Johnnie O Jackson - How Branch Warren Trained Me Out of Retirement

[rocket]

Louie Simmons and all of his lifters are always bragging about all of the surgeries they've had in their lifting careers.

That isn't severely messed up.  Those people continue to lift and prosper.   Many sports people have injuries.  I want examples that give credence to the recent trend of assuming the worst for heavy lifters, since the patron saint Ronnie emerged, to lead this movement.

Every time I ask for decent examples, I kill the thread and I know why.  Because it's a bullshit idea.

Not to say you *can't* destroy yourself from heavy lifting - it's just not common.

[hipolito mejia]

I saw some of his recent vids, he doesn’t even look close to being ready for the arnold

I guess we’ll see

Another Levrone like comeback   Can’t be as embarrassing. 

[Humble Narcissist]

That isn't severely messed up.  Those people continue to lift and prosper.   Many sports people have injuries.  I want examples that give credence to the recent trend of assuming the worst for heavy lifters, since the patron saint Ronnie emerged, to lead this movement.

Every time I ask for decent examples, I kill the thread and I know why.  Because it's a bullshit idea.

Not to say you *can't* destroy yourself from heavy lifting - it's just not common.

Most athletes who play dangerous sports get paid big money to do so.  A person can lift super heavy weights but why except for ego gratification?  A person can lift half as hard and heavy and look the same with no injuries.

[ziballz]

I dunno why anyone "retires" anymore they all keep coming back...

retirement = "off cycle" 

[rocket]

Most athletes who play dangerous sports get paid big money to do so.  A person can lift super heavy weights but why except for ego gratification?  A person can lift half as hard and heavy and look the same with no injuries.

If you cannot comprehend why someone pushes their limits, if it isn't for ego or money, I probably can't help you.   Best I can say is, what about exploration?  What about treading new ground?  Does that have to be ego related?  This whole existence thing we have going here is a trip, a temporary moment in time where we experience some stuff and then stage left.  What about when you just do something because "what would it be like to do that?". Does a child bang on shit because of their ego?  No, they are exploring their bodies and touching the world around them.  Does everything have to be about receiving a payment on top of the the experience itself?

[Humble Narcissist]

If you cannot comprehend why someone pushes their limits, if it isn't for ego or money, I probably can't help you.   Best I can say is, what about exploration?  What about treading new ground?  Does that have to be ego related?  This whole existence thing we have going here is a trip, a temporary moment in time where we experience some stuff and then stage left.  What about when you just do something because "what would it be like to do that?". Does a child bang on shit because of their ego?  No, they are exploring their bodies and touching the world around them.  Does everything have to be about receiving a payment on top of the the experience itself?

Yes, it is totally ego related.  People can push their limits as much as they choose, I don't give a shit.  When I was young I trained "hardcore" and "killed it" in the gym and looking back with the wisdom of age and experience realize how stupid it was.  I could have gotten the same or better results with half the effort like I do now.  The fact that these retards continue destroying their bodies (like Ronnie Coleman) and can't even see it is amusing if not sad.

[Bevo]

If you cannot comprehend why someone pushes their limits, if it isn't for ego or money, I probably can't help you.   Best I can say is, what about exploration?  What about treading new ground?  Does that have to be ego related?  This whole existence thing we have going here is a trip, a temporary moment in time where we experience some stuff and then stage left.  What about when you just do something because "what would it be like to do that?". Does a child bang on shit because of their ego?  No, they are exploring their bodies and touching the world around them.  Does everything have to be about receiving a payment on top of the the experience itself?

Why? If you can get the same outcome like Phil, Kai, Dexter, Priest, Ray, Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, etc...

Some of those guys lifted very “heavy” but all of them, their forms were not like these two numb nuts branch and johnnie in fact, no one has form as bad as them, it’s all ego, plain and simple

Ronnies form is worse than all the bbers I mentioned but not on the level of branch and johnnie, but it was still bad, and he kept going at it with a injured back that never fully healed. This was in the mid 90’s. The thing about Ronnie was, bad form, extreme heavy lifting with a injured back did him in. He kept going when injuries were prevalent and never stopped

[Bevo]

With guys like Branch it’s not the “heavy” part as much as the shit “form”.

This

Ronnies form was absurd too a long with injuries that he neglected and kept going

[MCWAY]

Another Levrone like comeback   Can’t be as embarrassing. 

Levrone took off nearly 15 years. Jackson has only been gone for 2 years (and still dabbled in powerlifting, during his bodybuilding hiatus).

[Taffin]

Levrone took off nearly 15 years. Jackson has only been gone for 2 years (and still dabbled in powerlifting, during his bodybuilding hiatus).

Imagine that first cycle after so long, with Pro level muscle memory...    sheesh I bet he blew up fast... 


#thread_idea

[MCWAY]

Imagine that first cycle after so long, with Pro level muscle memory...    sheesh I bet he blew up fast... 


#thread_idea

Not really. It took him a while to get most of his size back and that was mostly in his upper body. His legs didn't quite return to form (despite his videos of heavy squatting).

[Methyl m1ke]

I say this a bit and I'll say it again.

Name another guy other than Ronnie Coleman who is severely messed up from lifting heavy.

Afterwards, we'll name all the powerlifters who aren't in surgery every 3 months.

This idea that lifting heavy destroys your body is massively exaggerated. 

Ronnie slipped a disk in his back in 96 and the injury over time did him in. Look at his back, really look at it, from 97 or so on and you can see the imbalance was evident way back then. Over time it got worse and worse

[Van_Bilderass]

Strict form isn't necessarily safer if you think about it, but it depends on what exercise we are talking about and how you cheat of course. And the load. If you look at Branch or Johnnie they are removing the end ranges in which the tendons are in stretched positions (perhaps bigger chance of a tear) and where you are mechanically weaker. My criticism would be more along the lines of them perhaps losing out on a lot of growth stimulus, but it's hard to know if they would have been any better bodybuilders with better form. This proves that you don't absolutely need to do full range movements to grow.

Dorian's form was pretty much text book and the cadence wasn't ballistic, but he still suffered a lot of tears. At some point the load simply exceeds what the weakest link can tolerate.

[MCWAY]

This

Ronnies form was absurd too a long with injuries that he neglected and kept going

Ronnie's form was good on most of his exercises. Look at his front squats. I've NEVER seen anyone do those with near-letter-perfect form with THAT MUCH WEIGHT (585 lb) and multiple reps (10-12).

And his dumbbell bench presses were awesome, too. He handled 200-lb dumbbells the way most guys handle 70s or 80s.

If his form was "sloppy", it was usually on pulling exercises like barbell and T-bar rows.

[MCWAY]

Yes, it is totally ego related.  People can push their limits as much as they choose, I don't give a shit.  When I was young I trained "hardcore" and "killed it" in the gym and looking back with the wisdom of age and experience realize how stupid it was.  I could have gotten the same or better results with half the effort like I do now.  The fact that these retards continue destroying their bodies (like Ronnie Coleman) and can't even see it is amusing if not sad.

When it comest to ego, I say this: You shouldn't overfeed it; but you shouldn't starve it, either.

Certain exercises I don't do anymore, that I used to perform 20-25 years ago. Others I do sparingly, with much less weight after exhausting the muscles with other exercises. I rarely do flat benches over 225, because I've pounded my chest with other exercises like inclines and dips.  Plus, if you do flats, Leroy-Colbert/Serge-Nubret style (with your hands as wide as possible, you don't need a ton of weight to hit the chest.

[rocket]

Why? If you can get the same outcome like Phil, Kai, Dexter, Priest, Ray, Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, etc...

Some of those guys lifted very “heavy” but all of them, their forms were not like these two numb nuts branch and johnnie in fact, no one has form as bad as them, it’s all ego, plain and simple

Ronnies form is worse than all the bbers I mentioned but not on the level of branch and johnnie, but it was still bad, and he kept going at it with a injured back that never fully healed. This was in the mid 90’s. The thing about Ronnie was, bad form, extreme heavy lifting with a injured back did him in. He kept going when injuries were prevalent and never stopped

I'm certainly not advocating lifting beyond your means and into injury.  But I am saying that lifting heavy weight isn't all about ego.  For one thing, for bench, it's more effective for me.  It is absolutely better for me to just go to absolute limit on dbs and press the heaviest one I can find for a single, rather than do say 80% for more reps - that absolutely does not work for me.  I will spin my wheels for eternity with that (and in fact, I've recently been doing someone else's protocol and have been spinning my wheels for quite some time).  Fast forward to more recently where I have gone back to what I know works for me and the change is immediate.   Can't tell you why, doesn't work for all body parts - but for bench, the heavier, the better.  

It's also utter fucking horseshit to make blanket statements about working out with reduced intensity or weight works just as good (for a natural, I don't know the gear world).  That's like me saying to everybody to go do what I've experimentally verified to be true for my body with bench.   That would also be tripe.  Many people would just get injured or not respond to it.  

[Jayel]

Johnnie’s form is worse than Branch’s, which is saying something. How the fuck can these guys even walk?

[pellius]

If you cannot comprehend why someone pushes their limits, if it isn't for ego or money, I probably can't help you.   Best I can say is, what about exploration?  What about treading new ground?  Does that have to be ego related?  This whole existence thing we have going here is a trip, a temporary moment in time where we experience some stuff and then stage left.  What about when you just do something because "what would it be like to do that?". Does a child bang on shit because of their ego?  No, they are exploring their bodies and touching the world around them.  Does everything have to be about receiving a payment on top of the the experience itself?

Exactly! People just think money and ego. They never think that maybe a person just wants to accomplish something in life: to challenge themselves, to take themselves beyond limits that they didn't think was possible. To live!

[Humble Narcissist]

Exactly! People just think money and ego. They never think that maybe a person just wants to accomplish something in life: to challenge themselves, to take themselves beyond limits that they didn't think was possible. To live!

You can accomplish all kinds of things without destroying your joints.  Ronnie Coleman has the body of a 90 year old man whereas Vince Taylor is healthy and looks as good as he did 30 years ago.

[pellius]

You can accomplish all kinds of things without destroying your joints.  Ronnie Coleman has the body of a 90 year old man whereas Vince Taylor is healthy and looks as good as he did 30 years ago.

I wasn't making an argument for Ronnie, just the idea that people are only motivated by money and ego. Some people are just born with a zest for achievement. To see for themselves what they are capable of.

[MCWAY]

You can accomplish all kinds of things without destroying your joints.  Ronnie Coleman has the body of a 90 year old man whereas Vince Taylor is healthy and looks as good as he did 30 years ago.

I think Ronnie was more of a guy who had nagging injuries, never took the time to let them heal properly, and it finally caught up with him.

Again, his form on his presses and squats looked fine (but with that much weight and his injuries, it wasn't a good deal). It's his rows that looked not-so-letter perfect to me.

[joswift]

I think Ronnie was more of a guy who had nagging injuries, never took the time to let them heal properly, and it finally caught up with him.

Again, his form on his presses and squats looked fine (but with that much weight and his injuries, it wasn't a good deal). It's his rows that looked not-so-letter perfect to me.

I have a feeling he worked through everything with opioids, doing far more damage than he realised, pain is the bodies warning system, get rid of that and you have what we see now hobbling around..

[MCWAY]

I have a feeling he worked through everything with opioids, doing far more damage than he realised, pain is the bodies warning system, get rid of that and you have what we see now hobbling around..

That's possible. But, most people who use opioids like that have issues that show up rather soon afterwards. I haven't seen that with Mr. Coleman.

He's just super strong. Most IFBB pros don't back squat with the weight he uses for front squats.

[joswift]

That's possible. But, most people who use opioids like that have issues that show up rather soon afterwards. I haven't seen that with Mr. Coleman.

He's just super strong. Most IFBB pros don't back squat with the weight he uses for front squats.

He was super strong

[Bevo]

Exactly! People just think money and ego. They never think that maybe a person just wants to accomplish something in life: to challenge themselves, to take themselves beyond limits that they didn't think was possible. To live!

So, lifting like these two clowns is challenging themselves? To live?