Paul Dilette - Freak

[pellius]

Come on, its all bullshit, I have watched Dorians video, sure he trains hard, but he only does sets and reps to failure, many, many people train exactly the same way, some people just breeze through workouts and look fantastic

You lift things up you put them down, genetics decides the rest.


Take a weight and rep out until you cant do another rep, who cant do that?

About 95% of the people training at any commercial gym. Just randomly pick someone and watch them do their set. They will terminate that set when they could have easily done maybe 4 or 5 more reps. The vast majority just go through the motions.

I try to make the point that if you want to progress, you have to, well progress, or at least try. That was one points that Jones made that made the strongest impression on me. This was during the time when all the magazines talked about were sets, reps, and the pump. Very little on actual progression. The point Jones made, that as long as you are doing what your body is already accustom to, that exercise would do little or nothing by way of increasing size, strength, and functional ability. If you can do 8 reps at a certain weight and exercise and just keep doing that 8reps, never trying for a 9th or 10th then it will do nothing to stimulate an adaptive response.

[pellius]

Come on, its all bullshit, I have watched Dorians video, sure he trains hard, but he only does sets and reps to failure, many, many people train exactly the same way, some people just breeze through workouts and look fantastic

You lift things up you put them down, genetics decides the rest.


Take a weight and rep out until you cant do another rep, who cant do that?

About 95% of the people training at any commercial gym.

I try to make the point that if you want to progress, you have to, well progress, or at least try. That was one points that Jones made that made the strongest impression on me. This was during the time when all the magazines talked about were sets, reps, and the pump. Very little on actual progression. The point Jones made, that as long as you are doing what your body is already accustom to, that exercise would do little or nothing by way of increasing size, strength, and functional ability. If you can do 8 reps at a certain weight and exercise and just keep doing that 8reps, never trying for a 9th or 10th then it will do nothing to stimulate an adaptive response.

[pellius]

Pellius,

You are a smart man.

Read up on the BS of the Colorado Experiment.

Clever marketing by Jones.  Otherwise complete bullcrap.

Having first read about the Colorado Experiment back in 1979 and still fascinated by the subject to this dayyou don't think I have read up, both pro and con, on virtually everything written about the subject in the last 40 years.

It was a serious and sincere experiment. I believe the biggest factors, though not the only ones, for Casey's transformation had to to do was his genetic predispostion, and most importantly, muscle-memory. Rebuilding previously development muscle which I think everyone can relate to. Many, due to the Chinese virus, have been forced to stop training. They soon notice how fast everything comes back once they get back in the groove. I believe that Casey, under Jones influence, exacerbated this process by encouraging Casey to make a more concerted effort to lose even more weight in his depleted and untrained condition. It would not be unrealistic to drop another additional 10 or 15 pounds for an athlete prior to the experiment which could easily be regained in a matter of days along with a corresponding increase in strength.

His weight before being injured I believe was over 200 pounds and when he started he experimented at what I believed was a very concertedly achieved depleted condition of 168 lbs. Many who have experience rapid weight loss for an athletic event know you can gain 20 pounds virtually in one day.

[illuminati]

A Few Questions.

1, Is there most productive & correct way to lift weights for bodybuilding purposes?
2, Are all training methods equal?
3, So doing different exercises won’t affect the shape of a muscle Ever?
4, Is Genetic muscular response to lifting weights The most important Thing?
5, How much bearing does the origin & insertion of muscles have?
6, What about the quality of muscle fibres in a muscle?
7, And what about splitting muscle fibres?

Look forward to some interesting & thought provoking answers.

[IroNat]

Having first read about the Colorado Experiment back in 1979 and still fascinated by the subject to this dayyou don't think I have read up, both pro and con, on virtually everything written about the subject in the last 40 years.

It was a serious and sincere experiment. I believe the biggest factors, though not the only ones, for Casey's transformation had to to do was his genetic predispostion, and most importantly, muscle-memory. Rebuilding previously development muscle which I think everyone can relate to. Many, due to the Chinese virus, have been forced to stop training. They soon notice how fast everything comes back once they get back in the groove. I believe that Casey, under Jones influence, exacerbated this process by encouraging Casey to make a more concerted effort to lose even more weight in his depleted and untrained condition. It would not be unrealistic to drop another additional 10 or 15 pounds for an athlete prior to the experiment which could easily be regained in a matter of days along with a corresponding increase in strength.

His weight before being injured I believe was over 200 pounds and when he started he experimented at what I believed was a very concertedly achieved depleted condition of 168 lbs. Many who have experience rapid weight loss for an athletic event know you can gain 20 pounds virtually in one day.

I can't argue with anything you have said.

Jones made excellent machines too.  He walked the walk.

His theories fall flat though.  You can build a shapely and attractive physique with machines but from a strength and athletic standpoint machines fall short.  One of his selling points was that his machines would develop superior strength vs. free weights.

[IroNat]

A Few Questions.

1, Is there most productive & correct way to lift weights for bodybuilding purposes?

For nattys do what the 1940s and 1950s pre-drug guys did.

For drug users just about anything works.

2, Are all training methods equal?

No.

3, So doing different exercises won’t affect the shape of a muscle Ever?

A little but not a lot.  If you have lousy bicep peak you're stuck with it.

4, Is Genetic muscular response to lifting weights The most important Thing?

Yes and No.  Hard training and proper nutrition is also important. You'll never gain bodyweight if you don't eat enough for example.

5, How much bearing does the origin & insertion of muscles have?

For appearance it is everything.

6, What about the quality of muscle fibres in a muscle?

No idea.

7, And what about splitting muscle fibres?

Genetic like muscle insertion.

[illuminati]

 A Few Questions.

1, Is there most productive & correct way to lift weights for bodybuilding purposes?

For nattys do what the 1940s and 1950s pre-drug guys did.

For drug users just about anything works.

2, Are all training methods equal?

No.

3, So doing different exercises won’t affect the shape of a muscle Ever?

A little but not a lot.  If you have lousy bicep peak you're stuck with it.

4, Is Genetic muscular response to lifting weights The most important Thing?

Yes and No.  Hard training and proper nutrition is also important. You'll never gain bodyweight if you don't eat enough for example.

5, How much bearing does the origin & insertion of muscles have?

For appearance it is everything.

6, What about the quality of muscle fibres in a muscle?

No idea.

7, And what about splitting muscle fibres?

Genetic like muscle insertion.

Ok - Thanks for your replies
I agree with most of what you say - With a couple of exceptions.
Hopefully we’ll get more replies & thoughts.

[illuminati]

Is total muscle isolation possible.
And what with the front delt reference?

How do you figure all training methods are equal?

No response to the other questions?

[Van_Bilderass]

I'm in my sixties and have been training HIT for decades. Force reps, drop sets, negatives, pre-exhaust.... I do it not so much for muscle hypertrophy. I've realize that how your muscles respond is primarily genetic no matter how you train. I do it because I was involved in sports and wanted to develop and be accustomed to pain, exhaustion, and physical stress. I felt it got me in better physical shape and developed a toughness that can prove useful in an individual contact sport. When I would reach positive failure, when I couldn't do another complete rep by myself, then in my mind that is when the set begins. I still often  say that to myself while training. When I can't quite complete the rep and have to resort to force reps or partials or drop sets I would actually say that to myself, "And now it begins"

I've been able to endure it and remain consistent by modifying frequency. Resting more between sessions. Also, having to do just one set to failure you don't have that tendency to "save yourself" for future sets. This is your one and only chance.

When I use to do a more traditional program I would get burnt out, get into a rut, having to train everyday regardless of intensity. Just going everyday gets to be a grind.

I love intensity techniques. In my early 20s I used to do things like this.
Bench press drop set:

405 to failure

315 to failure

225 to failure + a couple of forced reps

135 to failure + negatives to failure

Bar only to failure + negatives to failure

Then I would bring my arms across my body and flex my pecs as hard as I could for 30 seconds. That was it for chest and my pecs would be sore to the touch for a whole week.
You can't do this type of a set for legs or you might end up in the hospital. I did do some hard leg stuff that left my legs sore to the touch for 13 days once. In my teens I had to stay home from school a couple of times because I could literally not walk for a couple of days. Or I could walk on flat ground but stairs were a different matter 

[IroNat]

Ok - Thanks for your replies
I agree with most of what you say - With a couple of exceptions.
Hopefully we’ll get more replies & thoughts.

You should make new thread about this.  It's an interesting topic.

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[BossBoss]

Is total muscle isolation possible.
And what with the front delt reference?

How do you figure all training methods are equal?

No response to the other questions?

Sorry i postet & deleted by mistake.. but i opened a new Thread. And i will Answer all you're questions there 

[oldschoolfan]

I did it exactly as it was taught by Jones, Mentzer, etc.  I still from time to time will do HIT for a couple weeks for a break in my normal routine.  It's not that people don't understand it, but that they do.

humble i dont totally agree with h.i.t  there is no way i would do just one set, but i do agree with the slow reps and maximum contraction

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[pellius]

I can't argue with anything you have said.

Jones made excellent machines too.  He walked the walk.

His theories fall flat.  You can build a shapely and attractive physique with machines but from a strength and athletic standpoint machines fall short.  One of his selling points was that his machines would develop superior strength vs. free weights.

I don't think he ever said that machines would develop superior strength vs. free weights. To me that makes no sense at all. Strength is strength. If we could take out a specific muscle group, say the bicep, and precisely measure it's maximal contractile force. Then give it a few months and apply a method to stimulate hypertrophy and measure it again. You find now the maximal contractile force has increased by 15%. Now you conduct the exact same experiment on the other bicep but use a different stimulus and find that, low and behold, you also increased the maximal contractile strength by 15%. How do you determine which strength increase is a superior increase? A superior strength? Remember, there is a difference between pure muscle contraction, the most precise method to determine the muscles ability to contract, which is the only thing a muscle does, and coordinating those contractions to initiate movements both simple and complex.

[pellius]

I can't argue with anything you have said.

Jones made excellent machines too.  He walked the walk.

His theories fall flat.  You can build a shapely and attractive physique with machines but from a strength and athletic standpoint machines fall short.  One of his selling points was that his machines would develop superior strength vs. free weights.

Furthermore, how do machines "fall short" compared to free weights from an athletic stand point? The primary purpose of resistance training is to improve the strength, and therefore, the functional ability of a muscle to perform a certain tasks. Developing muscle strength is a completely separate issue from developing athletic ability and Jones was very adamant that the two should never be combined. Sprinting with ankle weights, or shooting hoops with a heavier basketball, simulating a golf swing on weighted cables will do far more harm than good. Each individual movement require a precise coordination of very many factors. The closer two movements are to each other the more chance of neurological confusion.

I remember I had to remember two distincit set of numbers as passwords. I had no trouble recalling them when I needed to. Then when my passwords were changed and differed by only one number: 5277 and 5272, I was constantly getting them mixed up. They were so similar that I would forget which one was for which. Neurological confusion.

You practice precise, skill based movements under the exact same conditions as your would in real life and real competition. If you start wearing ankle weights and wrist weights during basketball practice you may improve your conditioning but you will throw off your coordination skills.

An increase in general muscle strength will improve you performance in any physical endeavor.

[pellius]

Is total muscle isolation possible.
And what with the front delt reference?

How do you figure all training methods are equal?

No response to the other questions?

Why can't I find his response to you? Was it deleted?

[pellius]

I love intensity techniques. In my early 20s I used to do things like this.
Bench press drop set:

405 to failure

315 to failure

225 to failure + a couple of forced reps

135 to failure + negatives to failure

Bar only to failure + negatives to failure

Then I would bring my arms across my body and flex my pecs as hard as I could for 30 seconds. That was it for chest and my pecs would be sore to the touch for a whole week.
You can't do this type of a set for legs or you might end up in the hospital. I did do some hard leg stuff that left my legs sore to the touch for 13 days once. In my teens I had to stay home from school a couple of times because I could literally not walk for a couple of days. Or I could walk on flat ground but stairs were a different matter 

LOL! And here we are still at it. When I think of effort versus returns I just ... never mind. We're kindred spirits in this respect.

[pellius]

Sorry i postet & deleted by mistake.. but i opened a new Thread. And i will Answer all you're questions there 

Ah. OK, that explains it.

[pellius]

humble i dont totally agree with h.i.t  there is no way i would do just one set, but i do agree with the slow reps and maximum contraction

Just to be clear, it's one work set where you take that one set to maximum failure. There are two to three sub maximal effort warm-up sets, sometimes more depending how heavy you go. No one jumps right into 500 lb squats. You have to work your way up plate by plate.

And it is not one set per body part but one set per exercise.

[Van_Bilderass]

LOL! And here we are still at it. When I think of effort versus returns I just ... never mind. We're kindred spirits in this respect.

First time I touched weights I tried to see how much I could lift and how many reps I could do. I think it's just genetics like everything else, genetic psychological makeup. Others starting out are "afraid" and try to avoid going too hard. I still remember the first time I wrote down how much I could lift as a kid... it was 75lbs on the bench press. I immediately realised lifting should be progressive. I remember trying to force some friends to also push themselves. Some did and some absolutely would not. They might be capable of 100lbs but would lift 50. If I was capable of 100lbs I would try 110lbs, a little too eager 

[escrima]

Just to be clear, it's one work set where you take that one set to maximum failure. There are two to three sub maximal effort warm-up sets, sometimes more depending how heavy you go. No one jumps right into 500 lb squats. You have to work your way up plate by plate.

And it is not one set per body part but one set per exercise.

Do you squat 500lbs?
Do you work up plate by plate?
can you show us in a video?

[IroNat]

Furthermore, how do machines "fall short" compared to free weights from an athletic stand point?

The answer is not just free weights but how an exercise is performed. 

Balancing the weight while standing involves many more muscles.  Lifting weights while standing on your feet, pushing against an unsupported weight involves the muscles that align and support the spine. 

Machines do not require you to balance the weight because you are pushing against a braced object. 

For example, a barbell squat develops superior strength as compared to a leg press.

A standing barbell press develops superior strength compared to a machine press.

Spend your time doing machine presses and then try the same weight with a barbell.  You'll fail. 

So, it's really the way an exercise is performed.  You could do free weight exercises in a supported fashion and get a less optimum result.

Some NFL teams jumped all over the Nautilus machines when they came out but after a few years of their players getting crushed by teams that used the old standbys (power cleans, barbell squats, free weight bench presses, etc.) those Nautilus machines were relegated to rehab/prehab.

[pellius]

Do you squat 500lbs?
Do you work up plate by plate?
can you show us in a video?

LOL, coming from a coward who makes empty threats and now wants me to post videos when you are too afraid to even post a picture.

Why do you ignore and grow silent when it comes to posting your pic? You post my picture. You post other people's picture. But not yours. Now you want videos of me.