Author Topic: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty  (Read 5917 times)

IroNat

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2021, 10:41:17 AM »
You want my DD214 as well? I never said I was in the Desert I was in Kosovo and Serbia 11charlie Big red 1 stationed in Vilseck Germany deployed with KFOR went to Benning for Basic enlisted during wartime you got a problem with that? Piss off

Bhank,

Would like to see a pic in your camos with your mates.

Also campaign medals and ribbons pic.

I have a close personal friend whose daughter served in Kosovo as an Army Medic and she has a whole room full of medals, ribbons, and citations.

IroNat

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2021, 10:47:20 AM »
Bhank,
Keep on with the TRT.
Those low natural test levels are a biotch.
I'm 63 but haven't needed it yet...knock on my wood.


Howard

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2021, 10:52:10 AM »
Reeves was a well known Dbol and Testosterone user WTF are you talking about. Stop showing pics of anabolic steroid users to justify natural bodybuilding you dumb twat typical fool you want natural athletes you need to go back another 60 years

I was in the army during a war and yes guys on deployment in war zones are absolutely using PEDS
Huh? The 1st steroid known commonly as "Dianabol" was 1st developed in 1955, 1st available in 1956 distribution in the USA didn't start until 1958.

Steve Reeves won the America in 1947 and the Universe in 1950. Therefor it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to have used D-bol when he won his biggest contests.

Yes, some forms of crude testosterone were available when he competed. No proof exists if he used test or not.
Steve Reeves was a genetic freak and that's why he was a great champion.

IroNat

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2021, 11:13:58 AM »
Huh? The 1st steroid known commonly as "Dianabol" was 1st developed in 1955, 1st available in 1956 distribution in the USA didn't start until 1958.

Steve Reeves won the America in 1947 and the Universe in 1950. Therefor it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to have used D-bol when he won his biggest contests.

Yes, some forms of crude testosterone were available when he competed. No proof exists if he used test or not.
Steve Reeves was a genetic freak and that's why he was a great champion.

Testosterone propionate was readily available in Reeves' time as well as the oral steroid Methyltestosterone (trade name Android, Metandren, or Testred).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyltestosterone

"Methyltestosterone was discovered in 1935 and was introduced for medical use in 1936. It was made shortly after the discovery of testosterone and was one of the first synthetic AAS to be developed. In addition to its medical use, methyltestosterone is used to improve physique and performance, although it is not as commonly used as other AAS for such purposes due to its androgenic effects, estrogenic effects, and risk of liver damage."


"It is taken by mouth or held in the cheek or under the tongue."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_propionate

"Testosterone propionate was discovered in 1936 and was introduced for medical use in 1937.  It was the first testosterone ester to be marketed, and was the major form of testosterone used in medicine until about 1960."

----------

The advantage of Dianabol was it high anabolic effect and reduced toxicity compared to earlier anabolic steroids.
Even so it is highly liver toxic.

For an interesting read of early anabolic steroid use check out "The Male Hormone" by De Kruif, copyright 1945.

https://archive.org/details/malehormone00dekr/mode/2up

None of the above is to infer that bodybuilders and athletes used anabolics in those times but it is highly likely some did.

An interesting note about Reeves is that John Grimek noted that he made incredible improvement in his physique in a few weeks when he trained at the York gym for the 1950 Mr. Universe.  Reeves obviously had great genetics.  He also had his famous movie career in the later 1950s when the use of steroids was common.

Steve Reeves Wins the 1950 Mr. Universe with Only 4 Weeks of Training

https://www.enduringaesthetics.com/post/steve-reeves-wins-the-1950-mr-universe-with-only-4-weeks-of-training

"Reeves claims to have gained 17 pounds of muscle during his training and in another interview in the book claims he started at a weight of 198 pounds and the day of the contest weighed 217 pounds for a 19-pound gain. The interviews are not sourced so we cannot be sure when these statements were made. In a 1981 interview with WABBA contest promoter Tony DeFrancisco, Reeves states that his weight went from 190 pounds to 225 during his training at York for a 35-pound gain."   

Griffith

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2021, 12:24:56 PM »
Testosterone propionate was readily available in Reeves' time as well as the oral steroid Methyltestosterone (trade name Android, Metandren, or Testred).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyltestosterone

"Methyltestosterone was discovered in 1935 and was introduced for medical use in 1936. It was made shortly after the discovery of testosterone and was one of the first synthetic AAS to be developed. In addition to its medical use, methyltestosterone is used to improve physique and performance, although it is not as commonly used as other AAS for such purposes due to its androgenic effects, estrogenic effects, and risk of liver damage."


"It is taken by mouth or held in the cheek or under the tongue."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_propionate

"Testosterone propionate was discovered in 1936 and was introduced for medical use in 1937.  It was the first testosterone ester to be marketed, and was the major form of testosterone used in medicine until about 1960."

----------

The advantage of Dianabol was it high anabolic effect and reduced toxicity compared to earlier anabolic steroids.
Even so it is highly liver toxic.

For an interesting read of early anabolic steroid use check out "The Male Hormone" by De Kruif, copyright 1945.

https://archive.org/details/malehormone00dekr/mode/2up

None of the above is to infer that bodybuilders and athletes used anabolics in those times but it is highly likely some did.

An interesting note about Reeves is that John Grimek noted that he made incredible improvement in his physique in a few weeks when he trained at the York gym for the 1950 Mr. Universe.  Reeves obviously had great genetics.  He also had his famous movie career in the later 1950s when the use of steroids was common.

Steve Reeves Wins the 1950 Mr. Universe with Only 4 Weeks of Training

https://www.enduringaesthetics.com/post/steve-reeves-wins-the-1950-mr-universe-with-only-4-weeks-of-training

"Reeves claims to have gained 17 pounds of muscle during his training and in another interview in the book claims he started at a weight of 198 pounds and the day of the contest weighed 217 pounds for a 19-pound gain. The interviews are not sourced so we cannot be sure when these statements were made. In a 1981 interview with WABBA contest promoter Tony DeFrancisco, Reeves states that his weight went from 190 pounds to 225 during his training at York for a 35-pound gain."   

For Reeves, was that not muscle memory? He had also trained for the 1949 Mr. USA and had taken a break from serious training.

''The last time Reeves had seriously trained for a bodybuilding contest was in March 1949 before the Mr. USA contest. This was about 15 months before the NABBA Mr. Universe.''

wes

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2021, 12:34:24 PM »
Do you think bhank would keep that same energy in real life?
Highly doubtful but if so,oldtimer is no slouch.

bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2021, 12:34:52 PM »
Bhank,

Would like to see a pic in your camos with your mates.

Also campaign medals and ribbons pic.

I have a close personal friend whose daughter served in Kosovo as an Army Medic and she has a whole room full of medals, ribbons, and citations.

Is that good enough for you not sure what the fuck your problem is but you are pissing me off

bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2021, 12:37:15 PM »
Huh? The 1st steroid known commonly as "Dianabol" was 1st developed in 1955, 1st available in 1956 distribution in the USA didn't start until 1958.

Steve Reeves won the America in 1947 and the Universe in 1950. Therefor it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to have used D-bol when he won his biggest contests.

Yes, some forms of crude testosterone were available when he competed. No proof exists if he used test or not.
Steve Reeves was a genetic freak and that's why he was a great champion.

You don't think these compounds were available until they were patented and wildy distributed Reeves and Grimeck are both well known users sorry you don't know shit all your decades of bodybuilding fandom and contest and you don't know shit

bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2021, 12:40:59 PM »
Huh? The 1st steroid known commonly as "Dianabol" was 1st developed in 1955, 1st available in 1956 distribution in the USA didn't start until 1958.

Steve Reeves won the America in 1947 and the Universe in 1950. Therefor it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to have used D-bol when he won his biggest contests.

Yes, some forms of crude testosterone were available when he competed. No proof exists if he used test or not.
Steve Reeves was a genetic freak and that's why he was a great champion.

John Grimek and Josh Bosley Ziegler

There are documents describing a connection between John Grimek and Josh Bosley Ziegler, better known as Dr. Ziegler, the Godfather of Dianabol (DBOL). John D. Fair’s research material “Isometrics or Steroids? Exploring New Frontiers of Strength in the Early 1960s”, contains the following quote:

“By the summer of 1954, Grimek was experimenting with a variety of chemical substances provided by Ziegler.”

[The sentence references another material, namely Ziegler Papers, 1954.]

The date here is crucial – 1954. At the time, Grimek was already 43-44 years old and past his prime. Consequently, this is not definitive proof that Grimek took PEDs during the active part of his career.

Nonetheless, primordial forms of the testosterone were available before the 50s.

Testosterone’s Actual Date of Birth

Many believe that steroids didn’t hit the battlefield until the late 1950s, but that assumption is  incorrect as stated in nattyornot.com’s book Potential: How Big Can You Get Naturally.

Testosterone’s birth became public knowledge in the classic paper “On Crystalline Male Hormone from Testes (Testosterone): More Active than Androsterone Preparations from Urine or Cholesterol” published in 1935.

The main downside of the method used up to May 1935 was that the synthesis of testosterone required an enormous amount of animal testicles.  This mechanism made the substance impractical for commercial use. Luckily, a more efficient process was just around the corner.

The same year (1935) two groups of scientists found another way to synthesize testosterone. The biochemist Adolf Butenandt and G. Hanisch of Schering (Germany) were the first to do it.

On August 24, 1935, they published an analysis entitled “On Testosterone Conversion of Dehydroandrosterone in Androstenediol and Testosterone: A Method for Preparing Testosterone from Cholesterol”.

Clinical trials on humans, involving either oral doses or injections of testosterone propionate, began around 1937.

Additional “red pills”

According to the research material “The History Of Synthetic Testosterone” by Hoberman JM, Yesalis CE, the earliest reference to anabolic steroids in a U.S. strength magazine goes back to 1938 when testosterone propionate was mentioned in a letter to the editor of Strength and Health.

In 1940, scientists conducted studies analyzing the effect of testosterone supplementation on human urine as revealed by a document entitled ”Concerning the Metabolism of Testosterone to Androsterone”. The authors are Ralph I. Dorfman and James B. Hamilton. The Yale School of Medicine supported the research. The paper arrived for publication on February 23, 1940.

Conclusion: Thanks to breakthroughs in the 1930s, testosterone “supplementation” made a debut in the 1940s.

And that conclusion is still off my 50 years as we know testosterone elixirs from pigs were already being injected by baseball players in the late 1890s

Oh but not my favorite athlete they wouldn't do that bullshit same fucking lies we have been hearing for 100 plus years now

Griffith

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2021, 12:42:01 PM »
Steve Reeves in 1947.


bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2021, 12:43:11 PM »
Steve Reeves in 1947.



So what you could buy commercially available injectable testosterone propionate in 1937 dudes were documented injecting pig based testosterone as early as 1897

bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2021, 12:48:53 PM »
Like I've pointed out before you have the build of a construction worker. Swinging hammers gives them forearms. Narrow shoulders in clothes no one can tell you work out. Barely touched a weight in a week? Looks like you barely touched a weight in your life.

Keep pretending I am small if it makes you feel better I feel I have proven otherwise

bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2021, 01:00:32 PM »
Both American and German research scientists had identified testosterone and noted its effects as far back as the mid 1930s. CIBA Pharmaceuticals was already targeting bodybuilders with ads for synthetic testosterone in 1947.

Howard

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2021, 01:30:56 PM »
You don't think these compounds were available until they were patented and wildy distributed Reeves and Grimeck are both well known users sorry you don't know shit all your decades of bodybuilding fandom and contest and you don't know shit

I won't even try to argue with that. It would be a lesson in futility at this point. ;)
I apologize for my lack of education and knowledge on this issue .

Good luck on your new job ( next 2 years I believe?)

Congratulations ( again) on solid performance at your 1st contest.
Sounds like you've got your life going in the right direction now.


bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2021, 01:37:05 PM »
I won't even try to argue with that. It would be a lesson in futility at this point. ;)
I apologize for my lack of education and knowledge on this issue .

Good luck on your new job ( next 2 years I believe?)

Congratulations ( again) on solid performance at your 1st contest.
Sounds like you've got your life going in the right direction now.

Why don't you just falsely accuse me of stolen valor again no response or apology for that bullshit I should knock your old ass dentures out

IroNat

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2021, 01:39:00 PM »
Is that good enough for you not sure what the fuck your problem is but you are pissing me off

Don't come and beat me up...I'm an old man!

bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2021, 01:55:17 PM »
Don't come and beat me up...I'm an old man!

You twice falsely accused me of stolen valor I post my actual campaign ID and crickets people get hurt for that kind of bullshit

Howard

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2021, 02:06:48 PM »
Why don't you just falsely accuse me of stolen valor again no response or apology for that bullshit I should knock your old ass dentures out

Huh? I never accused you of "stolen valor" ? In fact I never posted any comment about you in the military .
What are you talking about?

I've been polite and honest with you .
I even tried to give you some sincere,  contest prep advice that you ignored.

Now you get mad over something you made up about me posting ? WTF?

I really tried to interact with you in a decent and honest manner.
You seem to have a real stubborn streak and some deep rooted anger issues.


bhank

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2021, 02:16:10 PM »
Huh? I never accused you of "stolen valor" ? In fact I never posted any comment about you in the military .
What are you talking about?

I've been polite and honest with you .
I even tried to give you some sincere,  contest prep advice that you ignored.

Now you get mad over something you made up about me posting ? WTF?

I really tried to interact with you in a decent and honest manner.
You seem to have a real stubborn streak and some deep rooted anger issues.

Oh wait it was Ironnat on this thread Ha sorry my apoloigies you are completely innocent

Howard

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2021, 02:17:55 PM »
Both American and German research scientists had identified testosterone and noted its effects as far back as the mid 1930s. CIBA Pharmaceuticals was already targeting bodybuilders with ads for synthetic testosterone in 1947.

That's all true, never said it wasn't.
The fact is Dianabol was first formulated in 1955.
It was first available for personal use in 1956.
It wasn't available in the USA until 1958.

Reeves won the America in 1947 and Universe in 1950.
He may have used some testosterone derivatives, but it was impossible for him to have used Dianabol.

IroNat

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2021, 02:18:35 PM »
Oh wait it was Ironnat on this thread Ha sorry my apoloigies you are completely innocent

I just wanted to see your medals from the war, Daddy.

chaos

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2021, 02:32:42 PM »
Why don't you just falsely accuse me of stolen valor again no response or apology for that bullshit I should knock your old ass dentures out
You make a lot of violent threats.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

chaos

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2021, 02:54:14 PM »
I understand and appreciate the sincere reply.

Now, I think you deserve a little honesty on my overall background .
You know most of my bodybuilding background, but that's only part of the story.

I'm 62 and hold a BS Chemistry (magna cum laude), MS Physics and EdD Science Education ( Physics)
I held membership in the ACS- division of chemical education, AAPT ( physics teachers) and Kappa Delta Phi ( education)

I served 4 years active duty in the USMC ( 1979-83 ) but never was in a hot combat zone.
I had a 31 yr career teaching high school chemistry and physics combined with my final years at a small college ( dept of physics).

I'm no world class expert, but, suffice to say I have a deep and extensive knowledge on the history and development
of various drugs.

Obviously, you have some knowledge on bodybuilding and steroids, etc.
I'm not arrogant enough to think I will always know more then you or others on here.
That's just not the case and some on here have some impressive backgrounds too.

But c'mon BHanks,  consider my educational background and 45 yrs experience in bodybuilding with all that judging,etc.
You were willing to admit I was right about NOT dropping all that wt in a drastic last minute rush, right?

I've known plenty of stubborn ,hard headed people /I don't expect everyone to listen to me all the time*.
LOL, I know better* after 31 years teaching students and having been married 3x  :D
Once again, I'm nothing great, but I speak up when I think my ideas are solid.

I trust your current gf is working out and the new job goes well for the next 2 years.
I sincerely wish you well, but remain unsure about your desire to heed sensible advice going fwd.
This has to be about the 10th different version of your life you've posted here.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

IroNat

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2021, 03:06:24 PM »
I think Howard and Prime are the same person.

GymnJuice

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Re: Flat n leanish vs fat n full is basically the options of a natty
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2021, 03:24:07 PM »
Is that good enough for you not sure what the fuck your problem is but you are pissing me off

You keep putting stuff with your personal info on here.  You shouldn't.  Just use the 'paint' program on your computer to black out info like your birthday, and other numbers on things you've uploaded here in the past.