Feeder sets again

[BlackMetallic]

If 5 x 5 is the best way to train than you will have a big problem with all the successes using high reps. Champs have been made using high sets and lows sets. Champs have been made using low reps and high reps. I have a problem with anyone who says they have the answers. We have training theories and not training facts. To claim anyone has the optimal way to train is a charlatan. What we have is empirical knowledge. It says volume is the optimal way to train.

It’s been said the best routine is the one you’re not doing

[oldtimer1]

Dianabol was invented after the Soviet Union exploded in Olympic lifting. The American coach was in a bar with the Soviet coach and learned they were using straight testosterone injections. What was happening with the huge dosages was enlarged prostates. Some had to catherize them self to pee. Then the race was on to find a testosterone derivative that had increased anabolic properties with less androgen properties. Dianabol had way more anabolic properties than straight test and less androgen properties. The magic pill was invented and first used in Hoffman's York gym on Olympic lifters. Soon bodybuilders were using it in the sixties.  Anabolic steroids were released into the lifting community. One of the most anabolic steroid pills that followed was Anavar. It has very little androgen properties. What they found out was if you eliminate too much of the androgen properties the drug just wasn't as effective as say a Dianabol. The most powerful oral was Anadrol 50.  I  have seen guys make insane drastic improvement in three weeks on this drug. One pill worked for the majority. Three was insanity with yellowing of the eyes. I severely doubt anything labeled Dianabol, Anavar, Winstrol, or Anadrol is the legit pill today. They are counterfeits and who knows how close they are to yesterdays drugs made in legit American pharmaceutical companies. I wouldn't doubt the crap available is made in China, Mexico or Russia.   

[OlympiaGym]

All the “naturals” in this thread talking about what they read as opposed to what others have lived.

[joswift]

Dianabol was invented after the Soviet Union exploded in Olympic lifting. The American coach was in a bar with the Soviet coach and learned they were using straight testosterone injections. What was happening with the huge dosages was enlarged prostates. Some had to catherize them self to pee. Then the race was on to find a testosterone derivative that had increased anabolic properties with less androgen properties. Dianabol had way more anabolic properties than straight test and less androgen properties. The magic pill was invented and first used in Hoffman's York gym on Olympic lifters. Soon bodybuilders were using it in the sixties.  Anabolic steroids were released into the lifting community. One of the most anabolic steroid pills that followed was Anavar. It has very little androgen properties. What they found out was if you eliminate too much of the androgen properties the drug just wasn't as effective as say a Dianabol. The most powerful oral was Anadrol 50.  I  have seen guys make insane drastic improvement in three weeks on this drug. One pill worked for the majority. Three was insanity with yellowing of the eyes. I severely doubt anything labeled Dianabol, Anavar, Winstrol, or Anadrol is the legit pill today. They are counterfeits and who knows how close they are to yesterdays drugs made in legit American pharmaceutical companies. I wouldn't doubt the crap available is made in China, Mexico or Russia.   

Anapolon in the mid 90s came in a pink and white box, cant remember the lab name, you could buy them over the counter in Spain, cant even find a photo of the box online at all

they were brutal, 2 a day knocked people for 6, I did know one guy who took ten a day, he believed he could stop a bus driving at him, I advised him not to try it

[a_pupil]

Anapolon in the mid 90s came in a pink and white box, cant remember the lab name, you could buy them over the counter in Spain, cant even find a photo of the box online at all

they were brutal, 2 a day knocked people for 6, I did know one guy who took ten a day, he believed he could stop a bus driving at him, I advised him not to try it

abdi ibrahim ones were around in the 90s?

[joswift]

abdi ibrahim ones were around in the 90s?

I know people who used to travel to Andorra on the Spain France border to buy them, it was one of the last places that sold them over the counter.

[a_pupil]

I know people who used to travel to Andorra on the Spain France border to buy them, it was one of the last places that sold them over the counter.

they're turkish made now I think. I brought some last about 4-5 years ago.

You can get some decent stuff at turkish pharmacies. They have legit pharma primo and anadrol. It'd be golden if they had schering testovirons there as well, but for some reason they don't (despite having schering primo). I believe it's probably because the testovirons are made in pakistan

[IroNat]

The myth of Ziegler inventing D-bol:

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/dianabol-john-ziegler-myth/

[pellius]

Ziegler obtained D-bol from Ciba.  He didn't invent it. It takes a large pharmaceutical company to create a pharmaceutical like D-bol.

Ziegler became known as the source of D-bol because he supplied it to York lifters.

He was the first gym pusher.

A "company" doesn't create or invent anything. It's a person or a group of people. In this case of Dianabol, it was John Ziegler that invented it and Ciba manufactured and distributed it. But believe what you want.

[IroNat]

A "company" doesn't create or invent anything. It's a person or a group of people. In this case of Dianabol, it was John Ziegler that invented it and Ciba manufactured and distributed it. But believe what you want.

Funny that Ziegler's name is nowhere to be found on the list of chemists and scientists who developed d-bol.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/dianabol-john-ziegler-myth/ 

"So who really created Dianabol?

The following illustrious and prolific steroid hormone chemists at CIBA Pharmaceuticals (Switzerland) all share credit for its invention: Albert Wettstein, Alfred Hunger, Charles Meystre, Ludwig Ehmann, Ernst Vischer, Hans Peter Frey and Walter Voser. They were all part of the team that first outlined the synthesis of methandrostenolone in the Swiss-founded scientific journal Helvetica Chimica Acta.

    Vischer E, Meystre C, Wettstein A. Herstellung weiterer 1-Dehydrosteroide auf mikrobiologischem Wege. Helv Chim Acta 1955;38:1502-6.
    Meystre C, Frey H, Voser W, Wettstein A. Gewinnung von 1,4-Bisdehydro-3-oxo-steroiden. HeIv Chim Acta 1956;39:734-42.

The inventors of record in the United States patent for methandrostenolone (US 2900398) are listed as Wettstein, Hunger, Meystre, and Ludwig Ehmann of CIBA. The patent application only references the aforementioned 1956 Helvetica Chimica Acta study.

The CIBA researchers were no lightweights. Wettstein collaborated with the Leopold Ružička’s research team that won the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for their remarkable work on the synthesis of testosterone. The discovery of Dianabol was just another feather in his cap. "

[pellius]

Funny that Ziegler's name is nowhere to be found on the list of chemists and scientists who developed d-bol.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/dianabol-john-ziegler-myth/ 

"So who really created Dianabol?

The following illustrious and prolific steroid hormone chemists at CIBA Pharmaceuticals (Switzerland) all share credit for its invention: Albert Wettstein, Alfred Hunger, Charles Meystre, Ludwig Ehmann, Ernst Vischer, Hans Peter Frey and Walter Voser. They were all part of the team that first outlined the synthesis of methandrostenolone in the Swiss-founded scientific journal Helvetica Chimica Acta.

    Vischer E, Meystre C, Wettstein A. Herstellung weiterer 1-Dehydrosteroide auf mikrobiologischem Wege. Helv Chim Acta 1955;38:1502-6.
    Meystre C, Frey H, Voser W, Wettstein A. Gewinnung von 1,4-Bisdehydro-3-oxo-steroiden. HeIv Chim Acta 1956;39:734-42.

The inventors of record in the United States patent for methandrostenolone (US 2900398) are listed as Wettstein, Hunger, Meystre, and Ludwig Ehmann of CIBA. The patent application only references the aforementioned 1956 Helvetica Chimica Acta study.

The CIBA researchers were no lightweights. Wettstein collaborated with the Leopold Ružička’s research team that won the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for their remarkable work on the synthesis of testosterone. The discovery of Dianabol was just another feather in his cap. "

Funny, I didn't think Millard Baker writing an article on an obscure website was the final authority.

Look, I don't care what you believe. Why do you care so much about what I believe? Let it go, brah. Be satisfied that you can go through life believing that you know so much more than others and what's the real truth about the history of Dianabol.

BTW, look up the patent mention by Baker. Doesn't show anything to do with the creation of Dianabol

Patent US2900398
United States

PROCESS FOR THE MANUFACTURE OF STEROID DEHYDROGENATION PRODUCTS

[OlympiaGym]

Let’s talk about how great D-Bol made you feel the first time you took it.

[pellius]

Let’s talk about how great D-Bol made you feel the first time you took it.

Dr Walczak prescribe three 5mg tabs a day and by the end of the first week, I felt like superman. I never got that feeling again until I tried one tab of Syntex Anadrol. But Dianabol made you feel much, much better.

[OlympiaGym]

Dr Walczak prescribe three 5mg tabs a day and by the end of the first week, I felt like superman. I never got that feeling again until I tried one tab of Syntex Anadrol. But Dianabol made you feel much, much better.

Russian D-Bol for me. Potent AF. Kept taking more and more until the BP headaches forced me to back down to a sustainable level.

[a_pupil]

Let’s talk about how great D-Bol made you feel the first time you took it.

15 mg pink thais for 3 weeks felt like bliss

[Virgil]

Regarding the feeder sets...yes I've included feeder sets ever since reading the post...and yes it's worked very well for me..so much so that I do a feeder set for every bodypart now....Piana was very knowledgeable when it came to bodybuilding.

[pellius]

Regarding the feeder sets...yes I've included feeder sets ever since reading the post...and yes it's worked very well for me..so much so that I do a feeder set for every bodypart now....Piana was very knowledgeable when it came to bodybuilding.

Do you happen to have before and after pics?

[illuminati]

You lost me at your first sentence. Every hear about ATP? That's in exercise physiology. I guess it's existence  was a theory until researchers actually measured the concentration in the muscle post exertion. Same with citrase synthase and a host of other substances directly responsible for muscle growth. That's not theory. It's fact.

The  laughable part about bodybuilding is it never amounted to anything until steroids hit the market. DeLormes' method for hypertrophy was the state of the art in exercise physiology and it isn't a theory. It worked on lots of soldiers recovering from war injuries. The old 5x5 method used by Reg Park was pretty much a parallel system to Delorme's and it still works well. As well as can be expected given that all physical adaptations still follow endocrinological cycles discovered by Hans Selye. That's no theory either. You can measure cortisol levels precisely as a function of stimulus and response.

As soon as Dianabol hit the gyms  everybody had this "magic" routine to get bigger. They just failed to mention Mother's little helper. It was created by a bunch of chubby guys in Switzerland.

And Thanks Be To Those Chubby Men in Switzerland. 2nd best invention after Fit Big Boob Blondes. 👍🏻

[fredrollon]

Wrong!

Fortunately, in 2020 all the United States patents, from the 20th century, are a few clicks away.
So this can be settled one way or the other.

PROCESS FOR THE MANUFACTURE OF STEROED DEHYDROGENATON PRODUCTS Albert Wettstein and Alfred Hunger, Basel, Charles Mey stre, Arlesheim, and Ludwig Ehmann, Basel, Switzer land, assignors to Ciba Pharmaceutical Products Inc., Summit, N.J.
Application for patent: June 11, 1957
Patented Aug. 18, 1959
Patent number: 2,900,398 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2900398A/en

(example 3 -  the manufacture of 1-dehydro-17a-methyl-testosterone (ie dianabol) is the relevant part)
(click on download pdf to see the photocopy of the original document)

[fredrollon]

This patent application on one of the effects of this new drug ,as noted by the Swiss research team, is kind of interesting too:

INCREASING ANABOLIC ACTIVITY WITH 1-DE HYDRO-17α-METHYLTESTOSTERONE Albert Wettstein and Ernst Vischer, Basei, and Charles Meystre, Ariesheina, Switzerland, assignors to Cita Pharmaceutical Products, Inc., Summit, N.J.
Application June 4, 1958
Patented Mar. 22, 1960
Patent number : 2,929,763

1-dehydro-17α-methyl-testosterone is a potent anabolic agent without sex-specific androgenic action. It is known that androgenic hormones have an anabolic action and are therefore used clinically in cases where increased protein synthesis is required. However, the sex-specific action of such hormones may have undesirable effects. 1-dehydro-17o-methyl-testosterone represents a genuine advance in that it has an anabolic action with virtually no sex-specific properties and can be very advantageously used in place of the androgenic hormones, for this reason,

….......………………

The independence of the anabolic action of  1-dehydro 17α-methyl-testosterone from its sex-specific effects can also be demonstrated in human being...….

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2929763



....................

Ziegler was involved in research  with CIBA to improve the manufacture of dianabol ,but the original sources do not credit him the first synthesis of dianabol.

PURIFICATION OF 1-DEHYDRO-17α-METHYL. TESTOSTERONE CONTAMINATED BY SE BLENUM Alfred Hunger, Basel, Switzerland, and John Benjamin Ziegler, Summit N.J., assigners to Ciba Corporation, a corporation of Delaware
Filed Dec. 3, 1959, Ser. No. 856,901
Patented Aug. 7, 1962
Patent number: 3,048,603

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3048603A/en

[pellius]

Fortunately, in 2020 all the United States patents, from the 20th century, are a few clicks away.
So this can be settled one way or the other.

PROCESS FOR THE MANUFACTURE OF STEROED DEHYDROGENATON PRODUCTS Albert Wettstein and Alfred Hunger, Basel, Charles Mey stre, Arlesheim, and Ludwig Ehmann, Basel, Switzer land, assignors to Ciba Pharmaceutical Products Inc., Summit, N.J.
Application for patent: June 11, 1957
Patented Aug. 18, 1959
Patent number: 2,900,398 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2900398A/en

(example 3 -  the manufacture of 1-dehydro-17a-methyl-testosterone (ie dianabol) is the relevant part)
(click on download pdf to see the photocopy of the original document)

I just posted that website a few posts up. And methyl-test is not Dianabol (Metandienone).

[fredrollon]

I just posted that website a few posts up. And methyl-test is not Dianabol (Metandienone).

You are right.  Methyl testosterone is not dianabol .

However, 1-dehydro-17α-methyl-testosterone is the chemical name for methandienone or metandienone or methandrostenolone ie dianabol.

As Ziegler and his co-authors stated in the link above:

" It has been found that 17α-methyl-testosterone can be converted in high yield to 1-dehydro-17α-methyl-testosterone, a highly active anabolic agent known under the generic name methandrostenolone…."

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/40/23/6a/b6cb062373bd95/US3048603.pdf

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/d8031?lang=en&region=GB

[pellius]

You are right.  Methyl testosterone is not dianabol .

However, 1-dehydro-17α-methyl-testosterone is the chemical name for methandienone or metandienone or methandrostenolone ie dianabol.

As Ziegler and his co-authors stated in the link above:

" It has been found that 17α-methyl-testosterone can be converted in high yield to 1-dehydro-17α-methyl-testosterone, a highly active anabolic agent known under the generic name methandrostenolone…."

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/40/23/6a/b6cb062373bd95/US3048603.pdf

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/d8031?lang=en&region=GB

I'm not sure why you just keep repeating what I just said. You repost the patent that I had already posted and you defined Dbol with the chemical label that I had just made clear in the very post you are replying to?

[fredrollon]

I'm not sure why you just keep repeating what I just said. You repost the patent that I had already posted and you defined Dbol with the chemical label that I had just made clear in the very post you are replying to?

Methyltestosterone (also known as 17α-methyltestosterone) is not the same as dianabol. You are correct,there.

However, 1-dehydro-17α-methyl-testosterone ,in the link we both posted, is dianabol. It seems you are wrong there.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/79/1f/f4/e0f1a66ecace0c/US2900398.pdf

That's all.

[OlympiaGym]

We all know Big Pharma, or any big industry, would never try to take advantage of anyone by using their virtually unlimited legal and other resources to capitalize on someone else’s handiwork.