NBA rookie Zion Williamson gained 8 pounds of muscle in a week of working out

[Army of One]

Sure he is.   More deadly than Shaq within 10 feet of the basket. More deadly than Shaq who was a 7'1" 330 pound behemoth with coordination and practically immovable in the paint....Jesus Christ...I've read it all now.

Higher field goal % than rookie Shaq, scoring easier and more than rookie Shaq, younger than rookie Shaq and has more moves down low than rookie Shaq.....softer touch than rookie Shaq around the rim...better free throw shooter than rookie Shaq so teams more confused about what to do with him down low...jumps higher than rookie Shaq...has the greatest 2nd jump of all time..

[WoogsRaven]

Higher field goal % than rookie Shaq, scoring easier and more than rookie Shaq, younger than rookie Shaq and has more moves down low than rookie Shaq.....softer touch than rookie Shaq around the rim...better free throw shooter than rookie Shaq so teams more confused about what to do with him down low...jumps higher than rookie Shaq...has the greatest 2nd jump of all time..

What a stupid fucking argument with these pointless stats you're throwing out. His rookie season isn't even completed yet, you donkey...and you're comparing him to a top 5 all time hall of fame center...

He isn't driving to the basket against players like Shaq. It's stupid to even compare the two. They play two entirely different positions. Shaq was 6 inched TALLER than Zion. Zion would have his ass handed handed to him more often than not driving to the hole against a prime Shaq. Give me a break, dude.

2nd greatest jump of all time?? Who gives a fuck. Here's a name......Harold Miner. Ever heard of him? They called him Baby Jordan, he could jump higher then Michael Jordan. How did his career end up turning out?

[residue]

Higher field goal % than rookie Shaq, scoring easier and more than rookie Shaq, younger than rookie Shaq and has more moves down low than rookie Shaq.....softer touch than rookie Shaq around the rim...better free throw shooter than rookie Shaq so teams more confused about what to do with him down low...jumps higher than rookie Shaq...has the greatest 2nd jump of all time..

in a softer league without any credible big men, the best center is jokic and he's a bit fat softee.

[Army of One]

What a stupid fucking argument with these pointless stats you're throwing out. His rookie season isn't even completed yet, you donkey...and you're comparing him to a top 5 all time hall of fame center...

He isn't driving to the basket against players like Shaq. It's stupid to even compare the two. They play two entirely different positions. Shaq was 6 inched TALLER than Zion. Zion would have his ass handed handed to him more often than not driving to the hole against a prime Shaq. Give me a break, dude.

2nd greatest jump of all time?? Who gives a fuck. Here's a name......Harold Miner. Ever heard of him? They called him Baby Jordan, he could jump higher then Michael Jordan. How did his career end up turning out?

Stats don't lie and Zion is playing centre for large parts of the current games.Thats the beauty of him, he's as quick as a gaurd with the power and strength of a center, while having a vertical higher than any center ever.He isn't driving to the basket against players like Shaq?Are you even watching the games or highlights? Obviously not.Shaq might be 6inches taller than zion, but if Zions average jump is 5-10 inches higher and Zion is stronger too then that freak ability looks to be nullifying any problems with his 6'6 height.Have you ever played basketball?Tons of players can jump out the gym, very few can 2nd jump out the gym.Zion can and if you were actually watching the games you'd know what a weapon it is following his own missed shots or jumping for a 2nd rebound attempt.he is like some freak mixture of Barkley,Shaq,Wade, Rose and Westbrook.

[WoogsRaven]

Stats don't lie and Zion is playing centre for large parts of the current games.Thats the beauty of him, he's as quick as a gaurd with the power and strength of a center, while having a vertical higher than any center ever.He isn't driving to the basket against players like Shaq?Are you even watching the games or highlights? Obviously not.Shaq might be 6inches taller than zion, but if Zions average jump is 5-10 inches higher and Zion is stronger too then that freak ability looks to be nullifying any problems with his 6'6 height.Have you ever played basketball?Tons of players can jump out the gym, very few can 2nd jump out the gym.Zion can and if you were actually watching the games you'd know what a weapon it is following his own missed shots or jumping for a 2nd rebound attempt.he is like some freak mixture of Barkley,Shaq,Wade, Rose and Westbrook.

My head is in my hands and just sighing at reading this horse shit. It's like arguing with a beta millennial who thinks he's training hard at the gym even while repeatedly checking his snapchat likes between sets.

[Dave D]

Stats don't lie and Zion is playing centre for large parts of the current games.Thats the beauty of him, he's as quick as a gaurd with the power and strength of a center, while having a vertical higher than any center ever.He isn't driving to the basket against players like Shaq?Are you even watching the games or highlights? Obviously not.Shaq might be 6inches taller than zion, but if Zions average jump is 5-10 inches higher and Zion is stronger too then that freak ability looks to be nullifying any problems with his 6'6 height.Have you ever played basketball?Tons of players can jump out the gym, very few can 2nd jump out the gym.Zion can and if you were actually watching the games you'd know what a weapon it is following his own missed shots or jumping for a 2nd rebound attempt.he is like some freak mixture of Barkley,Shaq,Wade, Rose and Westbrook.

Bro you’re right stats don’t lie, that said you should be comparing Shaq’s first 10 games to Zions. Also the stats of the centers Zion is playing against versus the stats of the centers Shaq played against. Wasn’t Shaqs first game against the Heat and Rony Siekaly? Shaq faced prime David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, Yao, Zo, etc... how would he do against today’s bigs? It’s safe to say he’s shoot very well in the paint.
 
Zion is a great and exciting player and I realize you get a lot of street cred for being the first to recognize his greatness on a bodybuilding board but you should factor in everything when making comparisons. Rookie Shaq had Nick Anderson as his best teammate, Zion has 25 ppg and all star Brandon Ingram as well as former all star Jarue Holiday.

I hope dude is an all timer, he’s exciting and humble. But his season started 30 games after everyone else, let’s enjoy what he is instead of anointing him before he’s played half a season.

[Army of One]

My head is in my hands and just sighing at reading this horse shit. It's like arguing with a beta millennial who thinks he's training hard at the gym even while repeatedly checking his snapchat likes between sets.

You are welcome to dispute with facts or stats, or some observations you have comparing the 2.I saw Shaq live 6 times in his rookie season, one of the games at courtside.Im very aware of what Shaq could do and very aware of what Zion can do.You realise Dennis Rodman at 6'6 barefoot used to give Shaq fits when he defended him?You realise Barkley at 6'5 barefoot frequently outrebounded Shaq?Zion is a better athlete than both.

[Army of One]

Bro you’re right stats don’t lie, that said you should be comparing Shaq’s first 10 games to Zions. Also the stats of the centers Zion is playing against versus the stats of the centers Shaq played against. Wasn’t Shaqs first game against the Heat and Rony Siekaly? Shaq faced prime David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, Yao, Zo, etc... how would he do against today’s bigs? It’s safe to say he’s shoot very well in the paint.
 
Zion is a great and exciting player and I realize you get a lot of street cred for being the first to recognize his greatness on a bodybuilding board but you should factor in everything when making comparisons. Rookie Shaq had Nick Anderson as his best teammate, Zion has 25 ppg and all star Brandon Ingram as well as former all star Jarue Holiday.

I hope dude is an all timer, he’s exciting and humble. But his season started 30 games after everyone else, let’s enjoy what he is instead of anointing him before he’s played half a season.

Zion was a better high school player than Shaq, a better college player than Shaq, and now his first 10 NBA back off injury games are better than Shaq, all while 2 years younger as a rookie.

Shaq's college stats over 3 years

SUMMARY

Career

G
90

PTS
21.6

TRB
13.5

AST
1.7

FG%
61.0

FG3%
FT%
57.5

eFG%
61.0

Zions 1 year freshman stats

SUMMARY

Career

G
33

PTS
22.6

TRB
8.9

AST
2.1

FG%
68.0

FG3%
33.8

FT%
64.0

eFG%
70.8

[Dave D]

Zion was a better high school player than Shaq, a better college player than Shaq, and now his first 10 NBA back off injury games are better than Shaq, all while 2 years younger as a rookie.

Shaq's college stats over 3 years

SUMMARY

Career

G
90

PTS
21.6

TRB
13.5

AST
1.7

FG%
61.0

FG3%
FT%
57.5

eFG%
61.0

Zions 1 year freshman stats

SUMMARY

Career

G
33

PTS
22.6

TRB
8.9

AST
2.1

FG%
68.0

FG3%
33.8

FT%
64.0

eFG%
70.8

Good point.  Shaq as a freshman and sophomore played with Stanley Roberts for 2 years at LSU.  Who was the dominant senior Zions freshman year?

You know who else had better high school careers than Shaq, Ronnie Fields and Marcus Taylor.

You’re trolling but it’s funny. Well done.

Also eFg% wasn’t a stat that was tracked in the 90’s, just like the 3 point shot wasn’t as valued as it is today. So keep apples with apples.

[Army of One]

Good point.  Shaq as a freshman and sophomore played with Stanley Roberts for 2 years at LSU.  Who was the dominant senior Zions freshman year?

You know who else had better high school careers than Shaq, Ronnie Fields and Marcus Taylor.

You’re trolling but it’s funny. Well done.

Also eFg% wasn’t a stat that was tracked in the 90’s, just like the 3 point shot wasn’t as valued as it is today. So keep apples with apples.

I don't wait for the media or my friends to have a consensus opinion before I adopt it to fit in.I say what I see.Zion at 19 is far better than Shaq was at 19, and slightly better than Shaq was at 21.

[Dave D]

I don't wait for the media or my friends to have a consensus opinion before I adopt it to fit in.I say what I see.Zion at 19 is far better than Shaq was at 19, and slightly better than Shaq was at 21.

Cool.

You have a great perspective and obviously aren’t biased. You’re much smarter than any of your friends, I hope you’re validated in your NBA career as an executive with your keen eye for talent. You’ve recognized the 1st overall pick in an NBA draft as an elite talent.

You’re the modern era Jerry West!

[Army of One]

Cool.

You have a great perspective and obviously aren’t biased. You’re much smarter than any of your friends, I hope you’re validated in your NBA career as an executive with your keen eye for talent. You’ve recognized the 1st overall pick in an NBA draft as an elite talent.

You’re the modern era Jerry West!

You seem to be sitting on the fence, with no real opinion, other than don't be too hasty.Other than saying Shaq had worse teammates at LSU and 1st year orlando I'm not even quite sure what point you are trying to make.Also it's very clear Zion doesn't need plays drafted for him to be effective and when Ingram was out it was even easier for him to score as the focal point.I suspect the worse Zions NBA teammates are the higher his stats would be.

[Dave D]

You seem to be sitting on the fence, with no real opinion, other than don't be too hasty.Other than saying Shaq had worse teammates at LSU and 1st year orlando I'm not even quite sure what point you are trying to make.Also it's very clear Zion doesn't need plays drafted for him to be effective and when Ingram was out it was even easier for him to score as the focal point.I suspect the worse Zions NBA teammates are the higher his stats would be.

Penny Hardaway was a unique talent. He was a 2 time all 1st team NBA point guard 3 years into his career. Early on he was a better Magic, no one says that today.

10 games into his career Zion is going to be better than Shaq. You said he was better than (will be) better than Jordan. Great.

10 games into his career. Now you’re saying 19 year old Zion is better than Shaq at the same age.

That’s fair. Shaq at 19 had ZERO instagram followers. Zion is in the millions.

We are talking about two different eras, but you’re using simple stats to say it’s the same game.

Oh Dwight Howard was a better teen than Shaq as well.

[Army of One]

quote author=Army of One link=topic=660793.msg9350555#msg9350555 date=1581716177]
You seem to be sitting on the fence, with no real opinion, other than don't be too hasty.Other than saying Shaq had worse teammates at LSU and 1st year orlando I'm not even quite sure what point you are trying to make.Also it's very clear Zion doesn't need plays drafted for him to be effective and when Ingram was out it was even easier for him to score as the focal point.I suspect the worse Zions NBA teammates are the higher his stats would be.

Penny Hardaway was a unique talent. He was a 2 time all 1st team NBA point guard 3 years into his career. Early on he was a better Magic, no one says that today.

10 games into his career Zion is going to be better than Shaq. You said he was better than (will be) better than Jordan. Great.

10 games into his career. Now you’re saying 19 year old Zion is better than Shaq at the same age.

That’s fair. Shaq at 19 had ZERO instagram followers. Zion is in the millions.

We are talking about two different eras, but you’re using simple stats to say it’s the same game.

Disagree with you there.Penny was never as good as magic.Better at slashing and finishing at the rim?yes.worse at everything else.I never said he was going to be better than Jordan, I said he has all tools to rival him, and that if Jordan hadn't retired early twice it would've been an insurmountable task.But yes I believe Zion is better than Shaq was up to age 21, and will continue to be the better player, providing his health holds up.People forget that apart from a great 4 years at the Lakers and 1 year at Orlando, he was playoff fodder, I think he was swept 6 times in his first 8 years or so.Largely because all you had to do was hack him so he went to the line in the 4th quarter where he would fold at the line.

[Dave D]

Back on the 22nd against the spurs.Only thing stopping him from being top 10 all time is is health imo.Ive never seen someone so good in so many areas apart from Jordan.

Fair you didnt say he was better than Jordan. You said if he’s healthy he’s top 10, all time, in the nba?

Disagree with you there.Penny was never as good as magic.Better at slashing and finishing at the rim?yes.worse at everything else.I never said he was going to be better than Jordan, I said he has all tools to rival him, and that if Jordan hadn't retired early twice it would've been an insurmountable task.But yes I believe Zion is better than Shaq was up to age 21, and will continue to be the better player, providing his health holds up.People forget that apart from a great 4 years at the Lakers and 1 year at Orlando, he was playoff fodder, I think he was swept 6 times in his first 8 years or so.Largely because all you had to do was hack him so he went to the line in the 4th quarter where he would fold at the line.

Wait are talking about playoffs now? Zion has zero playoff games on his resume so what stats are you using now?

Collect your thoughts.

In the mid 90s many said Penny was the NEXT Magic. A 6 ‘7”point guard with athleticism and a jump shot. Magic had zero jump shot and wasn’t the athlete penny was. Magic was the superior player.

You want to say Zion is a top 10 player all time IF he’s healthy. Fine. Stay healthy.

Ja Murant may be the best point guard of all time if keeps improving and stays healthy. You heard it here first.

Brandon Roy, Grant Hill, Penny, Ralph Sampson.. how great would they have been.

Health is a key trait of greatness.

[Army of One]

Fair you didnt say he was better than Jordan. You said if he’s healthy he’s top 10, all time, in the nba?



Wait are talking about playoffs now? Zion has zero playoff games on his resume so what stats are you using now?

Collect your thoughts.

In the mid 90s many said Penny was the NEXT Magic. A 6 ‘7”point guard with athleticism and a jump shot. Magic had zero jump shot and wasn’t the athlete penny was. Magic was the superior player.

You want to say Zion is a top 10 player all time IF he’s healthy. Fine. Stay healthy.

Ja Murant may be the best point guard of all time if keeps improving and stays healthy. You heard it here first.

Brandon Roy, Grant Hill, Penny, Ralph Sampson.. how great would they have been.

Health is a key trait of greatness.

Playoffs were just a reflection of his weaknesses, which he had from day 1 in the NBA.Was why I mentioned it.Magics shot was fine, he shot a set shot like many modern players do, you couldnt leave him open.roy would be lucky if top 50.penny and hill, fringe top 20-30 if stayed healthy.Sampson yes, could have been top 10 for sure.

[Dave D]

Disagree with you there.Penny was never as good as magic.Better at slashing and finishing at the rim?yes.worse at everything else.I never said he was going to be better than Jordan, I said he has all tools to rival him, and that if Jordan hadn't retired early twice it would've been an insurmountable task.But yes I believe Zion is better than Shaq was up to age 21, and will continue to be the better player, providing his health holds up.People forget that apart from a great 4 years at the Lakers and 1 year at Orlando, he was playoff fodder, I think he was swept 6 times in his first 8 years or so.Largely because all you had to do was hack him so he went to the line in the 4th quarter where he would fold at the line.

Also I’m not sure if you follow sports but you should know EVERYONE is considered a loser and a failure in the clutch until the win the championship. Jordan, P. Manning, J Elway, Arod, etc... Shaq in the playoffs was loser until he won. Maybe if Nick Anderson hit free throws the narrative is different. But Shaqs team couldn’t win.

Shaq could never shoot free throws but once he won a title he became a champion and it didn’t matter anymore.

[Army of One]

Also I’m not sure if you follow sports but you should know EVERYONE is considered a loser and a failure in the clutch until the win the championship. Jordan, P. Manning, J Elway, Arod, etc... Shaq in the playoffs was loser until he won. Maybe if Nick Anderson hit free throws the narrative is different. But Shaqs team couldn’t win.

Shaq could never shoot free throws but once he won a title he became a champion and it didn’t matter anymore.

No player should be getting swept with Kobe,nick van excel, Eddie jones,Robert horry and Rick fox as teammtes.Especially not 98 Shaq.

[Dave D]

Playoffs were just a reflection of his weaknesses, which he had from day 1 in the NBA.Was why I mentioned it.Magics shot was fine, he shot a set shot like many modern players do, you couldnt leave him open.roy would be lucky if top 50.penny and hill, fringe top 20-30 if stayed healthy.Sampson yes, could have been top 10 for sure.

Lol you win. Magic had a good shot? Was he a great defender as well? Lol

No player should be getting swept with Kobe,nick van excel, Eddie jones,Robert horry and Rick fox as teammtes.Especially not 98 Shaq.

Good point 98 Kobe was at the peak of his powers and Nick the quick and Eddie Jones ended being Hall of Fame players. Del Harris was a great coach.  Shaq lost to bums in Utah. Karl Malone, John Stockton lost one the next round right?

Troll on expert

[Army of One]

Lol you win. Magic had a good shot? Was he a great defender as well? Lol

Good point 98 Kobe was at the peak of his powers and Nick the quick and Eddie Jones ended being Hall of Fame players. Del Harris was a great coach.  Shaq lost to bums in Utah. Karl Malone, John Stockton lost one the next round right?

Troll on expert

Try actually watching the games.Magic was a 90% plus foul shooter twice in his career, as every shooter knows, the foul line doesn't lie and translates to every other area of the floor on set shots.He also was 52% from the field for his career, that's even higher than Jordan.How are you going to tell me he couldn't shoot?and nobody on the planet thought at the time, or thinks now that that Lakers team was not stacked with talent.

[Dave D]

Try actually watching the games.Magic was a 90% plus foul shooter twice in career, as every shooter knows, the foul line doesn't lie and translates to every other area of the floor on set shots.He also was 52% from the field for his career, that's even higher than Jordan.How are you going to tell me he couldn't shoot?and nobody on the planet thought at the time, or thinks now that that Lakers team was not stacked with talent.

Yes I can tell you’ve watched a lot of games. You have a very keen eye for what’s happening on the court based on your statistics references. Don’t forget Johnson retired early. Jordan played longer and came back in his late 30’s early 40’s and those years affected his stats because he wasn’t the same player.

I like what you’re doing.

Trae Young > Stephen Curry.

Frank Gore 3rd best running back off all time, Philip Rivers > Dan Marino

STATS they don’t lie

[Army of One]

Yes I can tell you’ve watched a lot of games. You have a very keen eye for what’s happening on the court based on your statistics references. Don’t forget Johnson retired early. Jordan played longer and came back in his late 30’s early 40’s and those years affected his stats because he wasn’t the same player.

I like what you’re doing.

Trae Young > Stephen Curry.

Frank Gore 3rd best running back off all time, Philip Rivers > Dan Marino

STATS they don’t lie

You just keep spewing nonsense.The fact you think a guard who shoots 90% from the foul line and over 50% from the field "can't shoot" just confirms you have no idea what you are talking about and have never played a serious organised game of basketball in your life, nor watched much NBA apart from sports center highlights.

[Dave D]

You just keep spewing nonsense.The fact you think a guard who shoots 90% from the foul line and over 50% from the field "can't shoot" just confirms you have no idea what you are talking about and have never played a serious organised game of basketball in your life, nor watched much NBA apart from sports center highlights.

Agreed. Magic shot 85% from the line for his career though. He did make 90% twice though. So I’m not sure how you’re using the stats unless you’re picking the ones you like such as career fg% and career high ft%.

And the NBA spells the position C E N T E R , which I’m sure you know.

[Army of One]

Agreed. Magic shot 85% from the line for his career though. He did make 90% twice though. So I’m not sure how you’re using the stats unless you’re picking the ones you like such as career fg% and career high ft%.

And the NBA spells the position C E N T E R , which I’m sure you know.

I'm from the UK and it's centre there, I mix them up when talking football (soccer)and NBA.Magic came in the league an average to good shooter, and by the mid 80s he was an elite shooter, you couldn't leave him open.The other bs that everyone says is Jordan wasn't a great jump shooter until 90-91, which is also bullshit, he was a great jump shooter from day 1 NBA, he just posted up and fadeawayed more from around 89 onwards.Also people say Bird was slow, which is nonsense he wasn't fast end to end but he was extremely quick in his movements.Apart from not being able to jump high he was a great athlete.So many players get undeserved labels and it gets repeated enough where it's believed.

[Army of One]

List of rookies to average at least 20ppg and 60 TS%:
Adrian Dantley (1977): 20 ppg and 60 TS%
Bill Cartwright (1980): 21 ppg and 60 TS%
Zion Williamson: 22 ppg and 61 TS%

Top 2 rookies all time for points per 36 (20 ppg qualification):
1. Zion: 29.3 points per 36 (61 TS%)
2. Wilt: 29.2 points per 36 (49 TS%)

Zion's last 4 games:
29 ppg on 63 TS% in just 30 minutes per game. Zion in the last 4 games is essentially scoring 1 point per minute on 60+ TS%

of the 34 players averaging at least 20 PPG, Zion currently leads the NBA in FG%. The last player to have a better FG% while scoring 20 PPG was Dwight Howard in 2011

Been better that anyone else he has shared a floor with so far not named Giannis,including Dame, CP3, Harden, Westbrook, Tatum, and Jokic.

ppg as rookies

PPG:
1. Zion (22.
2. Luka (21.2)
3. Melo (21)
4. LeBron (20.9)
5. KD (20.3)

Points per 36:
1. Zion (29.3)
2. Luka (23.7)
3. Kyrie (21.
4. KD (21.1)
5. Melo (20.7)

eFG%:
1. Zion (59.9%)
2. Kyrie (51.7%)
3. Luka (49.7%)
4. Marbury (46.6%)
5. Wiggins (45.4%)

TS%:
1. Zion (61%)
2. Kyrie (56%)
3. Luka (54%)
4. KD (52%)
5. Marbury (52%)

Zion is currently generating about twice as many shots at the rim per 100 possessions as Shaq was in 2001