Racism - An unsolvable problem - since whites can never understand - discuss

[hardgainerj]

[pellius]

The first thing I wanna take issue with is where you said []"No country has done more to help Blacks and give them more opportunities and success than this country. We fought a war where over a million people died to give Blacks equal rights."[] This is something I've seen rightwingers trot out a lot recently. Thin Lizzy has even posted it here a few times. What y'all seem to conveniently forget (putting aside the question of whether or not that was even what the war was about) is that it was a country at war with itself.  People still wave flags proclaiming the south will rise again. Half of those people who died were in opposition. The same is true for almost everything this country has done to "help blacks" since then.

Your perspective is interesting regarding the War Between the States. You see it as half the country fought to keep slavery, I see it as we fought AND WON the war against the Confederates which led to the freeing of slaves. It should be noted that slavery at that time existed all throughout world history. America is unique in that it fought AND WON the war to eliminate it and change the country and the rest of the world. Why do you focus on the opposition group that lost and has since been discredited? And since that time there has been countless legislation and civil rights acts protecting minorities and we no longer have the institutional racism that we had before. Now, this is not to say there is no racism in this country but there is no longer institutionalized racism where we have actual laws and policies discriminating against Blacks. In fact, it's just the opposite with Affirmative Action programs. I'm sure there are racist in the company that you work for but just the fact that you work there proves it is not a racist company. Having a Black President is proof positive that systemic institutionalize racism no longer exists.

If you believe that Blacks do not have the most protection, opportunities, and success in America which country do you think is better?

[pellius]

Secondly, your black friend in college. [] "Even in college, a Black friend told me he always keeps track at how many Blacks are in the class. They all do. Always keeping a racial count to further convince them how they are the minority and by definition oppressed."[] Setting aside the fact that just because your black friend in college did something doesn't mean all blacks do, let's just skip ahead to the fact that you say this on the very next page of the same thread:
"But if I should find myself in a situation where I am surrounded by gays or in a gay culture it would affect me. There is an area in Hawaii that is a place where "Mahus" (guys that act like girls) and transexuals congregate. Of course, in those circumstances, I can leave but my point is that how a person looks and behaves does have an effect on others.  "

So, why is it somehow more acceptable that you keep track of people surrounding you that don't affect you? Why is it a character weakness in your then friend (and, thus all blacks, apparently)? Fatties and homos that have nothing to do with you affect your mood and the ambience and that's normal, but noticing that you're the only minority in a room is a shell game that all blacks use to convince us we're victims? Why wouldn't a similar set of concerns apply? What's the difference?

You caught me making a very common error in categorically lumping everybody into one group when I made the sloppy and erroneous claim that "They all do." I try to be careful about making such all-encompassing claims. You noted and called me on it and you are correct and I retract that claim.

There is a clear distinction between a person's race and their behavior and appearance. I don't go around counting and keeping track of fatties, or people who dress or behave in a manner I find offensive or their sexual proclivities. There is nothing a person can do about their race. A person's behavior and appearance it quite a different matter and is a conscious choice. Yesterday, I was in town, the same area where I had the fight with the homeless person. This area is a dump. Homeless people all over the place yelling and shouting to themselves. There was this one guy that was particularly offensive shouting out obscenities and threatening people where even a mother yell at him that she was with her 5-year-old daughter. and to show some consideration and decency. I debated doing something about it but just called the cops and reported it. Even after twenty minutes when I did my business and left the area no cops came.
Again, I said that I have to do something about this but, surprisingly, the response I got here at GetBig stopped me. I regret it. I should have kindly asked that POS to cease and desist and if not give him the beating he so deserved. If the cops are going to turn a blind eye someone has to stand up to decency and civility. I'm actually somewhat ashamed that I let some nebulous form of peer pressure from a forum where I've never met anyone influence me from doing something that I believe in.

The point is I don't go looking and taking note and keeping track at people's appearance and behavior but when it's in my face I notice. And to make the claim, like Prime did, that it's their problem and doesn't affect me and others is simply being disingenuous. I wonder what Prime would think if he had a new neighbor that just let his house and yard over the years got to pot. He doesn't maintain his home where the paint is peeling and in disrepair, and his yard is a dump with broken-down cars, weeds, and trash. His neighbor just tells Prime to mind his own business. What he does with his property doesn't affect Prime's house and property. Of course, Prime can make the argument that it is bringing down property values. But why is that? It's because of the appearance that dump makes on the neighborhood. So it's just like the culture is lessened as the appearance of society becomes more obese, self-indulgent, and less healthy. What difference does it make what a person's race or color is when you are in a situation where you share a common interest and culture as everybody else like in a math class? That is the difference.   

[Al Doggity]

I'll try my best to address and clarify the issues you've raised.

I know there appears to be an incongruity in claiming that White Christian males are at the bottom of the pecking order yet in the same breath also claim that they are not an oppressed class, and in many cases, a privileged class. But it is this very privilege that is the cause of this bias toward them.

I got the part about the two opposing ideas. What confused me is where you said that you were speaking from the context of "leftists" when you said white men were most discriminated against, even though it appeared to be your own perspective. And the quoted post doubles down on that.

Your perspective is interesting regarding the War Between the States. You see it as half the country fought to keep slavery, I see it as we fought AND WON the war against the Confederates which led to the freeing of slaves. It should be noted that slavery at that time existed all throughout world history. America is unique in that it fought AND WON the war to eliminate it and change the country and the rest of the world. Why do you focus on the opposition group that lost and has since been discredited?

Because it's relevant and historically accurate, particularly in response to someone whose trying to make an argument that it's a sign of how benevolent and progressive this country is in regards to race. Firstly, as the other poster pointed out the civil war and the civil rights act happened nearly a century apart. For the sake of brevity, I didn't focus on this in my last post, but there has never been any suggestion that the civil war was about equal rights for blacks. And every progressive move in regards to race that this country has seen has been impeded tooth and nail by a large opposition. And that IS significant in this discussion because the opposition not only wielded way more economic power and political influence than the group they were opposing, but they also wielded it over that group. You making that claim is like saying a guy who was wrongly convicted on fabricated evidence gets out after 50 years and multiple re-trials, gets a nominal settlement from the government and that's proof of well the justice system works.  (Incidentally, what is your idea of discredited?)

I'm sure there are racist in the company that you work for but just the fact that you work there proves it is not a racist company.

Let's say there's a  contest, reality show, whatever. You have a bunch of different contestants, most white, a few black, asian, hispanic, etc. Before the contest starts, the producers let the minorities know that they're not going to be a part of the group of finalists. Only the whites contestants would be eligible to be finalists.  Your argument is just the fact that the minorities are allowed to participate is proof that the contest is not racist. I don't agree. If there is an imposed ceiling on how well the minorities would be able to do in the contest and race factors into that, I consider it a racist contest.

Having a Black President is proof positive that systemic institutionalize racism no longer exists.

No, it isn't. I see rightwingers post this all the time and it just shows a lack of understanding of what institutional racism means. Obama was elected in what was essentially a democratic election. Individuals voted for an individual. There have always been black individuals who excelled. Even during slavery, jim crow, etc there were black individuals who excelled. Institional racism refers to policies by institutions that affect populations: hiring policies that covertly limit minority workers, law enforcement policies that target minority citizens, gerrymandering that disenfranchises voters, etc.

There is a clear distinction between a person's race and their behavior and appearance.

No, there isn't. People use all three all the time to judge people in the same way. In this very thread you said you use "white" and "American" interchangeably based on what you consider distinct American behavior. The judgements you're applying to fat people here, people often use similar judgements based on race. You've posted assumptions about me based on solely on my race. Right in this thread, multiple people have posted that racism is good. It's laughable that you would post this. This is joswift level debate.

There was this one guy that was particularly offensive shouting out obscenities and threatening people where even a mother yell at him that she was with her 5-year-old daughter. and to show some consideration and decency. I debated doing something about it but just called the cops and reported it...

What does this have to do with anything? This is not a story about people just going about their business. It is a story about people actively harassing people in a way that could become physical.

The point is I don't go looking and taking note and keeping track at people's appearance and behavior but when it's in my face I notice. And to make the claim, like Prime did, that it's their problem and doesn't affect me and others is simply being disingenuous. I wonder what Prime would think if he had a new neighbor that just let his house and yard over the years got to pot. ...

This is a lot of words to get to "when I do it, it's fine and the level I do it at is the correct one." The neighbor's house comparison is a bad one because it could have real world implications on the property values in the neighborhood. No matter how many words you spill, someone else's weight does not inherently affect your person or property. Other than the times you're pressed up against someone heavy on the bus, but the photographic examples you provided showed guys who were not near you or anyone else, for that matter.

Let me ask you this: do you think most white people would notice if they were the only whites in an area? If a couple is driving through a neighborhood they are unfamiliar with, do you think they would notice the ratio of black people in the area ? Or if they walked into a business they were unfamiliar with, if most of the patrons and staff were black, do you think it would affect whether or not they patronized that business? We know for a fact that many do just based on the posts here. Or just reverse the classroom situation: if it was a white girl who wound up in a class where all of the other students and the teacher were black, do you think she would notice? Do you think it would be odd of her to do so? Do you think it would affect her perception of the class? Do you think it would affect how she participated in class, how she expressed herself?

So, ignoring the fact that we're basing this line of discussion on something a teenager told you 40 years ago, why is it so bizarre that he'd be mindful of how he navigated predominately white spaces? Especially at that age. Because it's different when white people do it...

[Earl1972]

Which would you rather be, a fat kid or a black kid? Imagine what it might be like to be a fat, black kid.

Empathy works both ways. Black folks may be more inclined to emphasize with non-blacks who are victimized if white folks had some empathy for their being victims.

How many fat folks are harassed by police because they are fat?

Most people can't fully understand something until they've experienced it themselves. For example, if you've never been  raped, you cannot know how you would react if it happened to you. You an only imagine this.

the blacks would have little sympathy for you considering your sexual preference, no group is more homophobic

E

[pellius]

I got the part about the two opposing ideas. What confused me is where you said that you were speaking from the context of "leftists" when you said white men were most discriminated against, even though it appeared to be your own perspective. And the quoted post doubles down on that.

Because it's relevant and historically accurate, particularly in response to someone whose trying to make an argument that it's a sign of how benevolent and progressive this country is in regards to race. Firstly, as the other poster pointed out the civil war and the civil rights act happened nearly a century apart. For the sake of brevity, I didn't focus on this in my last post, but there has never been any suggestion that the civil war was about equal rights for blacks. And every progressive move in regards to race that this country has seen has been impeded tooth and nail by a large opposition. And that IS significant in this discussion because the opposition not only wielded way more economic power and political influence than the group they were opposing, but they also wielded it over that group. You making that claim is like saying a guy who was wrongly convicted on fabricated evidence gets out after 50 years and multiple re-trials, gets a nominal settlement from the government and that's proof of well the justice system works.  (Incidentally, what is your idea of discredited?)

Let's say there's a  contest, reality show, whatever. You have a bunch of different contestants, most white, a few black, asian, hispanic, etc. Before the contest starts, the producers let the minorities know that they're not going to be a part of the group of finalists. Only the whites contestants would be eligible to be finalists.  Your argument is just the fact that the minorities are allowed to participate is proof that the contest is not racist. I don't agree. If there is an imposed ceiling on how well the minorities would be able to do in the contest and race factors into that, I consider it a racist contest.
No, it isn't. I see rightwingers post this all the time and it just shows a lack of understanding of what institutional racism means. Obama was elected in what was essentially a democratic election. Individuals voted for an individual. There have always been black individuals who excelled. Even during slavery, jim crow, etc there were black individuals who excelled. Institional racism refers to policies by institutions that affect populations: hiring policies that covertly limit minority workers, law enforcement policies that target minority citizens, gerrymandering that disenfranchises voters, etc.
No, there isn't. People use all three all the time to judge people in the same way. In this very thread you said you use "white" and "American" interchangeably based on what you consider distinct American behavior. The judgements you're applying to fat people here, people often use similar judgements based on race. You've posted assumptions about me based on solely on my race. Right in this thread, multiple people have posted that racism is good. It's laughable that you would post this. This is joswift level debate.


What does this have to do with anything? This is not a story about people just going about their business. It is a story about people actively harassing people in a way that could become physical.





This is a lot of words to get to "when I do it, it's fine and the level I do it at is the correct one." The neighbor's house comparison is a bad one because it could have real world implications on the property values in the neighborhood. No matter how many words you spill, someone else's weight does not inherently affect your person or property. Other than the times you're pressed up against someone heavy on the bus, but the photographic examples you provided showed guys who were not near you or anyone else, for that matter.

Let me ask you this: do you think most white people would notice if they were the only whites in an area? If a couple is driving through a neighborhood they are unfamiliar with, do you think they would notice the ratio of black people in the area ? Or if they walked into a business they were unfamiliar with, if most of the patrons and staff were black, do you think it would affect whether or not they patronized that business? We know for a fact that many do just based on the posts here. Or just reverse the classroom situation: if it was a white girl who wound up in a class where all of the other students and the teacher were black, do you think she would notice? Do you think it would be odd of her to do so? Do you think it would affect her perception of the class? Do you think it would affect how she participated in class, how she expressed herself?

So, ignoring the fact that we're basing this line of discussion on something a teenager told you 40 years ago, why is it so bizarre that he'd be mindful of how he navigated predominately white spaces? Especially at that age. Because it's different when white people do it...

Before I address your points you ignored one of the very issues that brought up this debate. My claim that no one has done more for Blacks and minorities than America. You disagree. So which country do think has done more for the advancement of Black people and minorities in general?

[Methyl m1ke]

Before I address your points you ignored one of the very issues that brought up this debate. My claim that no one has done more for Blacks and minorities than America. You disagree. So which country do think has done more for the advancement of Black people and minorities in general?

Gotta give dude a chance to think of a straw man he can divert the conversation to. Im sure he will come up with one, lets see how creative he can get.

[Kwon]

You are fucking delusional. Here is reality-blacks are despised and treated like shit because their behavior deserves it. Yes there are cases I see where I feel a black man has been treated in a very egregious way and thats how the cookie crumbles. Black people act like idiots they dont work hard and always play the race card if they get the chance. That is REALITY. i have seen it many times and in my 40 years on this planet every black I have befriended stole from me the very few I ha e worked with were lazy pieces of shit. I do have a couple black friends who are decent honest people but they are the exception and I enjoy theitlr company insight and am proud to say they are friends.

So lets keep it real. I went to junior college pursuing a nursing degree. I saw plenty of blacks on campus. Guess how many i saw in my science classes? Two. And both were girls and one from kenya the other from Nairobi. Both were friends of mine, real sweet decent girls. Very smart straight A students.

Where were the rest? It seems like actual black people from Africa are quite intelligent and act proper in public. American blacks are, by and large, well i wont say the word. But you get the point.

 Oh and every black man child i asked told me the same thing- "im a communications major." Whatever bro.

Lets be honest, black people in this country for several generations have squandered opportunity. You cant blame racism because it does not exist. If anythi g the opposite is true, blacks have more opportunity than any other race. And they blow it and dont give a fuck and the rest of society is tired of pulling their weight and makibg excuses for them. For you, I should say. Your people and the disgusting culture you love so much are a cancerous tumor that apparently is going to need radiation and chemotherapy to remove. And you will be removed, its really a matter of time. Dont worry, you wont be missed. We have enough rap music and espn highlights to pass the time. Your time as a guest in the garden of eden is coming to a close.

+1

[Primemuscle]

Why does it make a difference to me? Well, for one, I work in town where there is no parking unless you want to pay $20/day or $400/month so I take public transportation. Having a 300lb person sitting next to you, having his fat press against you is not comfortable. And they don't give a crap. It's almost like they have this chip on their shoulder as if to say, "Yeah, I'm fat. What of it?" Also, many will just take up three seats no matter how crowded the bus is.

Then there is a more subtle and hard to explain or quantify. The environment, mood, ambiance created. When you go to public places now there are just herds of fat people, always munching and chewing on something (my mom use to comment that when she first came to this country she noticed that Americans seem to always be eating). There is a measure of disgust to all this blatant self-indulgence and gluttony. It's similar to, say, you are in an environment where everyone is dressed in rags showing parts of their bodies that would be better left unseen. Like when you see the ass-crack of someone who wears his pants to low. How people behave and look creates a certain mood or environment that has an effect on other people. Sure, you or anyone else, being gay doesn't affect me. It is, or should be, a private matter. But if I should find myself in a situation where I am surrounded by gays or in a gay culture it would affect me. There is an area in Hawaii that is a place where "Mahus" (guys that act like girls) and transexuals congregate. Of course, in those circumstances, I can leave but my point is that how a person looks and behaves does have an effect on others. Imagine if you joined a gym and you realized that most of the members were White Supremacists and hated all minorities? Even though personally they left you alone would you feel comfortable being in that environment?

Lastly, because "tolerance" -- tolerance of all behavior and appearance -- is the now sacrosanct you get more aberrant behavior or behavior that should not be encouraged. Being fat is not a good thing no matter how you try to paint it. When I saw my niece start to get a little chunky when she turned about ten years old I made her aware of it. I have seen what life is like when a girl is fat. That's just reality. A kid is clueless about that but once I called attention to it she became more aware and kept it in check. Some of her cousins were not as fortunate and now are suffering for it. One of my other nieces has been suffering trying to lose thirty pounds which is so hard for a person programmed to be fat. Now people just accept it and say it's fine but inside they're glad they aren't going through life a big fatso because they know it matters no matter what kind of lip service is  paid. It's kind of sad for me when I see a fat kid and their fat parent indulging them. There is this mom on the bus that is constantly giving her kid pieces of candy to keep her quiet. The kid started to get restless she gets a treat. Just like training a dog except she's being trained to act like a brat. The mother is enormous and loves to wear those stretch pants and her kid, maybe four years old, is already chunky. Another fatso in the making who will breed another generation of fatsos. Just the total disregard for their lives, health, and appearance.

Thanks for answering my question regarding why fat people are intolerable to you. Sitting next to someone who for whatever reason encroaches on your space can be very annoying and hard to ignore. When an abnormally large person sits next to me on a plane where everyone's personal space is already very limited it can be almost unbearable. It's important to note that not all large people are fat. They could even be a 6'2" bodybuilder who weighs somewhere around 300 lbs and it's all muscle. I think these folks should be required to purchase an extra seat or upgrade to business class where there is more room. I generally avoid using public transportation whenever possible because of my phobia of crowds and crowded places. Unfortunately, despite my being a member of Getbig, I am not flush enough to take a private jet when I fly somewhere, so I just grin and bear it. The flight from PDX to Frankfurt is about 13 hours. It is a trip I make ever few years to visit family. I wish there were some other way for me to travel there.

Kid's often are particularly cruel to one another. If she hadn't been already, your niece would be teased by he playmates about being fat "chunky". I'd never have mentioned my nieces and nephews weight to them. I'm kind of surprised you did. Was she one of the kids you helped raise? Fat boys get just as much grief about their weight as do girls. One thing is pretty sure and that is kids are most often conditioned to be unhealthy eaters by the adults around them. Not many young kids fix their own meals which means someone is doing it for them.

Most of my childhood, I was an only child. My mom fixed just enough food for each of us to have a single serving....no seconds or thirds. Also, the available snack food was primarily a bowl of fresh fruit which sat on the kitchen table. Deserts were a rare treat. There was little chance I could ever have become a fat kid. I had two adopted baby sisters who came into the house when I was in my teens. They were not biologically related to one another. One sister was always chubby as a kid even when she was an infant. The other sister never was. So, one could conclude genetics plays a roll in whether someone is fat or not. My chubby sister did slim down when she was an adult.

When my wife and I visited my daughter, grandson and son-in-law in Hawaii, they lived on Schofield Barracks where my son in law was stationed. They pointed out a street near the entrance to Schofield Barracks where prostitutes, both male and female hung out looking for customers. It was not the kind of scene most parents would want their kids exposed to on a frequent basis.

I think you know that I wouldn't like it if a neighbor let their property rundown. There is a single lady who lives across the street and up the hill a few properties. She rarely mowed her grass. It was particularly bad one year. An official from the city visited her. Ever since that time she's had a gardener come once a week to mow the front and back yard. Where I live there is a homeower's association which has the ability to enforce the rules and restrictions in our neighborhood. For example, people cannot park their RV's anywhere where they are visable from the street for longer than a couple of days. Since driveways and garages are in the front of the properties around here, it pretty much eliminates any RV parking. Occasionally someone violates this rule.....but never for very long.

   

[Al Doggity]

Before I address your points you ignored one of the very issues that brought up this debate. My claim that no one has done more for Blacks and minorities than America. You disagree. So which country do think has done more for the advancement of Black people and minorities in general?

I actually thought I did address it.  But let me circle back by answering this post with a strawman question of my own.


If a guy with a Chinese background is convicted in the US wrongly and without cause, would a rational person say to him, "Well, it would be worse if you were still in China"?

If a guy with Italian parents says he's going to vote for a candidate because he wants a more favorable tax policy, would a rational person say "The tax rate here is more favorable here than it is in Italy and a lot of other places, so why is that something that even concerns you"?

If you were looking for a new home in Hawaii and tried to negotiate on the price, would it make sense for the homeowner to say "Well, if it wasn't for white settlers, you'd be living in a rock hut, so you should probably just pay whatever I'm asking"?

So why is it so common for people (specifically right wingers- I've seen variants of this question so many times, almost always from right wingers) to think American blacks should compare their quality of life to other places in the world and other points in history instead of the country and time they live in, like everyone else?

And as for the question ,  legal protections and considerations for minorities is not an exclusively American things. For instance, Germany has made huge capitulations and reparations to jews following WW2. Many countries take in refugees many countries have human rights laws. It wouldn't even be possible to make a 1-to-1 comparison since US is one of the most populous countries with a more ethnically diverse population than most countries of comparable size or economic power.

[pellius]

Thanks for answering my question regarding why fat people are intolerable to you. Sitting next to someone who for whatever reason encroaches on your space can be very annoying and hard to ignore. When an abnormally large person sits next to me on a plane where everyone's personal space is already very limited it can be almost unbearable. It's important to note that not all large people are fat. They could even be a 6'2" bodybuilder who weighs somewhere around 300 lbs and it's all muscle. I think these folks should be required to purchase an extra seat or upgrade to business class where there is more room. I generally avoid using public transportation whenever possible because of my phobia of crowds and crowded places. Unfortunately, despite my being a member of Getbig, I am not flush enough to take a private jet when I fly somewhere, so I just grin and bear it. The flight from PDX to Frankfurt is about 13 hours. It is a trip I make ever few years to visit family. I wish there were some other way for me to travel there.

Kid's often are particularly cruel to one another. If she hadn't been already, your niece would be teased by he playmates about being fat "chunky". I'd never have mentioned my nieces and nephews weight to them. I'm kind of surprised you did. Was she one of the kids you helped raise? Fat boys get just as much grief about their weight as do girls. One thing is pretty sure and that is kids are most often conditioned to be unhealthy eaters by the adults around them. Not many young kids fix their own meals which means someone is doing it for them.

Most of my childhood, I was an only child. My mom fixed just enough food for each of us to have a single serving....no seconds or thirds. Also, the available snack food was primarily a bowl of fresh fruit which sat on the kitchen table. Deserts were a rare treat. There was little chance I could ever have become a fat kid. I had two adopted baby sisters who came into the house when I was in my teens. They were not biologically related to one another. One sister was always chubby as a kid even when she was an infant. The other sister never was. So, one could conclude genetics plays a roll in whether someone is fat or not. My chubby sister did slim down when she was an adult.

When my wife and I visited my daughter, grandson and son-in-law in Hawaii, they lived on Schofield Barracks where my son in law was stationed. They pointed out a street near the entrance to Schofield Barracks where prostitutes, both male and female hung out looking for customers. It was not the kind of scene most parents would want their kids exposed to on a frequent basis.

I think you know that I wouldn't like it if a neighbor let their property rundown. There is a single lady who lives across the street and up the hill a few properties. She rarely mowed her grass. It was particularly bad one year. An official from the city visited her. Ever since that time she's had a gardener come once a week to mow the front and back yard. Where I live there is a homeower's association which has the ability to enforce the rules and restrictions in our neighborhood. For example, people cannot park their RV's anywhere where they are visable from the street for longer than a couple of days. Since driveways and garages are in the front of the properties around here, it pretty much eliminates any RV parking. Occasionally someone violates this rule.....but never for very long.

 

Let me be clear, I don't, and never said, that I find fat people intolerable. I said that I am getting less tolerant of them. They are starting to bother me more -- and this is a very recent phenomenon. There was an ongoing thread named, "Fat people sicken me" or something like that. I never read or participated in that thread. I think this feeling started coming on when I started taking the bus to work. It affected me directly. And that's when I started noting that there are so many fat people everywhere. As I mentioned before, I work with an organization that tries to get homeless people with diabetes to get treatment. So I look for fat people and then check out their calves. If it's swollen, discolored, and starting to have open sores I know they have diabetes. I've seen over the years homeless people that are now in wheelchairs because they had to get their legs amputated.

I believe that as obesity has become more accepted and no one is allowed to say it is not a good thing to be fat and they should be encouraged to take better care of themselves there is no longer any social stigma to being fat. And when something is tolerated, ignored, even encouraged, you will get more of it.

[pellius]

Kid's often are particularly cruel to one another. If she hadn't been already, your niece would be teased by he playmates about being fat "chunky". I'd never have mentioned my nieces and nephews weight to them. I'm kind of surprised you did. Was she one of the kids you helped raise? Fat boys get just as much grief about their weight as do girls. One thing is pretty sure and that is kids are most often conditioned to be unhealthy eaters by the adults around them. Not many young kids fix their own meals which means someone is doing it for them.

Actually, there was more to that story then I let on for the sake of brevity but it's kind of a funny story. This was my younger brother's daughter who lived in Georgia and was the one of the dozens of children in our family tree that was most precious to me. I'm pretty close with my brother and I would visit him frequently in Georgia where they lived. He was quite overweight, along with his wife, and were not very active physically. My niece was only around five at the time and was very active and love physical sports like gymnastics (she later would be on one of those competitive cheerleading teams that travel the country and do those acrobatic moves). Anyway, she was not fat but was kind of muscular like a gymnast but she live in what I call a "fat household" and her body type would tend more to being heavy than skinny.

It was my sister in law that told me that it was my niece, her daughter, that came to her about the issue of fatness. She told me that she tried to set her mind at ease but felt it would be more effective if I talked to her. She felt that it would help if she heard it from a male perspective and from someone not her Dad. She knew I had a very strong bond with her and would listen to me. She wanted me to reassure her about the concept of body image and not to be so preoccupied with it. I was not too comfortable having this "talk" because this was more of a parenting issue and on the serious side.  I just wanted to keep things light and fun with my niece as I only saw her maybe twice a year for a week at a time though she would call me on the phone regularly and write me via email as she got older.

So I brought up the subject with her when we were alone. She was visibly embarrassed. She then told me that she was Costco shopping with her mom and kind of wandered a bit off on her own. She then noticed these two teenage girls laughing and pointing and saying, "Look at that lady's ass. It's bigger than a garbage can cover!" Of course, to a girl of five, they pay close attention to what older pretty "alpha" girls are like. So when my niece turned around to see who they laughing it turned out to be her mom.

Although she didn't tell her mom that these girls were laughing at her she did relate the incident and this became a whole issue. She said that her mom told her not to worry about it. To not care what other people think. To just do what you want and forget about people who judge you because they are not your real friends. There is nothing wrong with being fat. What's important is that you are a good person and try to make the world a better place, blah, blah, blah. Then my niece asks me what I thought about that.

I kind of paused as the value system I've developed over the course of my entire life flashed before my eyes and I swallowed a big lump in my throat.

I took a deep breath and then told her, first of all, it's utter baloney to not care what other people think. I told her that she will hear many sayings in life that sound good but are rubbish. No one should be so selfish and so self-absorbed and not care about other people's feelings. Nobody does that. But you do have to pick and choose what you will care about. I'm going to tell you right now that being fat sucks, especially if you're a girl. You can be the nicest person in the world but you are always going to be getting the short end of the stick in life by being a big fatso. People are going to laugh at your fat ass behind your back.

That doesn't mean you should be preoccupied or obsessed with your body but your health and appearance are very important in this life. We are physical beings and it matters no matter how many people will lie to you and to themselves. Be conscious of your physical appearance. Don't go crazy and start throwing up after every meal but don't act like it doesn't matter and treat yourself like you don't matter. That how you look and how you present yourself doesn't matter.

Of course, her mom was not too pleased with me, but she turned out OK and has had a long term boyfriend that's a great guy. Her older sister is a whale and very much single (both in their twenties).

It reminded me of when my sister asked me to talk to her son because he was so unpopular and was getting very withdrawn and becoming a loner always sulking. When I had my "talk" with him he told me that his mom (she was the one raising him) said that he should just be himself. That if he is "true" to himself and just does what comes naturally things will work out in the end. I told him just what I told my niece. That in life you will here these pearls of wisdom that sound good but in the real world is just balony. I told him that instead of being himself he should try to be someone else. His "self" sucked and spelled loser. He has no personality, no confidence, sulking -- just a real downer. I told him to look at the guys that are popular. They're strong or funny or good at something or try to be good by taking up a sport. I told him to start lifting weights and get jacked and strong. Have a presence. Learn to fight. If you can kick ass you're automatically in the Alpha realm. If people question that kind of thinking, kick their ass and then ask them again. He took up weight lifting, became a Jiu-Jitsu wizard competing in pro tournaments, became popular in school, and is now a fireman with a hot girlfriend and just had his first child. Alpha all the way.

Of course, all his mom remembers was that I told him that he really shouldn't be himself but try to be someone else because his current "self" is a loser.

[Automation]

Wall of text wars!

[Kwon]

Wall of text wars!

+1

[pellius]

I actually thought I did address it.  But let me circle back by answering this post with a strawman question of my own.


If a guy with a Chinese background is convicted in the US wrongly and without cause, would a rational person say to him, "Well, it would be worse if you were still in China"?

If a guy with Italian parents says he's going to vote for a candidate because he wants a more favorable tax policy, would a rational person say "The tax rate here is more favorable here than it is in Italy and a lot of other places, so why is that something that even concerns you"?

If you were looking for a new home in Hawaii and tried to negotiate on the price, would it make sense for the homeowner to say "Well, if it wasn't for white settlers, you'd be living in a rock hut, so you should probably just pay whatever I'm asking"?

So why is it so common for people (specifically right wingers- I've seen variants of this question so many times, almost always from right wingers) to think American blacks should compare their quality of life to other places in the world and other points in history instead of the country and time they live in, like everyone else?

And as for the question ,  legal protections and considerations for minorities is not an exclusively American things. For instance, Germany has made huge capitulations and reparations to jews following WW2. Many countries take in refugees many countries have human rights laws. It wouldn't even be possible to make a 1-to-1 comparison since US is one of the most populous countries with a more ethnically diverse population than most countries of comparable size or economic power.

So you won't answer the question directly. Why is that?

Telling a Chinese that is WRONGLY convicted that it would be worse in China" What kind of analogy is that? Your other analogies are just as silly. Just answer the question.

There is no utopia on earth. There are always trade-offs. The choices you make depends on what your perception is that will leave you better off under the circumstances. It is perfectly valid to ask if you are given one choice over another doesn't imply that your first choice is perfection. Given your current circumstances, you choose to buy one car versus another. If you are not satisfied with your purchase and find something better you will go for that. If that is the best you can do under the circumstance then there is no reason to complain. We always want more, we always want better, we always want the idea. I'm sorry that this world wasn't constructed in such a precise way to meet your every wants and desires. That's life. That's the best we can do at this point in time. We can always  do better. You can always do better but living your life with this underlying sense of resentment is on you.

Now please, no strawman arguments, just answer the simple direct question with a simple direct answer. I have found that in most instances that the reason a person will not answer a simple direct question is that they are hiding something or don't want to admit to something. Is that you.

[nzgs]

The only systemic racism in the west is against whites and it is perpetuated mostly by blacks and jews. You will find that non-whites globally are vastly more racist than whites, who are the only demographic who exhibit self-hatred for things that happened hundreds of years ago, which were also committed by all other races.

Whites need to stand up and deny this jewish narrative entirely. Stop trying to explain why you aren't racist. Be proud of your race and its accomplishments, call out blacks, jews and other races for what they are doing.

[pellius]

Because it's relevant and historically accurate, particularly in response to someone whose trying to make an argument that it's a sign of how benevolent and progressive this country is in regards to race. Firstly, as the other poster pointed out the civil war and the civil rights act happened nearly a century apart. For the sake of brevity, I didn't focus on this in my last post, but there has never been any suggestion that the civil war was about equal rights for blacks. And every progressive move in regards to race that this country has seen has been impeded tooth and nail by a large opposition. And that IS significant in this discussion because the opposition not only wielded way more economic power and political influence than the group they were opposing, but they also wielded it over that group. You making that claim is like saying a guy who was wrongly convicted on fabricated evidence gets out after 50 years and multiple re-trials, gets a nominal settlement from the government and that's proof of well the justice system works.  (Incidentally, what is your idea of discredited?)

What's relevant? That there were people that supported slavery. And  institution that existed all throughout human history. That's more relevant the what makes America unique was they are the first society to end it. That doesn't matter to you? There will always be opposition in all things. It's who wins that matter. You just focus on the ones that were against it and DISCREDITED. And you don't know what I mean by discredited? Haven't you been paying attention? All throughout the country, any reference to the Confederates are being destroyed. Names of schools, institutions, academies are being changed. Statues being taken down or destroyed. Even NASCAR has now banned the displaying of the Confederate flags at their events. How much more discredited can you be? Nothing will ever satisfy you.

The War Between the States didn't cure all the evils of racism but it was a huge advancement to Black rights. And things only got better as time went on. Change doesn't happen overnight. We ended something that existed and was commonplace throughout history. But that doesn't matter to you. All the advancement we've achieved regarding civil rights. It's never enough, never soon enough, doesn't really matter.

Listen to your analogy. You try o equate a guy wrong convicted and imprisoned after 50 yearsand gets just a nominal settlement. That would be valid if you were actually a slave. But your weren't. You didn't suffer the pain of real institutionalize discrimination that your ancestors did. You didn't serve any time of real slavery let alone fifty years. You disgrace and minimize their real suffering when you try to claim their mantle of real oppression.

[pellius]

  Let's say there's a  contest, reality show, whatever. You have a bunch of different contestants, most white, a few black, asian, hispanic, etc. Before the contest starts, the producers let the minorities know that they're not going to be a part of the group of finalists. Only the whites contestants would be eligible to be finalists.  Your argument is just the fact that the minorities are allowed to participate is proof that the contest is not racist. I don't agree. If there is an imposed ceiling on how well the minorities would be able to do in the contest and race factors into that, I consider it a racist contest.
No, it isn't. I see rightwingers post this all the time and it just shows a lack of understanding of what institutional racism means. Obama was elected in what was essentially a democratic election. Individuals voted for an individual. There have always been black individuals who excelled. Even during slavery, jim crow, etc there were black individuals who excelled. Institional racism refers to policies by institutions that affect populations: hiring policies that covertly limit minority workers, law enforcement policies that target minority citizens, gerrymandering that disenfranchises voters, etc.
 

You believe there is some cabal, some deep state think tank, that plots the course for all companies and organizations to ensure that Blacks can never win despite the countless example of those who do? That Benzos has a covert policy to ensure that Blacks will never rise to a certain level. How did that that nig, Don Thompson, sneak through and become the President and CEO of McDonalds at one point? That companies consciously limit the number of minorities they will hire regardless of qualifications when it is actually the opposite and their are many eyes on a company keeping track of how many Blacks, women, and other minorities they hire. You believe there are actual policies in law enforcement designed solely to target minorities? That Gerrymander is designed by race and not political affiliation? You really believe all that? And you wonder why I say that the Black/White divide is analogist to the Palestinian/Israeli divide. You have literally been brainwashed since birth to blame all the ills of you people on the White man. Not the fact that over 75% of Black children are born out of wedlock and without fathers. It's all encompassing power Whites have over your lives.

[Fortress]

Racism is a natural feeling, it’s tribalism. We were never meant to be all mixed together, we all deserve our own sovereign nations. Ethnostates are the only true ways towards peace and happiness.

Preach, brother.

[Fortress]

It is somewhat similar to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Being the only White guy living in an all Black neighborhood for over four years I gain some insight into the culture. Mind you, I really had no preconceived notions regarding Blacks because in Hawaii there are so few and they are mostly in neighborhoods with military bases. So to me, they were no different appearance-wise than Tongans, Samoans, Hawaiians...

Like Palestinians are taught from birth that Jews are their oppressors and the cause of all their problems, such is the case with Blacks vis-a-vis Whites. It's endemic and burned in their culture and even their DNA. All of life is seen through the prism of racism. Even in college, a Black friend told me he always keeps track at how many Blacks are in the class. They all do. Always keeping a racial count to further convince them how they are the minority and by definition oppressed.

One thing White people should understand and burn into their thought processes: there is nothing -- NOTHING -- you can do that will alleviate this. No matter how many affirmative action programs, no matter if they got reparations, no matter if they are disproportionately represented in all aspects of jobs and opportunities it will never be enough. We had a Black president yet we are still a racist country. Blacks represent over 80% of the pro basketball yet the NBA is still racist. Just ask a Black person what it will take for them to just stop with the bitching and moaning.

No country has done more to help Blacks and give them more opportunities and success than this country. We fought a war where over a million people died to give Blacks equal rights. The vast majority of Americans want Blacks to be happy and successful, if only for their own peace and safety. It will never be enough. It has to come from them not White people. The Black inner-city culture is a culture of failure. I don't see this impasse changing in my life time so just forget about trying to appease them and separate yourself as much as you can from their culture and neighborhood and live your own life in peace.

Brutally honest and truthful.

[pellius]

 
No, there isn't. People use all three all the time to judge people in the same way. In this very thread you said you use "white" and "American" interchangeably based on what you consider distinct American behavior. The judgements you're applying to fat people here, people often use similar judgements based on race. You've posted assumptions about me based on solely on my race. Right in this thread, multiple people have posted that racism is good. It's laughable that you would post this. This is joswift level debate
 

There are times when there is such a chasm in two opposing world views that it is beyond debate. It's like me having a debate on whether or not the world is flat. To equate race, something that you are born with and cannot change, with a person's behavior and appearance is just beyond preposterous. I have based my assumptions on inner-city Black culture based on their behavior, not on their race. As I mentioned before, the Blacks here, who primarily come from intact families and are goal-oriented are quite different from the thugs and gangsters that speak in the guttural ghetto-ise ebonics that I lived with in Inglewood, CA. Just like I distinguished between the Hawaiians here. For example, the ones who go to the private Hawaiian-only Kamehameha School to the deadbeat locals who are third-generation welfare/food stamp recipients and speak in that barely literate pidgin accent. I base my assumptions on you based on your posts here on GetBig and it wasn't hard to conclude that you were Black even though I have never met you because you display the classic attitude that most Black people will have. Just as your assumptions about me are based on my posts and that assumption hasn't changed now that you realize that I identify myself with White. So it's not my race but my behavior that.

Again to equate race with behavior and appearance is to me beyond "laughable". So since we both find each other's position in this matter "laughable" there can be no productive debate. Like I said, it's just as if you had told me that you know for a fact that the world is flat. I'm like, "OK, gotcha, I'm outta here."

[harmankardon1]

TLDR whole thread.....

[Primemuscle]

Actually, there was more to that story then I let on for the sake of brevity but it's kind of a funny story. This was my younger brother's daughter who lived in Georgia and was the one of the dozens of children in our family tree that was most precious to me. I'm pretty close with my brother and I would visit him frequently in Georgia where they lived. He was quite overweight, along with his wife, and were not very active physically. My niece was only around five at the time and was very active and love physical sports like gymnastics (she later would be on one of those competitive cheerleading teams that travel the country and do those acrobatic moves). Anyway, she was not fat but was kind of muscular like a gymnast but she live in what I call a "fat household" and her body type would tend more to being heavy than skinny.

It was my sister in law that told me that it was my niece, her daughter, that came to her about the issue of fatness. She told me that she tried to set her mind at ease but felt it would be more effective if I talked to her. She felt that it would help if she heard it from a male perspective and from someone not her Dad. She knew I had a very strong bond with her and would listen to me. She wanted me to reassure her about the concept of body image and not to be so preoccupied with it. I was not too comfortable having this "talk" because this was more of a parenting issue and on the serious side.  I just wanted to keep things light and fun with my niece as I only saw her maybe twice a year for a week at a time though she would call me on the phone regularly and write me via email as she got older.

So I brought up the subject with her when we were alone. She was visibly embarrassed. She then told me that she was Costco shopping with her mom and kind of wandered a bit off on her own. She then noticed these two teenage girls laughing and pointing and saying, "Look at that lady's ass. It's bigger than a garbage can cover!" Of course, to a girl of five, they pay close attention to what older pretty "alpha" girls are like. So when my niece turned around to see who they laughing it turned out to be her mom.

Although she didn't tell her mom that these girls were laughing at her she did relate the incident and this became a whole issue. She said that her mom told her not to worry about it. To not care what other people think. To just do what you want and forget about people who judge you because they are not your real friends. There is nothing wrong with being fat. What's important is that you are a good person and try to make the world a better place, blah, blah, blah. Then my niece asks me what I thought about that.

I kind of paused as the value system I've developed over the course of my entire life flashed before my eyes and I swallowed a big lump in my throat.

I took a deep breath and then told her, first of all, it's utter baloney to not care what other people think. I told her that she will hear many sayings in life that sound good but are rubbish. No one should be so selfish and so self-absorbed and not care about other people's feelings. Nobody does that. But you do have to pick and choose what you will care about. I'm going to tell you right now that being fat sucks, especially if you're a girl. You can be the nicest person in the world but you are always going to be getting the short end of the stick in life by being a big fatso. People are going to laugh at your fat ass behind your back.

That doesn't mean you should be preoccupied or obsessed with your body but your health and appearance are very important in this life. We are physical beings and it matters no matter how many people will lie to you and to themselves. Be conscious of your physical appearance. Don't go crazy and start throwing up after every meal but don't act like it doesn't matter and treat yourself like you don't matter. That how you look and how you present yourself doesn't matter.

Of course, her mom was not too pleased with me, but she turned out OK and has had a long term boyfriend that's a great guy. Her older sister is a whale and very much single (both in their twenties).

It reminded me of when my sister asked me to talk to her son because he was so unpopular and was getting very withdrawn and becoming a loner always sulking. When I had my "talk" with him he told me that his mom (she was the one raising him) said that he should just be himself. That if he is "true" to himself and just does what comes naturally things will work out in the end. I told him just what I told my niece. That in life you will here these pearls of wisdom that sound good but in the real world is just balony. I told him that instead of being himself he should try to be someone else. His "self" sucked and spelled loser. He has no personality, no confidence, sulking -- just a real downer. I told him to look at the guys that are popular. They're strong or funny or good at something or try to be good by taking up a sport. I told him to start lifting weights and get jacked and strong. Have a presence. Learn to fight. If you can kick ass you're automatically in the Alpha realm. If people question that kind of thinking, kick their ass and then ask them again. He took up weight lifting, became a Jiu-Jitsu wizard competing in pro tournaments, became popular in school, and is now a fireman with a hot girlfriend and just had his first child. Alpha all the way.

Of course, all his mom remembers was that I told him that he really shouldn't be himself but try to be someone else because his current "self" is a loser.

As a parent, you would definitely be one who practiced tough love with their kids...as in pulling no punches. Sometimes one's parents are their only advocates. Everyone needs someone who is in their corner when things get rough. I think your sister gave her son sound advice. I doubt she meant that he should be a sullen loser. Pretending to be someone you are not, generally doesn't work out very well. Young people do well when they have a good degree of self confidence.   

Having raised two children, each of whom are still married to their original spouse, have children and grandchildren of their own and comparatively successful lives, I feel lucky. When a baby is born, they don't come with a handbook. As parents, most of us make some mistakes raising our kids. Both my wife and I made our share, I am sure. At no point in their lives did either their mom or I ever suggest they were losers, we encouraged them to be winners and that's what they are.

When my son was 19 years old he was all set to go to West Point and then he met his future wife while he was stationed in Germany. He didn't want to lose her, so moving back to the states wasn't an option thus turned down the opportunity for an education at West Point. His mom and I were floored, West Point seemed like such an opportunity. Well, he has enjoyed a very long and successful career in the army and is well into his second career as a civilian working for the government. He has a lovely wife and three beautiful adult children one of whom is married now with two children of her own. Apparently, my son knew better than his parents what he wanted and needed out of life and he went after it. 

[pellius]

 
Where were the rest? It seems like actual black people from Africa are quite intelligent and act proper in public. American blacks are, by and large, well i wont say the word. But you get the point.

I've found the same thing. I think when you come from a shithole like Africa, a country rich in resources and should, and some have been, prosperous but is ruined by corrupt governments, come to America and see and experience the lifestyle and opportunities available to them they have the one trait that is essential for happiness and the one trait the Al Doggity lacks, and that is gratitude.

I once hired a company to come clean my carpets. Two guys came by and one of them was a Black guy. I had planned to go run some errands while they cleaned so I wouldn't be in the way but when I saw the Black guy I thought better of it. I was leery that he might steal something. But when they introduce themselves and I heard the accent of the Black guy and his polite mannerism all my suspicions vanished in an instance. I thought "Whew, not an American Black."

Now does that make me a racist? The guy was Black. I wasn't born with these preconceived notions about Black people but it was something that developed from real-life experience with Black people. But once I realize that he was a real Black. Someone that doesn't have to make it a point to call himself an "African-American" as American Blacks have as much in common with African Blacks as I do, but is just a Black from Africa it became a non-issue. Same guy same color but different behavior and based on my experience with non-American Blacks I was at ease and left to do my errands.

When I use to work for an organization, PACT (Positive Alternatives for Children Today) trying to rescue kids from 8-12 from joining gangs my beat was the Mar Vista Housing project. This was all Black and Mexican and gang-ridden project. They use to have a front gate and back gate but eliminated he back gate because it made it too easy for cars to drive through the complex to commit drive-by shootings. I would walk through the complex and approach kids that were always milling around the street. I would recruit for jobs (finance through charity) where we would go house to house selling newspaper subscriptions, or candy and cookies. They would get a cut from the sales that they made. The Mexican kids would ask how much they would get paid and the big selling point was that no matter how much they sold or didn't sell, I would take them to eat at Burger King or McDonald's. Their eyes would light up and we would go to their parent's apartment for approval and to sign a release. These Mexican kids would bragged to the bunch of people crammed into their apartment that they got a job and will be making money. The Black kids would just laugh at me. They would tell me that they ain't going no house to house shit in White neighborhoods selling shit for pennies. In my three years working for PACT, I was only able to recruit one Black kid and he was from Eriteria. An African country I never heard of until I met that well mannered and hard-working kid.

And Black people will continue to deny that there is endemic cancer that is ingrained in their culture and continue to blame the White man.

[pellius]

As a parent, you would definitely be one who practiced tough love with their kids...as in pulling no punches. Sometimes one's parents are their only advocates. Everyone needs someone who is in their corner when things get rough. I think your sister gave her son sound advice. I doubt she meant that he should be a sullen loser. Pretending to be someone you are not, generally doesn't work out very well. Young people do well when they have a good degree of self confidence.   

Having raised two children, each of whom are still married to their original spouse, have children and grandchildren of their own and comparatively successful lives, I feel lucky. When a baby is born, they don't come with a handbook. As parents, most of us make some mistakes raising our kids. Both my wife and I made our share, I am sure. At no point in their lives did either their mom or I ever suggest they were losers, we encouraged them to be winners and that's what they are.

When my son was 19 years old he was all set to go to West Point and then he met his future wife while he was stationed in Germany. He didn't want to lose her, so moving back to the states wasn't an option thus turned down the opportunity for an education at West Point. His mom and I were floored, West Point seemed like such an opportunity. Well, he has enjoyed a very long and successful career in the army and is well into his second career as a civilian working for the government. He has a lovely wife and three beautiful adult children one of whom is married now with two children of her own. Apparently, my son knew better than his parents what he wanted and needed out of life and he went after it.

Wow. Turning down West Point. It must have been very disappointing.

It was not about pretending to be someone else. When a person is growing up they are still finding themselves. They need to have guidance and direction. To tell someone who is depressed and lonely to "be himself" means nothing. He doesn't know what to be. He goes to school, sits in class, plays video games, is shy, doesn't have friends, lack confidence. There are certain traits that are universal. One of the simplest things in all it's primal glory is to be strong. Everyone respects strength. And I know how men bond. Women bond by engaging in social type events. They meet and talk, have lunch, tea parties, gatherings. My sister always makes it point for her friends to get together and go to a restaurant and sit and chatter. A social event. Men tend to bond by a common cause. When you are mutually involved in a common cause. Sports are idea. You work as a team and form a bond and friendships that carry on beyond the activity. My nephew was not very athletic but I knew once he gets in the high school gym on a regular basis he's going to start to develop that bond that you start to develop sharing mutual interest and goals. I remember being the skinny runt at my high school gym but eventually I became a regular and soon blended into the "in" crowd as they spotted me and encouraged me in my lifts. Same with BJJ. A lot of these guys aren't natural athletes but getting out there and mixing it up. Helping others as others help you.

I'm about real-life action and real-life results and not about catering to a person's feelings or sensitivities. The world can be a pretty rough and unforgiving place and this generation is really losing the ability to just cope. Soon we will have a generation that hasn't developed an immune system as we sterilize everything and wear masks. Get out there, take you lumps, and then start giving out lumps. In Jiu-Jitsu they use to say you have to start out as a nail before you can be a hammer. I remember my nephew writing me emails about how he gets tossed around like a rag doll in class. I just told him "Welcome to my world". I still get my ass kick on a regular basis. But I get back up and keep going. And I do a bit of ass-kicking myself. That's life. You take some, you give some. Or you can sit on the sidelines and feel sorry for yourself.

Now a couple of weeks ago this guy I know from the gym, in his mid-thirties and pretty jacked told me how he's known my nephew since he first started in Jiu-Jitstu, and now my nephew schools him. He told the last time they trained my nephew tossed him around like a rag doll. LOL.

It works. It works every damn time.