Author Topic: Would you DIE for your Religion?  (Read 36712 times)

snatch_clean

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2006, 12:38:24 PM »
I will not deny that man's history is stained with the attrocities committed in the name of God and religion. More proof of the lengths man will go to twist mankind's faith in God in order to further their own evil agenda. Johnny was just writing in another thread about Adolph Hitler's beliefs in God and how (in his mind) it justified his hatred of the Jews.

You need to re-read Johnny's question again. It was if we KNEW (without a doubt) that it was God would we still do as he commanded.

So I ask you and Johnny, if you were to meet God and he proved to you beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was indeed the one true almighty creator would you obey his commands?





Since we are playing what-ifs. If he existed and proved in a manner that is indisputable and then ordered me to murder my kids I would tell him that he can do it himself. My escape route would be that I am a mere human who is chained by the bonds of love for ones kin and such a love will not allow me to do it. He is God and no task is impossible for him so he can do what he wants. In other words I won't do his bidding, definitely not of my own volition.

There is always a logical way out!

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2006, 12:45:53 PM »
Since we are playing what-ifs. If he existed and proved in a manner that is indisputable and then ordered me to murder my kids I would tell him that he can do it himself. My escape route would be that I am a mere human who is chained by the bonds of love for ones kin and such a love will not allow me to do it. He is God and no task is impossible for him so he can do what he wants. In other words I won't do his bidding, definitely not of my own volition.

There is always a logical way out!

Your not thinking it through.....

IF God appeared and proved to you everything, that he sent His son to die for YOU that you and your child could have eternal life through repentance, you wouldn't sacrifice your own child to Him even though He sacrificed his for you? 

snatch_clean

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2006, 12:49:10 PM »
Your not thinking it through.....

IF God appeared and proved to you everything, that he sent His son to die for YOU that you and your child could have eternal life through repentance, you wouldn't sacrifice your own child to Him even though He sacrificed his for you? 
Since his son already did the dying there is no reason mine should! ;)
I can't really play what ifs. Besides you get eternal life one way or the other. I would rather trust to be in hell than live in Heaven with a guy requires murder their way into the club. The fact you can even hypothetically pose this question about your loving and merciful god is....(complete the sentence).

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2006, 12:51:57 PM »
When has He required murder?  And Johnny boy is the one who brought up the question in the first place.  I am just entertaining it for boardoms sake......

Colossus_500

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2006, 02:01:36 PM »
Quote from: snatch_clean
Since his son already did the dying there is no reason mine should! ;)
I can't really play what ifs. Besides you get eternal life one way or the other. I would rather trust to be in hell than live in Heaven with a guy requires murder their way into the club. The fact you can even hypothetically pose this question about your loving and merciful god is....(complete the sentence).

SC, whether you want Him to be or not, he's YOUR loving and merciful God too.   ;)

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2006, 02:44:04 PM »
Quote
IF God appeared and proved to you everything

bingo mate...

thats what would take for me to believe in god!  :)

and EVERY other athiest out there..

plus crime would virtually disappear...

wonder why he is not doing it
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canyoufeeltheforce

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2006, 05:02:05 PM »
For my religion? No.

For the glory of God? No.

To preserve the life of my children ? YES .

w8tlftr

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2006, 06:32:11 PM »
bingo mate...

thats what would take for me to believe in god!  :)

and EVERY other athiest out there..

plus crime would virtually disappear...

wonder why he is not doing it

I think that goes back to our 'free will' debate, Toxic.


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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2006, 08:10:26 AM »
bingo mate...

thats what would take for me to believe in god!  :)

and EVERY other athiest out there..

plus crime would virtually disappear...

wonder why he is not doing it

Thats what he did bro and they crucified Him.....what makes you think today would be any different?  Also look at Isreal in the desert, all that God did before their very eyes and they still turned their hearts away from Him and worshiped other gods. 

Colossus_500

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2006, 08:40:23 AM »
Thats what he did bro and they crucified Him.....what makes you think today would be any different?  Also look at Isreal in the desert, all that God did before their very eyes and they still turned their hearts away from Him and worshiped other Gods. 

Well said, GB.

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2006, 11:09:40 AM »
Would I die before renouncing my faith in God?  Yes.
R

haider

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2006, 12:50:21 PM »
Anyone who wouldnt simply doesnt have enough faith.. And Im not talking abt whackos killing innocent people either. What Im saying is more a long the lines of what Colossus said, and fighting for a good cause.
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manni

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2006, 02:29:48 PM »
Anyone who wouldnt simply doesnt have enough faith.. And Im not talking abt whackos killing innocent people either. What Im saying is more a long the lines of what Colossus said, and fighting for a good cause.

A good enough cause for muslims is people who aren't muslims. Evidence for this statement? The koran, and the daily acts of terrorism performed around the world on a daily basis.

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2006, 03:26:54 PM »
haha, lets see your evidence, though no matter what I say or what I refute, you wouldnt care cause what you believe already is the result of pure hate and ignorance.
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manni

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2006, 03:55:07 PM »
It's written in the koran, can't be arsed finding quotes but they're there.

Real world facts come from the events across the world such as darfur sudan, 911, madrid, london bombings, beheading of children in indonesia, daily bombings in iraq etc etc, all in the name of your pig faith.

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2006, 04:11:27 PM »
haha, and how many people are being killed in the name of your "secular democracy"?? Your argument is pathetic at best, and your deductions are downright retarded(deviod of rationale, but full of ignorance and hate). Lets see the Quranic verses, Im callin you out you lyin scumbag!
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manni

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2006, 05:25:09 PM »
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all other religions ) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians ) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued . (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) 9:29."

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Narrated Ali, "Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's messenger, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky, then ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you, (not a Hadith), then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Not only did Muhammad teach that Muslims are to murder those that have left Islam, "wherever you find them", he further taught that a Muslim who commits this type of murder will be doing God's service and be rewarded!

haider

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2006, 06:02:56 PM »
An owning will be commenced pretty soon, just let me take care of this phy shit i need to study for  :D
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haider

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2006, 06:09:13 PM »
I'll give u a chance though, to get out of this one without being humiliated...Read 2-3 verses before and after the verses u posted within context and think to yourself whether they really call for the killing of innocent non-muslims.
So it is upto you for now, can u muster up the balls to be open-minded?
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manni

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2006, 06:13:08 PM »
Who's the one being closed minded? You are young satan follower!

Now go and molest some children like your prophet muhammad (may pig cock be inside him) used to in the good ol' days!

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2006, 06:27:53 PM »
lol, back to the childish insults, such a pussy..Can u simply not even make the effort to understand the shit you're posting? so you're posting verses out of context, without any understanding of it, and refuse to go back and simply, just SIMPLY read 2-3 verses before and after the verses you posted(and then proceed to call me ignorant ;D). Its no problem for me to prove you wrong, but I dont see the point if nothing is gained out of it(Ive done plenty of that when crapture was around). All Im asking for is for you to understand what YOU are posting.
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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2006, 06:33:58 PM »
lol, back to the childish insults, such a pussy..Can u simply not even make the effort to understand the shit you're posting? so you're posting verses out of context, without any understanding of it, and refuse to go back and simply, just SIMPLY read 2-3 verses before and after the verses you posted(and then proceed to call me ignorant ;D). Its no problem for me to prove you wrong, but I dont see the point if nothing is gained out of it(Ive done plenty of that when crapture was around). All Im asking for is for you to understand what YOU are posting.

Haider, could you also have a little talk with Johnny Apollo also?  :P




manni

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2006, 06:58:01 PM »
lol, back to the childish insults, such a pussy..Can u simply not even make the effort to understand the shit you're posting? so you're posting verses out of context, without any understanding of it, and refuse to go back and simply, just SIMPLY read 2-3 verses before and after the verses you posted(and then proceed to call me ignorant ;D). Its no problem for me to prove you wrong, but I dont see the point if nothing is gained out of it(Ive done plenty of that when crapture was around). All Im asking for is for you to understand what YOU are posting.

Do you have any Jewish friends?

muslims aren't supposed to have Jewish friends -- or have I read that verse out of context again?

haider

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2006, 07:07:45 PM »
I'm diggin up the verse now, I need to understand that one too..
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haider

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Re: Would you DIE for your Religion?
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2006, 07:33:45 PM »
O ye who believe!  Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other.  And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them.   Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.  (The Noble Quran, 5:51)"

"O ye who believe!  Take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport - whether among those who received the Scripture (i.e., the Bible) before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have Faith (indeed).  (The Noble Quran, 5:57)"

"Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with God.  (The Noble Quran, 4:139)"

"O ye who believe! Turn not (for friendship) To people on whom Is the Wrath of Allah.  Of the Hereafter they are Already in despair, just as The Unbelievers are In despair about those (Buried) in graves.  (The Noble Quran, 60:13)"

In these verses posted above, the word that is used to descrbie "friends" is the arabic word "Awliya", which can mean  (1) Allies; (2) Friends; and (3) Guardians. Now in verse 60:13, the word "tatawallu" is used instead of "awliya", which is actually dervied from the same word.
So follow me here. "Wali", which is the singular for "Awliya" means "guardian",as in a protector or a child's guardian(parents or an uncle, w/e). So depending on the context, the word can ahve different meanings, its just not translated appropriattely in some translations.

Lets take 60:13 again, "la tatawallu qawman"...which translates into "dont take as allies a tribe (a community,or nation)"

So we're not talking abt individual friendships here, plus there is also an emphasis on "rather than take a muslim as a guardian/protector/etc"  I'm sure chrisitans would be the same way, they would rather trust a person of their own faith. simple.

I dont see why Islam would prohibit it since we're told to attract others to our faith based on how we act, and what better way than to be kind and friendly to them...
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