Ahmaud Arbery - Discussion

[kh300]

Nope , you would stop and politely ask what the problem is.

Yes. But I said worst case scenario I'd run away. Had I been confronted because I was doing something suspicious I would not ask what the problem is I would just run away. If had had been doing nothing wrong and felt like I was in danger I would have also ran away.

[che]

Yes. But I said worst case scenario I'd run away. Had I been confronted because I was doing something suspicious I would not ask what the problem is I would just run away. If had had been doing nothing wrong and felt like I was in danger I would have also ran away.

That's exactly what Ahmaud  tried to do

[kh300]

That's exactly what Ahmaud  tried to do

Our disagreement is based on our different understanding of direction. Running away to me is moving in the opposite direction of a threat. Your definition is running towards, using a truck for cover, then making a hard left directly into the threat.

[chaos]

What am I looking at here? Though the vid is blurry I see one guy in the truck bed and another (very blurry image) standing in the middle of the street which is when Ahmaud veers to the right to avoid him.

Yes, try a few frames later when that guy is on the right of the truck and as soon as he clears the front, he makes a hard left turn and attacks the guy holding the shotgun.

BTW, all the people bringing up the dad and his LE background, he was in the bed of the truck, not doing anything.

[pellius]

What would you do if you were jogging at night ,and 2 black males with guns confronted you?

It doesn't even have to be a night. If the jogger was White and the armed guys were Black and the situation was exactly the same the opinions here would be very different. It would automatically be assumed that the Hebrews were looking for trouble.

There is a lot of reverse racism where the minority gets a pass but it doesn't help our cause when it becomes a Matt Canning knee-jerk reaction every time a Black is involved.

[pellius]

Yes, try a few frames later when that guy is on the right of the truck and as soon as he clears the front, he makes a hard left turn and attacks the guy holding the shotgun.

BTW, all the people bringing up the dad and his LE background, he was in the bed of the truck, not doing anything.

Not trying to argue for the sake of arguing but genuinely interested in the truth. I see a guy in the truck bed and I see a guy standing in the middle of the street. That's when Ahmaud veers to the right, which seems to me in an attempt to avoid the guy standing in the street. Then you see a glimpse of the man with the shotgun walking across the front of the truck presumably to confront the jogger.

Again the jogger veers to the right when he sees the guy with the shotgun standing there in the middle of the street. Then we see the guy with the gun walk over to the other side, the driver's side, to confront the jogger. There is a point where the video veers off and you don't see either of them. We can assume that they met around the front of the truck.

To me, it seems obvious the armed man fully intended to confront the jogger by walking to the other side when he saw the jogger veer to the right to avoid him.

[chaos]

Not trying to argue for the sake of arguing but genuinely interested in the truth. I see a guy in the truck bed and I see a guy standing in the middle of the street. That's when Ahmaud veers to the right, which seems to me in an attempt to avoid the guy standing in the street. Then you see a glimpse of the man with the shotgun walking across the front of the truck presumably to confront the jogger.

Again the jogger veers to the right when he sees the guy with the shotgun standing there in the middle of the street. Then we see the guy with the gun walk over to the other side, the driver's side, to confront the jogger. There is a point where the video veers off and you don't see either of them. We can assume that they met around the front of the truck.

To me, it seems obvious the armed man fully intended to confront the jogger by walking to the other side when he saw the jogger veer to the right to avoid him.

There's a section of time between your two screenshots. Slow the video down to .25 speed and take a look. You can clearly see the runner make a hard left across the front of the truck and go after the guy holding the shotgun. This screenshot shows the guy with the shotgun backing up as the runner is coming towards him. The guy with the shotgun doesn't cross the truck to the passenger side. BTW my screenshot was taken just after yours where you can see the guy holding the shotgun is about one step forward towards the front of the truck.

[pellius]

There's a section of time between your two screenshots. Slow the video down to .25 speed and take a look. You can clearly see the runner make a hard left across the front of the truck and go after the guy holding the shotgun. This screenshot shows the guy with the shotgun backing up as the runner is coming towards him. The guy with the shotgun doesn't cross the truck to the passenger side. BTW my screenshot was taken just after yours where you can see the guy holding the shotgun is about one step forward towards the front of the truck.

Please post that as a screenshot. What I see is Ahmaud veering right to avoid the man with the gun, the guy with the gun walks across the front of the truck to confront Ahmaud. Now as Ahmaud runs along the side and around the truck to get back on the road he is met with a gun pointing a shotgun at him. He obviously feels threatened and his instinct is to attack and grab the gun barrel pointing at him.

The fact remains that those two men had every intention to confront Ahmaud making them the aggressors and therefore they cannot claim self-defense as they initiated the confrontation. You can question Ahmauds actions but if someone pointed a gun at me I am going to assume that he intends to use it. It would depend on the situation as to my chances of defending myself. With a handgun, it's a lot riskier but with a shotgun barrel pointed inches from you, you have a much better chance grabbing the and misdirecting the barrel which is what Ahmaud successfully did. But during the struggle, he could not maintain control and got shot.

[tommywishbone]

Did he run to the left? Did he run to the right? How much did the shotgun weigh? Did he grab the shotgun? What color were his underpants?

All moot.

He went looking for trouble and he found it. That's how works. Don't start shit and there won't be any shit.

Buckwheat went out to steal. Now he's dead.  The end.

[pellius]

Did he run to the left? Did he run to the right? How much did the shotgun weigh? Did he grab the shotgun? What color were his underpants?

All moot.

He went looking for trouble and he found it. That's how works. Don't start shit and there won't be any shit.

Buckwheat went out to steal. Now he's dead.  The end.

He did not steal anything. There is no evidence that he made any trouble and whether or not he was looking for trouble can only be determined if you can read another person's mind or intention.

Would you feel the same way if the jogger was White and the armed men were Black?

[Agnostic007]

Couple of points.

1. If he didn't have permission to be in that house under construction he was trespassing. Doesn't matter that others have done the same.
True, and trespassing in Texas for an example is a class C misdemeanor much like a speeding ticket and notice to vacate is required

2. He ran after he was confronted for being in the building. Was he jogging?

I think he ran (look like at a jogging pace) when he was done looking around.  I don't think he even knew people knew he was in there

3. They can legally carry weapons in that state

4. A civilian can make a civilian arrest for a felony holding a person for the cops.
No felony was committed

5. The father was a retired cop who knew the guy from a previous weapons charge. 
Has it been established he knew then or did he realize it later?
6. He grabbed the shotgun. In light of the previous weapons charge after fighting for the guy's gun was he justified in shooting him or should he have surrendered his legally carried  weapon to him?
The previous weapons charge is irrelevant and again it hasn't been established McMichaels had any idea at the time who that was. Travis shouldn't have had the weapon and trying to intercept him to begin with. That will make a difference in court

Personally I would have called the cops and have never gone to look for the guy.
Most reasonable people would which is why this is in the news along with the fact it seemed no one was going to do anything about it

[Agnostic007]

Agnostic, do you still believe the owner wasn’t concerned about trespassers?



https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/texts-reveal-police-enlisted-help-suspect-arberys-death-months-before-shooting/TO367WP3HVAYHC2MHABCT2EL2Y/


BRUNSWICK, Ga. — Channel 2 Action Newshas learned that police in south Georgia enlisted help from one of the suspects accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery to keep an eye on a construction site the homeowner reported trespassers on.


Channel 2′s Tony Thomas obtained text messages sent by a Glynn County police officer to Larry English, who owned the construction site where Arbery appeared on surveillance video before he was shot and killed.


The texts instructed English, who lives two hours away from the property, to call Gregory McMichael if any issues came up with people caught trespassing.

“Greg is retired law enforcement and also a retired investigator from the DA’s office,” was the message Officer Robert Rash texted to English on Dec. 20, 2019. Rush also included McMichael’s phone number and conveyed the message that McMichael "said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera.”

I read that. He was concerned about trespassers but said nothing was ever stolen and he certainly didn't think Arbery should have died for it.   

[Agnostic007]

Trespassing of  structure is a burglary. That is a felony. So an civilian arrest for a felony can only happen at the immediate time the crime was committed? If you were roaming through houses being constructed and the owner wanted to press charges you wouldn't have a defense in court.

no... no it's not.

[Agnostic007]

Not trying to argue for the sake of arguing but genuinely interested in the truth. I see a guy in the truck bed and I see a guy standing in the middle of the street. That's when Ahmaud veers to the right, which seems to me in an attempt to avoid the guy standing in the street. Then you see a glimpse of the man with the shotgun walking across the front of the truck presumably to confront the jogger.

Again the jogger veers to the right when he sees the guy with the shotgun standing there in the middle of the street. Then we see the guy with the gun walk over to the other side, the driver's side, to confront the jogger. There is a point where the video veers off and you don't see either of them. We can assume that they met around the front of the truck.

To me, it seems obvious the armed man fully intended to confront the jogger by walking to the other side when he saw the jogger veer to the right to avoid him.

That's how it looks to me. And from what I've read, this was the 2nd attempt they made to cut him off.. he turned around and headed the other way the 1st time.  They didn't give up and tried to cut him off again. This time he tried to avoid them by running to the passenger side and Travis attempted to close the distance at which point Arbery made the fatal decision to try and take the weapon from him.

[Agnostic007]

Our disagreement is based on our different understanding of direction. Running away to me is moving in the opposite direction of a threat. Your definition is running towards, using a truck for cover, then making a hard left directly into the threat.

You may not be aware he had already been confronted moments earlier and had done a 180 only to be cut off again. Since that didn't work he likely decided to try and get past them. 

[Primemuscle]

Trespassing of  structure is a burglary. That is a felony. So an civilian arrest for a felony can only happen at the immediate time the crime was committed? If you were roaming through houses being constructed and the owner wanted to press charges you wouldn't have a defense in court.

In this case, the owner doesn't have an issue with folks being on the construction site. The laws regarding trespassing are vague.

In most states criminal trespassing is punishable by a misdemeanor though in some it is considered a felony. Almost without fail the distinction is based on the situation and intent of the trespasser. In almost all cases property owners have greater legal recourse when they’ve met the state’s definition for proper verbal or written notice.

Georgia no trespassing laws are similar to those in many other states. They are detailed in the Georgia Statutes and Codes § 16-7-21 – Criminal trespass. Trespassing is when someone knowingly enters and remains on private property without the proper authorization of the owner or an agent. There is no specific verbiage around posted signage other than violators must have received “notice from the owner’ prior to entry – which if interpreted presumably could mean verbal warning or posted signage. Unlike other states this is unclear.

[Primemuscle]

Yes, try a few frames later when that guy is on the right of the truck and as soon as he clears the front, he makes a hard left turn and attacks the guy holding the shotgun.

BTW, all the people bringing up the dad and his LE background, he was in the bed of the truck, not doing anything.

Yeah but later, he's who leaked the video.

[jr]

There's a section of time between your two screenshots. Slow the video down to .25 speed and take a look. You can clearly see the runner make a hard left across the front of the truck and go after the guy holding the shotgun. This screenshot shows the guy with the shotgun backing up as the runner is coming towards him. The guy with the shotgun doesn't cross the truck to the passenger side. BTW my screenshot was taken just after yours where you can see the guy holding the shotgun is about one step forward towards the front of the truck.

Enhance!

[jr]

Enhance!

I think the wheel blocking the shadow of the black guy is actually the transmission/differential.

[SF1900]

no... no it's not.

Yup, you’re right, but guess it depends on the State:

“A Trespass in Structure or Conveyance is typically charged as a second degree misdemeanor, punishable by up to 60 days in jail. However, if a person is present in the structure where the trespass occurs, then trespass is considered a first degree misdemeanor, punishable by up to 1 year in jail.“

[Thin Lizzy]

In this case, the owner doesn't have an issue with folks being on the construction site. The laws regarding trespassing are vague.

In most states criminal trespassing is punishable by a misdemeanor though in some it is considered a felony. Almost without fail the distinction is based on the situation and intent of the trespasser. In almost all cases property owners have greater legal recourse when they’ve met the state’s definition for proper verbal or written notice.

Georgia no trespassing laws are similar to those in many other states. They are detailed in the Georgia Statutes and Codes § 16-7-21 – Criminal trespass. Trespassing is when someone knowingly enters and remains on private property without the proper authorization of the owner or an agent. There is no specific verbiage around posted signage other than violators must have received “notice from the owner’ prior to entry – which if interpreted presumably could mean verbal warning or posted signage. Unlike other states this is unclear.

Why do you keep repeating this lie?


The lib media have backed themselves into a corner with the idiotic jogging narrative. Pray tell who was that young man?


https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/suspect-arbery-shooting-had-offered-help-police/gFMpkRpX0Zk5edjvXrE6sN/


The property, owned by Larry English, had a motion-activated camera system that had picked up unknown people going onto the site, including a young man who started entering at night in late October.

English’s phone received an alert and a text with a video each time the cameras activated. He often called police, sometimes texting videos to officers who went to the neighborhood to check on the property

[Thin Lizzy]

I’m seeing people on this thread arguing that the guy didn’t steal anything. If you owned a property and had a problem with trespassers to the point where you installed a surveillance system and you already made calls to the cops, would you leave anything valuable at the site? Would you tell workers not to do so?

[Thin Lizzy]

He did not steal anything. There is no evidence that he made any trouble and whether or not he was looking for trouble can only be determined if you can read another person's mind or intention.

Would you feel the same way if the jogger was White and the armed men were Black?

Had it been a 25-year-old white guy with no work history and two prior convictions, one for theft,  in a construction site in an area where he didn’t live I would say the guy was there looking for shit to steal.

By the way the only evidence we have that this guy was a jogger is because his mother said so.

[Hulkotron]

According to his mother, he was an avid jogger. These days almost every serious runner records runs on a Garmin. I wonder if he had one😂.  If he did, it would show his routes during his many runs..

The "jogging" narrative was dumb from the beginning.  Even if this supposedly-avid-jogger runs in below-knee cargo shorts and "sneakers", he was like 10 miles from home.  We are supposed to believe he was doing a 20-miles (at least) out-and-back, and was not even sweaty?  We are also supposed to believe he stopped at a residential construction site to "get a drink"?  He can't stop at a park or a gas station?  You cannot fool getbiggers that easily.

To me it doesn't matter if "Ahmaud" was a dirtbag or not or if he was exercising vs. fleeing from a crime scene, private citizens still shouldn't be allowed to just roll up and confront you with a gun.  That's for law enforcement, not redneck vigilantes.  But the whole "he was just out jogging and they only pursued him because he's black" narrative is the worst kind of liberal media b.s.

[_bruce_]

Use the J-word and the government will take all your gey-azz Nike shooooes.