Bruce Lee - Why you shouldnt be a permabulker - case study

[IroNat]

Bruce Lee simply wasnt Bruce Lee unless he was at a low bodyfat, his whole charisma and aura was different.

That little kid is photoshopped right?

When Bruce is age 5 his Dad looks just like him when he is around 20.

[Darren Avey]

Claimed a 360lb bench didn't he?

[Bevo]

Claimed a 360lb bench didn't he?

Getbiggers claim 405 upright rows

[Bevo]

Nope. You’re thinking of your wife.

I’m 285 of blast-beating brutality, bucko! 

I have a husband, not a wife

[Fortress]

I have a husband, not a wife

Gross.

[oldtimer1]

That picture...

Your average female crossfitter has larger and more muscular arms than that.   

Size isn't everything. I bet Floyd Mayweather has a 14' flexed arms but  he has the power to punch hard. Fans of bodybuilding have a warped image of what it means to be in shape. Looks at the physiques of the lighter boxers, wrestlers and guys in the UFC. Those are real in shape bodies. Bruce Lee was never big but he was in incredible shape.

[Fortress]

Size isn't everything. I bet Floyd Mayweather has a 14' flexed arms but  he has the power to punch hard. Fans of bodybuilding have a warped image of what it means to be in shape. Looks at the physiques of the lighter boxers, wrestlers and guys in the UFC. Those are real in shape bodies. Bruce Lee was never big but he was in incredible shape.

“In shape” can either mean having general health or being specifically conditioned for a chosen sport/physical task.

In the latter way, an elite powerlifter or strongman is as in shape as a marathon runner or MMA competitor.

[Moontrane]

What's your "Information"? (Which you made a point to capitalize as if you have some special insight).

What makes your comment offensive, though not personally offensive, is that you are just giving your opinion base on nothing but a subjective hunch yet you state it with authority as if you have some special insight or inside information that the rest of us do not and if we don't believe you we are just ignorant and out of the main stream as "it is well known" as you claim, that Bruce Lee used steroids when that is just not true. Meaning it is not true that it was "well know" as I don't dismiss the possiblity as I simply don't know. In the sixties and seventies you couldn't just order gear off the net anonymously. You would need to have a source. It was well know that bber like Arnold and Franco would see Dr. Walczak in Sherman Oaks. I would see high level bbers in Dr. Walczak's office during the early 1980s when it was still legal and doctors would prescribed it to you. I am sure if Bruce Lee walked into his office during the sixites and early seventies he would have been outed by now as well as by any supplier making the trip to Mexico and being the local gym supplier selling out of the truck of their car which I've witnessed many times during the 80s. If Bruce was steroids it would indeed be well known and we'd have names of those that witness and supplied it. Bruce Lee didn't work out at commercial muscle gym at the time and was out of the loop as far as gear use and availability.

The source for the steroid allegation is from Tom Bleeker, who was married to Linda Lee for a time.  He claims that he went through Lee’s medical records and found evidence that Lee had been prescribed steroids.  He published it in his book, Unsettled Matters, which you can find as PDF online.  It’s a provocative book that covers aspects of Lee’s life that I’ve not read elsewhere.

I read that Lee did get training advice from Vince Gironda, and I found some corroboration in Vince’s column in MuscleMag Int.  Someone wrote asking for the routine Vince created for Lee, and Vince responded with something like, “You’re gonna have to pay for it just like Lee did!” Vince used less polite language, though.

True or false, we’re left with the inspiration of his accomplishments, image, and example.  47 years gone and we’re still discussing him.

[Kwon]

I have a husband, not a wife

Rory?

[BB]

The source for the steroid allegation is from Tom Bleeker, who was married to Linda Lee for a time.  He claims that he went through Lee’s medical records and found evidence that Lee had been prescribed steroids.  He published it in his book, Unsettled Matters, which you can find as PDF online.  It’s a provocative book that covers aspects of Lee’s life that I’ve not read elsewhere.

I read that Lee did get training advice from Vince Gironda, and I found some corroboration in Vince’s column in MuscleMag Int.  Someone wrote asking for the routine Vince created for Lee, and Vince responded with something like, “You’re gonna have to pay for it just like Lee did!” Vince used less polite language, though.

True or false, we’re left with the inspiration of his accomplishments, image, and example.  47 years gone and we’re still discussing him.

Also in the late 90's, John Little gained access to Lee's weight training files. If you looked carefully at what he clipped and saved, there were a decent number of steroid articles, power rack articles, isometric articles, and articles by Anthony Ditillo (huge volume trainer) in the pile. Just one of those things I remember.

Little would later buy and import from Hong Kong, Bruce's Universal machine. A few years later a York isometric rack said to have been Lee's sold on Ebay (the provenance was good - Lee to Inosanto to Balicki), alas no shipping, and it wound up going pretty cheap.

Here's an article with some neat pics and info in it -

https://www.thebioneer.com/bruce-lee-training-routines/ .

[Moontrane]

Also in the late 90's, John Little gained access to Lee's weight training files. If you looked carefully at what he clipped and saved, there were a decent number of steroid articles, power rack articles, isometric articles, and articles by Anthony Ditillo (huge volume trainer) in the pile. Just one of those things I remember.

Little would later buy and import from Hong Kong, Bruce's Universal machine. A few years later a York isometric rack said to have been Lee's sold on Ebay (the provenance was good - Lee to Inosanto to Balicki), alas no shipping, and it wound up going pretty cheap.

Here's an article with some neat pics and info in it -

https://www.thebioneer.com/bruce-lee-training-routines/ .

That is a neat article.  BTW, Balicki and I were both students in Mr. Inosanto's class.

[Teutonic Knight 1]

 He also ran for distance. Him and Kareem Abdul Jabbar would go for five mile runs.

In Thailand every 12 yo Muay Thai kid run that distance before brakfast !.

Visit Thailand & join 3-6 months jungle training camp & you'll see !.

[BB]

That is a neat article.  BTW, Balicki and I were both students in Mr. Inosanto's class.

Very cool, I enjoy both their work, plus The Dog Brothers, etc....

[Teutonic Knight 1]

Bruce Lee was my idol growing up.

Idiolazed by millions , every one wanted to be like him & train Wing Chun in Hong Kong !.

[Teutonic Knight 1]

He was also using Steroids. This is well known.

Just stop BS !.

[Teutonic Knight 1]

A Profesional Cyclist is also using and has nothing to show. That Argument is Pointless. I am not impressed by his Muscle Mass, but my Information is that he was using. I did not say that to offend you, even if i think you are the furthest away from his physique than a Human Being can be..

..........yours informations 

& I'm not impress by yours "intelligence" 2, perhaps you know Linda  !.

[Bevo]

Rory?

That would be a dream come true, Rory or Henda

[BossBoss]

Depends on the cyclist and their discipline. Track sprinters clearly show. However cyclists are drug tested a lot so the usage is a lot harder to undertake than a casual athlete does. Steroids show up like a 1000W light bulb these days in the drug tests so the drugs of choice are hemoglobin related.

For endurance cyclists in the TdF for example there have been positive testes for testosterone patches, nandrolone, and a few others. They used them for recovery. But these have fallen out of favor for many years due to the aforementioned drug test info. The daily calorie burn for a Tour rider is in excess of 7500 calories a day (1000 cal per hour, 5 hour stages, plus daily BMR needs) and nobody builds mass at that level.

If Bruce used, (and people always toss that "inside info" shit around on here, lol) it didn't do anything for him. He had no need to recover from extreme calorie burns. And he sure didn't have any mass to speak of.  So your theory is specious.

Nobody detects slightly! raised Testosteron that is impossible and will be impossible in the Future. And that
"it didn't do anything for him" is also False. He never wanted to getbig in the first place. Steroids do a lot for you, even gives you speed and strength. So it makes you a better Martial Artist. And you dont getbig if you simply restrict your calories. Also you can train alot longer so that is a huge advantage. He was also in shape all the time and doing lots of stuff. There is a Thing called overtraining that you will hit if you are serious with youre Training.   

[pellius]

The source for the steroid allegation is from Tom Bleeker, who was married to Linda Lee for a time.  He claims that he went through Lee’s medical records and found evidence that Lee had been prescribed steroids.  He published it in his book, Unsettled Matters, which you can find as PDF online.  It’s a provocative book that covers aspects of Lee’s life that I’ve not read elsewhere.

I read that Lee did get training advice from Vince Gironda, and I found some corroboration in Vince’s column in MuscleMag Int.  Someone wrote asking for the routine Vince created for Lee, and Vince responded with something like, “You’re gonna have to pay for it just like Lee did!” Vince used less polite language, though.

True or false, we’re left with the inspiration of his accomplishments, image, and example.  47 years gone and we’re still discussing him.

I could not find this PDF file you mentioned. Since you have seen it perhaps you can make it easy for all of us and simply post the link. I would like to know who this Tom Bleeker is that was able to get access to Bruce Lee's medical records. A person's medical records is private and one must get authorization from the owner. I'm not sure being married to Linda Lee gives you that privilege. I'm not sure even Linda Lee had access to all his personal medical records as I think it would have been mentioned by now as it is quite pertinent to the Bruce Lee scholars out there. Of all the people and organizations obsessed with Bruce Lee, his life, and his death, only this Tom Bleeker gained access to his medical records and the doctors he was saw, drugs prescribed, and treatment rendered. Personal medical records and gaining access to them is quite different from the death certificate which is public information.

[BossBoss]

https://memberfiles.freewebs.com/79/22/75842279/documents/UNSETTLEDMATTERS.pdf

[pellius]

Also in the late 90's, John Little gained access to Lee's weight training files. If you looked carefully at what he clipped and saved, there were a decent number of steroid articles, power rack articles, isometric articles, and articles by Anthony Ditillo (huge volume trainer) in the pile. Just one of those things I remember.

Little would later buy and import from Hong Kong, Bruce's Universal machine. A few years later a York isometric rack said to have been Lee's sold on Ebay (the provenance was good - Lee to Inosanto to Balicki), alas no shipping, and it wound up going pretty cheap.

Here's an article with some neat pics and info in it -

https://www.thebioneer.com/bruce-lee-training-routines/ .

Are you implying that because Bruce Lee read and kept articles on steroid studies and use that he used them? Is there anybody with even a passing interest in weight training and bodybuilding that wasn't familiar with steroid use and read various articles. I certainly read articles on steroids as a teen in Muscle and Fitness. I remember Lou Ferrigno writing about one of this workout routine (probably ghost written) mentioning about how much work and training is involved in being a Mr. Universe and bemoaned the fact that a lot of people think it is just all drugs.

[Moontrane]

I could not find this PDF file you mentioned. Since you have seen it perhaps you can make it easy for all of us and simply post the link. I would like to know who this Tom Bleeker is that was able to get access to Bruce Lee's medical records. A person's medical records is private and one must get authorization from the owner. I'm not sure being married to Linda Lee gives you that privilege. I'm not sure even Linda Lee had access to all his personal medical records as I think it would have been mentioned by now as it is quite pertinent to the Bruce Lee scholars out there. Of all the people and organizations obsessed with Bruce Lee, his life, and his death, only this Tom Bleeker gained access to his medical records and the doctors he was saw, drugs prescribed, and treatment rendered. Personal medical records and gaining access to them is quite different from the death certificate which is public information.

I see see a link to the book above.  I nearly read it straight through when I got my copy 20+ years ago - it's a page-turner.

By medical records I mean whatever an individual would have of/for himself - not necessarily the doctor's file(s).  I have gobs of my own medical records going back decades: medical images; radiologists' reports; blood work; billing statements; STD results; etc.

You make some good points, but be aware that this stuff has been out there for nearly 25 years.  My fellow Bruce Lee nuts and I were gobsmacked at the allegations.
I'm agnostic on the matter, so I have no dog in any fight, horse in any rodeo, or crow in any murder. 

[BB]

Are you implying that because Bruce Lee read and kept articles on steroid studies and use that he used them? Is there anybody with even a passing interest in weight training and bodybuilding that wasn't familiar with steroid use and read various articles. I certainly read articles on steroids as a teen in Muscle and Fitness. I remember Lou Ferrigno writing about one of this workout routine (probably ghost written) mentioning about how much work and training is involved in being a Mr. Universe and bemoaned the fact that a lot of people think it is just all drugs.

Somewhat, to me it is simply an open ended question, and one that we will never know the answer to. Lee seemed to have a decent fascination with training, enough that he was buying power racks, Universal machines, even a high end Russian Rekordnaia Stanga barbell set.

He also clipped and saved more than a handful of articles about steroids, and they were perfectly legal at the time, so one cannot totally say that perhaps he didn't dabble. In my experience, the jump from curiosity to use isn't that large, especially if it isn't illegal and doesn't have a huge social stigma attached to it.

I don't care if he did or didn't.

[pellius]

Somewhat, to me it is simply an open ended question, and one that we will never know the answer to. Lee seemed to have a decent fascination with training, enough that he was buying power racks, Universal machines, even a high end Russian Rekordnaia Stanga barbell set.

He also clipped and saved more than a handful of articles about steroids, and they were perfectly legal at the time, so one cannot totally say that perhaps he didn't dabble. In my experience, the jump from curiosity to use isn't that large, especially if it isn't illegal and doesn't have a huge social stigma attached to it.

I don't care if he did or didn't.

Going by my very subjective perception of Bruce Lee and the type of person he was: very driven and results oriented and, typical of over achievers that want to make history and be remembered forever (remember Arnold in P.I. saying he wanted to be remembered forever like Jesus Christ?), there is nothing, short of immediate death, that Bruce Lee would not have done to achieve greatness. If he had easy access to steroids I have no doubt he would have use them. Imagine being Bruce Lee, looking at yourself and how you appear on screen except being even just 20 pounds of muscle heavier? Still, a twinkish 155 pounds which wouldn't give him that phony bber look and compromise physical and athletic performance but make him look so much more impressive. Just by looking at his physique I don't think he was on steroids. Sure people point to Lance Armstrong and point out that he was as far from a bber as you can get. But Armstrong wasn't doing bench presses, squats, curls, drinking beef blood trying to put on muscle like Lee was. Bruce Lee was definitely interested in putting on muscle. It showed by how he trained and how he presented himself, flexing and being shirtless on screen. Bruce had very little muscle on him. Look how skinny and tiny his arms are. Everyone on this board knows how definition and conditioning can create the illusion of muscle size and development.

But you're right, we will really never know. My beef is the claim that it was "well known" that Bruce Lee was a juicer. That is just patently false.

[galain]

"Well known"? No it's not. Do you have any evidence for this claim? You just made that up. Nobody was talking about steroid use at that time nor was it mentioned after he died except by those who think it is impossible to have abs without drugs. Just go to any inner-city basketball court and see how many crack addict nigs that don't train and only eat fast food crap with physiques more ripped and developed than Bruce Lee.

5'6" , 135 lbs, training like a maniac everyday and he can't possibly have that kind of massive development and definition without gear.

Oh brother. 

It IS well known he was juicing. Joe Lewis is on recored somewhere as saying like "that's what you look like when you take steroids and don't eat." This is no secret and even in the early 80's in Chinese martial arts circles people would mock him for juicing. In fact, I think Matt Polly's recent book documents this.