be marauder.

On another point, don't conflate an intense rep with an intense set. While it is true that you have reached failure on a one rep max because you cannot complete another rep. But just like I said before, when I reach the point of positive failure that's when I tell myself that now it starts. Now is when you are trying to go beyond your normal functional ability. Trying to do something that you were not able to do before to stimulate an adaptive response. These are the intensity variable. So say your ORM max is 200 lbs and you fail at the 2nd rep attempt. This just means you can't generate 200 lbs of force. But I'm sure you can generate 195 lbs, and with each succeeding rep as the force you are able to generate goes down, intensity goes up. So it is these intensity variables: forced reps, drop sets, pre-exhaust... that increases the intensity and "inroads" into the muscle. Digging deeper into the training muscle getting at fibers normally dormant unless taken to complete exhaustion.

When Author Jones trained he developed quite quickly. Actual HIT training is hard and gets harder when you get older. I think it's a mistake to correlate a person's actual accomplishments in a given endeavor with his ability to coach or knowledge of the game. I don't think Freddie Roach or Cus D'Amato could box themselves out of a wet paper bag or that Ronnie Coleman or Phil Heath would make good trainers.

You missed the point by a mile my friend with Freddie Roach who was a competitive boxer. One last point is Roach is a very ill man suffering from Parkinson. If every coach had to demonstrate their current abilities we wouldn't have any coaches. Muscle fibers do not fire at 90% or 70%. They only fire at 100% Did you exhaust all fibers doing one set of 12 reps to failure?  What happens if you cut the weight after failure and got another 12 reps?  True at some point intensity is important but it's not the final answer. Like Jeff Everson said, "Until pigs fly you don't have to be a scientist to be a bodybuilder."  There have been guys that trained with the most "science" behind them and those that just winged it. Both schools have been successful and both schools have seen failures.

oldtimer1

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #90 on: November 23, 2019, 01:13:31 PM »
One of the best low volume advocate. One of the few who did HIT. Classic line, mass and no injuries.

He often wrote of his approach. It's one warm up set then three sets per exercise and typically three exercises per body part. Some followers of the HIT religion would say that's not low volume. I say it's low volume though.

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #91 on: November 23, 2019, 03:46:00 PM »
And you are a sick twisted nearly 60 year old trying to act cool on an internet forum. You exposed yourself as a sick pervert. Nothing will change that. You wrote it all on an open Internet Forum. What a dumb ass you are. 🤣


pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2019, 03:48:08 PM »
I think the mental instability shows in their choice to work harder for the same results.  It's like someone choosing to work 80 hours a week to make the same amount of money they would make working 40.

That was my reasoning. Working out far less, two days a week, instead of the daily grind I see everybody else doing for zero results.

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2019, 04:03:11 PM »
One of the best 3 day a week and low volume training routines is the alternating A/B routine. That was popular way back. Mon: A-upper body, Wednesday: B-lower body Friday: A, the next Monday: B etc  You can go pretty heavy each workout.

Kinda fun doing things that way because you alternate hitting a muscle group twice one week, once the next. Keeps you recovered and fresh. The body of course doesn't run on 7 day clocks but the world seems to. So this is a good fit.

I currently just do twice a week whole body but change up exercises each workout (like flat bench Monday/incline Thursday, etc). This keeps it always interesting and I never get bored or overly fatigued lifting.


pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2019, 04:03:53 PM »
what if their job was sailing around the Caribbean on a fishing boat?

If you enjoy what you are doing then you will likely spend more time doing it regardless of the financial reward.

Same with training, some go to the gym because they like training, they dont really care about results

Im the opposite, I hate training, I go because I get results, if I could look good without going to the gym I would never go.

So right on. I say the same thing all the time. Most people go to the gym, especially retired people, because it is somewhere to go and interact with people. They just go through the motions not really caring about results but having that satisfaction of thinking they are exercising. It's more of a social thing. There's this one guy that just lies on the worthless situp crunch bench rocking some crunches and starting up conversations with anybody within earshot. It's the only "exercise he does while cocking his head so he can also watch TV. I don't have a problem with that and there are far worse things you can do with your free time. At least they are doing something. My only problem with them is that they hog the equipment. They just sit there forever and don't like to yield when someone else is there to actually work out.

Seeing that I follow a schedule and keep a record notebook, a guy was telling me that he uses the "instinctive principle" to guide his training. "No plan, just go by what my body tells me, what it feels like I should do: Chest or legs or back... whether to go hard or easy or go at all." He says I have to trust my feelings more. Listen to what my body is trying to tell me. I just laughed and said that if I listened to what my body wants to do, to be guided by my feelings, I would never step into a gym. I'd be on the couch right now pounding a gallon of Cookies and Cream ice cream smothered with hot fudge watching The Simpson's reruns.

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2019, 04:15:11 PM »
You missed the point by a mile my friend with Freddie Roach who was a competitive boxer. One last point is Roach is a very ill man suffering from Parkinson. If every coach had to demonstrate their current abilities we wouldn't have any coaches. Muscle fibers do not fire at 90% or 70%. They only fire at 100% Did you exhaust all fibers doing one set of 12 reps to failure?  What happens if you cut the weight after failure and got another 12 reps?  True at some point intensity is important but it's not the final answer. Like Jeff Everson said, "Until pigs fly you don't have to be a scientist to be a bodybuilder."  There have been guys that trained with the most "science" behind them and those that just winged it. Both schools have been successful and both schools have seen failures.

I brought up the example of Roach and D-Amato because of your criticism of Jones' physique. When he did train he did put on some legit muscle in a short time. So my point was that just because he wasn't a bbing champion, as D-Amato or Roach weren't champion boxers, does not take away their knowledge. Hell, I doubt doctors are any more healthier than that normal population but their knowledge of health is much greater.

No, you have not exhausted every single fiber at 12 reps to failure but you will exhaust more fibers than doing ORM even though that one rep is 100% intensity. That's where the intensity variable come in.

And of course, intensity is not the be all end all. Your ORM is a perfect example. But neither is volume. There is a point of diminishing returns. Most do volume, but my experience with going to the gyms for decades most don't look like they every lifted a day in their lives. Yes, you have the obvious steroid freaks but just normal guys that train every day after work, it seems like such a waste.

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #96 on: November 23, 2019, 04:18:17 PM »
One of the best 3 day a week and low volume training routines is the alternating A/B routine. That was popular way back. Mon: A-upper body, Wednesday: B-lower body Friday: A, the next Monday: B etc  You can go pretty heavy each workout.

Kinda fun doing things that way because you alternate hitting a muscle group twice one week, once the next. Keeps you recovered and fresh. The body of course doesn't run on 7 day clocks but the world seems to. So this is a good fit.

I currently just do twice a week whole body but change up exercises each workout (like flat bench Monday/incline Thursday, etc). This keeps it always interesting and I never get bored or overly fatigued lifting.



Yes, I did the same thing on a 3x/wk program and felt that was the best. But I just would rather do other things than go to the gym so I cut it back to two days/wk.

Vince B

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #97 on: November 23, 2019, 06:22:18 PM »
Have you tried additional volume?
I was never a good responder no matter what protocol I used. ..........I wasn't going to looked jacked no matter what I did so why bother?




Not true. You managed to put size on your calves. Should work other muscles. Try training only arms for a month.

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #98 on: November 23, 2019, 07:04:01 PM »
Perhaps mentally unstable people like the masochism of low volume training. As we can see, the ones throughout the years doing low volume tend to unduly bitch and moan with TL-DR posts. Danta has started in again on IG, there was Trevor Smith, Mike Mentzer, Arthur Jones, and now that guy Paul CArter is ranting and raving. A common theme amongst them is a grievance against other gymgoers at large and sanctimonious attitude. Just real jerk-type people (Danta seems nice though delusional).

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #99 on: November 23, 2019, 07:55:52 PM »
Perhaps mentally unstable people like the masochism of low volume training. As we can see, the ones throughout the years doing low volume tend to unduly bitch and moan with TL-DR posts. Danta has started in again on IG, there was Trevor Smith, Mike Mentzer, Arthur Jones, and now that guy Paul CArter is ranting and raving. A common theme amongst them is a grievance against other gymgoers at large and sanctimonious attitude. Just real jerk-type people (Danta seems nice though delusional).

It is clear to me that science has neglected or avoided doing research on very large muscles. I believe Arthur Jones was mistaken about intensity. It is a factor in hypertrophy but not a sufficient one. There are thresholds re intensity that are sufficient to make gains. Arthur was also mistaken about how muscles contract. The sliding filament theory is more accurate than box cars on a track.

The missing factor in hypertrophy is volume. If we reduce the factors to the minimum we find that one must stimulate a muscle with a certain amount of mechanical tension for a certain amount of time. In practice this is best achieved, and safely, by doing many, many sets with a significant resistance. Large muscles are capable of repetitive efforts of medium reps with significant resistance. That is what we find in practice if we look at how the pros train. You don't have to go to the absolute limit in each set because more sets will get the job done....namely, more mechanical tension of a sufficient amount.