The role and importance of Black people in American society

[Humble Narcissist]

I don't disagree with you, except for the bolded part above.  Just look at the Amish, the Orthodox Jews, and the Asians including Indians.  They don't really integrate, but they are productive, don't mooch government assistance, keep to themselves, and don't bother anyone.

But Negroes are part of society.  The bottom part.

[friedchickendinner]

"The role and importance of Black people in American society"

One would expect a blank page and zero replies.

[Al Doggity]

Note the language. It is "not possible" to give a 1-1 comparison. "Not possible?" Really? It's not possible for me to make a direct comparison of America to North Korea, Cuba, Communist China? For me to accuse him of dodging a question he refuses to directly answer is "ridiculous". Why should he "find it remarkable or noteworthy that a government does things to benefit it's people? "

Those countries don't have the same combination of sizable black population, history of african slavery and current economic might. You know very well what the point of that statement is. You want to make the claim that America has done more to help blacks than anywhere else has, but if I point out that it's also the group that it has caused the most concentrated and prolonged harm to, that is irrelevant and ungrateful. In the context of talking about the state of race relations in America?  Pointing out that institutionalized racial prohibitions didn't stop the day after the emancipation proclamation was signed means I'm dwelling on the negative. Pointing out your factual inaccuracies when discussing the history of race in this country is me dodging. 

Read that statement again. Just the height of ingratitude. People like him should spend a year in an African country or better yet be force to live there.

Why? Because I acknowledge that there are systemic imbalances and think it's okay for those who see them to work to change them?  Or just because you think so? So, you're not only trying to pass yourself off as white but you're also trying to pass yourself off as the arbiter of who gets to stay in America? Get a grip.



As for the topic in the opening post, you could make similar arguments with a lot of different minority populations in this country. Take your Hawaiian brethren for instance... With the exception of tourism related novelties, the islands- and therefore the country-  would also probably be better off without them. Lower public assistance, better health statistics, less racism apparently.

But it's not up to you to decide whose productive enough to stay in America. Like it or not, just as Americans have a responsibility to their country, the country has a responsibility to its citizens. And like it or not, the state of a group's citizenship isn't up to you. They don't have to appease you, they don't have live up to your standards of gratitude , they don't have to check in with you to find out if it's okay to think something is unfair.

[Al Doggity]

If blacks cant make it in the US they cant make it anywhere.

Surely they are miles better off than their african relatives, most africans would love to trade places with them.

How can you go through everyday life and bitch about racism when your relatives in Africia die of malaria by the hundreds of thousands - yearly.

How can they whine about police brutality when in Africa nearly every nation had wars and genocide.

While Black Life Matters protest on the streets in the USA, meanwhile, this has been going on in their motherland:

Why would American Blacks  compare their day-to-day lives to African Blacks anymore than you would? They live in this country, were born in this country, most likely haven't been to Africa and don't know any of their African relatives. Why would they be thinking "at least things are better here than Africa" instead of "these are the circumstances in my life that I'm interested in improving".

[Al Doggity]

This thread is a bit of a cuck move.

Pellius and al dogg go at it in another thread with walls of texts that no one was interested in reading. Now pellius makes another thread baiting al dogg and seeking input from others to validate himself.

Very weak bro. You might as well start wearing a dress and call yourself Philippa.

LOL I've done it (probably to him even), others have done it to me.  There's no foul in getting other people to read publicly posted stuff

[Al Doggity]

I don't disagree with you, except for the bolded part above.  Just look at the Amish, the Orthodox Jews, and the Asians including Indians.  They don't really integrate, but they are productive, don't mooch government assistance, keep to themselves, and don't bother anyone.

Orthodox jews in the US are huge public assistance users

[willl]

This thread is a fine example of a narrow minded person trying to convince fellow narrow minded people that their narrow minded view is the only view possible. The good thing for narrow minded people (at least in their minds) is they can't understand what the hell it is to be anything else than narrow minded and therefore also can't really understand what it is that I'm writing here.
 

[Kwon]

Importance?

[SOMEPARTS]

I don't disagree with you, except for the bolded part above.  Just look at the Amish, the Orthodox Jews, and the Asians including Indians.  They don't really integrate, but they are productive, don't mooch government assistance, keep to themselves, and don't bother anyone.

The USA doesn't require everybody to be the same but it does require citizens - that's my point.

Asians and Indian CITIZENS are a positive example of people taking part of the USA in a limited govt capacity. Those groups are integrated enough to add value to the country immediately and after a couple generations they are just Americans...no hyphenated names or other nonsense necessary. Yes, they have a subculture but they are not a drag on society.

These two groups also shine a glaring spotlight on a certain minority demographic that NEVER handles their own business and never integrates. You have to ask yourself is it racism or just a constant observation of poor citizenship skills that continually "victimizes" this population?

The Amish are a 250,000 person tax-free inbred cult - total outlier group to the issue.

[Dave D]

I've been rolling this around the old grey matter, as a white fellow is prone to do, and a solution is now at hand. Everyone keeps their rights and no one gets oppressed by another ethnicity. Best of all, you get to live amongst your own.

Sadly, I will have to accept not living in the penthouse of Zone 1 with the inbred redheads, but my grey-blue eyes will see me into a nice neighborhood. Really nice. It's nice in Zone 1, although the constant hit ups from Zone 2, 3, and 4 chicks is a little wearisome.

Matt C will need some time to adjust to his placement amongst the Slavs and Mediterraneans in Zones 14-18 or whatever olive shadiness he's got going on there, as will most of our Italian contingent who seem to believe they're somehow a member of the inner circles. I'm sure Pelius will find great contentment among his own people in Zone 32, the disused industrial park by the train tracks. This isn't to say there's no advancement on the basis of exceptional merit. A light skinned Indian or a wide eyed chinaman might advance as far as Zone 20 with the invention of a perpetual energy device or something.

On a personal note, I'd like to add that it's been real hoot interacting with you Outzone folk. I'm going to miss your quaint earthiness and novel linguistic shenanigans. Don't let anyone tell you you're anything short of utterly adorable.

We already have these zones brother, right now they’re divided by wealth. You will notice that sometimes a minority race will “sneak” into the upper class but if I use the terms ghetto, hood or trailer park you will automatically assume the race that lives in those areas. Same with Chinatown, little Italy, barrio or even Hawaii.

I understand your point, and it’s 100% correct, but the reality is we are living in this type of segregation but it’s predominantly wealth based.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Look at the vietnam war.  Putting blacks on the front line saved thousands of white lives. 

Otherwise blacks don't serve a purpose other than doing mining in africa for the whites.  If blacks never came to America and stayed in Africa, I'm sure the whites would have just gotten mexicans to do the same work.

Today, wipe out all blacks and seriously the results would be less murder, less crime, less poverty and a better country. 

Now is this their fault?  Not at all.  Blacks have been oppressed for a long long time so they had no choice of what happened.

[friedchickendinner]

Why would American Blacks  compare their day-to-day lives to African Blacks anymore than you would? They live in this country, were born in this country, most likely haven't been to Africa and don't know any of their African relatives. Why would they be thinking "at least things are better here than Africa" instead of "these are the circumstances in my life that I'm interested in improving".

Because they call themselves african-americans.

[Flexacon]

It appears I owe Pellius an apology. Carry on Sir

[Griffith]

Why would American Blacks  compare their day-to-day lives to African Blacks anymore than you would? They live in this country, were born in this country, most likely haven't been to Africa and don't know any of their African relatives. Why would they be thinking "at least things are better here than Africa" instead of "these are the circumstances in my life that I'm interested in improving".

They have the same opportunities as everyone else.

[Thin Lizzy]

For those who don’t want to read the thread in its entirety:

[robcguns]

"The role and importance of Black people in American society"

One would expect a blank page and zero replies.

Hahahahahah

[Al Doggity]

Because they call themselves african-americans.

So? A lot of different American groups refer to themselves with hyphenates that include where their ancestors are from. Sometimes they don't even bother including the hyphen.  But asian-americans and indian-americans and others don't base their quality of life decisions on how it would be if they were in India.  They base them  on the life they believe they are capable of having here.

[Al Doggity]

They have the same opportunities as everyone else.

Well, the beauty of things is that if that's how you feel, you don't have to do anything to work towards those ends. If you were so inspired, you could actually work against them. 

[Al Doggity]

For those who don’t want to read the thread in its entirety:

Did you just photoshop your name off of this? 

[Al Doggity]

LIf blacks never came to America and stayed in Africa, I'm sure the whites would have just gotten mexicans to do the same work.

No, actually black slaves were an even better value because they were free, minus room and board.  They were actually investment property in that you could sell them if times got hard, which is something you couldn't do with other employees no matter how cheap they were willing to work. And if a couple happened to have a baby, your investment property paid off dividends.

This immense free work force- not cheap work force, but virtually free work force- was the battery of this country's pre-industrial economy.

Today, wipe out all blacks and seriously the results would be less murder, less crime, less poverty 

Now is this their fault?  Not at all.  Blacks have been oppressed for a long long time so they had no choice of what happened.

Not sure if you are waiting to drop the other shoe, but I agree with this (even the bolded, which I did lightly edit) and this is the point I tried to make to pellius that drove him to start this thread. If you were drawing up plans to create a permanent underclass, you would be hard pressed to come up with a blueprint more perfect than the US one related to black history.


He believes that the purpose of the civil war was to give blacks equal rights and that racism directed at blacks pretty much ended at that time.  There has never been any suggestion that that's what the civil war was about, but if I point that out, it's me dodging. If I point out that there were still huge systemic  challenges following the civil war, that's me being ungrateful and dwelling on the negative.


Not that long ago, I was listening to this podcast about an economic paper that was essentially about tracking innovation through patent law and social forces. (For the sake of brevity, I'll  try to whittle it down to most relevant points) So, the way the paper tracked this was by looking at the number of blacks who filed patents during periods following the civil war and dominant social events happening at the time. So, the thing is there was a huge level of black participation in innovation happening in the period immediately following emancipation. But everytime there was  major discriminatory legislation passed or major social upheaval that magnified blacks place on the social totem pole, there was a huge drop off in blacks filing for patents that didn't show up in the general population. One of the biggest tremors was the aftermath of the Black Wall Street Attack (which has been talked about here before, so I won't go into it.)

The point I was clearly trying to make with my earlier posts is that there were still massive hurdles  that blacks had to overcome  during reconstruction and afterwards. They were specifically designed to impede black progress and many were successful.

[Al Doggity]

This thread is a fine example of a narrow minded person trying to convince fellow narrow minded people that their narrow minded view is the only view possible. The good thing for narrow minded people (at least in their minds) is they can't understand what the hell it is to be anything else than narrow minded and therefore also can't really understand what it is that I'm writing here.

+1

[Griffith]

No, actually black slaves were an even better value because they were free, minus room and board.  They were actually investment property in that you could sell them if times got hard, which is something you couldn't do with other employees no matter how cheap they were willing to work. And if a couple happened to have a baby, your investment property paid off dividends.

This immense free work force- not cheap work force, but virtually free work force- was the battery of this country's pre-industrial economy.


Not sure if you are waiting to drop the other shoe, but I agree with this (even the bolded, which I did lightly edit) and this is the point I tried to make to pellius that drove him to start this thread. If you were drawing up plans to create a permanent underclass, you would be hard pressed to come up with a blueprint more perfect than the US one related to black history.


He believes that the purpose of the civil war was to give blacks equal rights and that racism directed at blacks pretty much ended at that time.  There has never been any suggestion that that's what the civil war was about, but if I point that out, it's me dodging. If I point out that there were still huge systemic  challenges following the civil war, that's me being ungrateful and dwelling on the negative.


Not that long ago, I was listening to this podcast about an economic paper that was essentially about tracking innovation through patent law and social forces. (For the sake of brevity, I'll  try to whittle it down to most relevant points) So, the way the paper tracked this was by looking at the number of blacks who filed patents during periods following the civil war and dominant social events happening at the time. So, the thing is there was a huge level of black participation in innovation happening in the period immediately following emancipation. But everytime there was  major discriminatory legislation passed or major social upheaval that magnified blacks place on the social totem pole, there was a huge drop off in blacks filing for patents that didn't show up in the general population. One of the biggest tremors was the aftermath of the Black Wall Street Attack (which has been talked about here before, so I won't go into it.)

The point I was clearly trying to make with my earlier posts is that there were still massive hurdles  that blacks had to overcome  during reconstruction and afterwards. They were specifically designed to impede black progress and many were successful.

Every pre-industrial economy across the world.

You are viewing the past from a modern perspective instead of from the mentality of the people of that era.

The mentality started changing in the 1800's, but this also coincided with the industrial revolution which made slavery and serfdom in Europe no longer 'necessary' to sustain the economy.

In Europe, before the industrial revolution, if a person was not a noble or freeman they were basically a slave, since a serf was also property of the landowner. This class was hereditary. They weren't even allowed to leave or travel, had to get permission to marry an approve partner and received zero education. In Russia this carried on till the early 1900's.

Europeans have had European slaves and serfs for thousands of years so at the time it was not some exceptional situation in the US, but was already archaic and dying out. This change in sentiment occurred at the same time serfdom was abolished in Europe and this mindset spread to the US.

No one really mentions the millions of serfs who were freed in Europe. Their situation was not much different from a black slave in the US.

[Al Doggity]

Every pre-industrial economy across the world.

You are viewing the past from a modern perspective instead of from the mentality of the people of that era.

No, I'm looking at how the past shaped the modern era. 

Firstly, it was pretty common for other places to have a clear path to emancipation. It wasn't necessarily easy or applied to everyone or strictly enforced, but there was commonly a clear implied path.  That was not true in America. With very few exceptions, if you were a slave, you were a slave for life.

Secondly, America was  unique from what was common in other place in the fact that the slavery system was so race-based that virtually everyone in the country of a particular ethnicity was a slave.

Those differences have a huge impact on what came afterwards.

[Primemuscle]

Nothing to see here. This is just another Getbig racist thread with all the usual folks thoughtlessly acquiescing to each others unflappable, biased and stereotypical viewpoints. Yawn!

[Earl1972]

Nothing to see here. This is just another Getbig racist thread with all the usual folks thoughtlessly acquiescing to each others unflappable, biased and stereotypical viewpoints. Yawn!

and of course you chime in with your virtue signaling while you sit in the comfort of you white upper middle class neighborhood and reminding us all you are one of the few lucky white people to never have a negative experience with them

this is what i want you to do

download the instagram app on your phone or computer, follow a page called "black_pilled" so you see plenty of short video examples of blacks being parasites among innocent white people

E